TSN 690 & Other Montreal sports media Thread V

[Kriss E]

Read my other posts in this thread. My facts are simply this: that Subban isn't stupid or naive. He knows what he's doing when he does it. When he did the big announcement about his donation to the hospital without letting the Habs know about it ahead of time, he knew how they would react. The only way he played no role in this is if you believe that he's a clueless idiot who had no idea about what he was doing. Subban is no idiot.

Everything you just stated is an opinion. You think Subban isn't stupid or naive is an opinion, not a fact.
I don't think he's stupid either, but that is my opinion.
You really have no information whatsoever on how or why they went about their donation the way they did. I really do not understand the big uproar it even raised. I blame hollywood with all their movies with conspiracy theories and fake reality TV . Honestly, who gives a flying f*** if the Habs were not involved there? Are you desperate for drama that it absolutely HAS to be about a bad relationship between both entities? It can't possibly be that this initiative was entirely and solely organized and planned by the Subban Foundation, therefore there is no need to attach the Habs and share credit with them...? Does every charitable event done has to be associated with the team? An athlete can't act on his own? If you decided to do a big charitable event, would your work have to be attached to it too? I am guessing not. So why would it be any different for Subban? Because he is a hockey player? Who cares man. It is completely irrelevant. Not everything Subban does has to be attached to Habs or Nashville.
As far as I know, the Cavs were not attached to the "I promise" schools Lebron James created in Akron. During their press announcement, there were two members of the Akron Board of Schools, the City's Mayor, and Lebron James. Oh snap..No Cavs owner or GM??? No other players?!?!?!..Drama! Him and the Cavs must hate each other! Poison in the room!

The Habs were not present because...*drum roll*...This had nothing to do with the Habs. This was entirely PK Subban and his foundation. For some reason, some people absolutely need to have a spin on this, so what was a very noble, kind, human, noticeably act of charity, got turned into a manipulative one with dramatic effect.

There was nobody at this foundation because it did not involve anybody else. Why would Pacioretty be there? or Gallagher? or Markov and Price who we know are his friends? Why would any of them be there if they have absolutely nothing to do with this? To show support? He doesn't need their support. Maybe he doesn't want them to feel oblige to donate or get involed in any way, and as you said, PK is not stupid, he knows any Habs related person could be asked questions about this in the media.

Honestly, it says more about you than anything else. How you jump to conclusion that if no Habs related person was there, then it must be because there was some rift between PK and the team.

This is so silly.

 

[BLONG7]

If Crosby was a Hab, Bergevin and Molson would expect him to defer to them just as they did with Subban. This is why no big name players want to come to Montreal. Because the first thing that gets drilled into your head when you arrive is that you are not allowed and will not be permitted to get bigger than this team's image.

This is very, very true...always have been. The Habs do not know to handle, having a star.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Subban didn't necessarily "badly" want out, but he wasn't going to stay under just any circumstances either. He was fine with remaining a Hab but he was only going to do so on his own terms and the hospital incident was his way of letting the club know that sometimes he was going to pursue his own agenda, an agenda that didn't necessarily involve the club, and he was going to do this pretty much whenever he felt like it. He did not seek nor would he seek their prior approval for every public thing he was planning to do. He had his own brand to market, a brand that did not rely on his affiliation with the Habs to be legitimized.

The Habs brass, of course, could not abide this because for them it's all about who has control. They didn't like PK promoting his own brand independent of the club any more than they liked it over 50 years ago when Dickie Moore started running his own business during the off-season. "Thou shalt have no other gods before the CH" Players who do not genuflect at that altar shall be dealt with.

This is just a more eloquent version of when Toolegittoquit pretends to know what John Tavares thinks of the Habs.

 

[Laurentide]

This is just a more eloquent version of when Toolegittoquit pretends to know what John Tavares thinks of the Habs.

If you choose to believe that Subban is just some clueless rube who was merely a bystander to events taking place in his life and that he was completely unaware as to the effects his actions would have then fine. I guess your need to make PK a victim and to advance your narrative that it was all on Bergevin is more important to you than admitting that Subban was the smartest guy in the room.

 

[417]

Any video of this? Or a summary? Anything would be appreciated.

Turns out it wasn't all that interesting because in addition to Brissett and Lalonde talking, they also decided to make Alain Chantelois part of this panel.

That's when I lost interest...

But before that, I found interesting how Brisset basically said that it's impossible for a pro sports team to be truly transparent with its fans.

Lalonde talked about how Molson/Bergevin are disconnected from reality and fans...they think they can just operate as they so choose because their the Montreal Canadiens and they're basically the only show in town.

He added that that's dangerous because on many levels, they are the only show in town and they can piss off fans because there are always more lined up.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

If you choose to believe that Subban is just some clueless rube who was merely a bystander to events taking place in his life and that he was completely unaware as to the effects his actions would have then fine. I guess your need to make PK a victim and to advance your narrative that it was all on Bergevin is more important to you than admitting that Subban was the smartest guy in the room.

I appear to be made of straw.

I mean, this is just blatantly stupid, really. Can you point to a single post where I've done what you accuse me of doing? But please, offer proof of what you're saying in regards to who Subban is and his machiavellian schemes to get traded or just stop your schizophrenic ramblings.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Turns out it wasn't all that interesting because in addition to Brissett and Lalonde talking, they also decided to make Alain Chantelois part of this panel.

That's when I lost interest...

But before that, I found interesting how Brisset basically said that it's impossible for a pro sports team to be truly transparent with its fans.

Lalonde talked about how Molson/Bergevin are disconnected from reality and fans...they think they can just operate as they so choose because their the Montreal Canadiens and they're basically the only show in town.

He added that that's dangerous because on many levels, they are the only show in town and they can piss off fans because there are always more lined up.

I struggle seeing an organization as image obsessed as the Habs not caring if the fans are pissed off. Bergevin, maybeeeee. But the organization as a whole? No way. They just seem inept and their reactions to certain events indicate they're sensitive to verbal backlash.

 

[Kriss E]

Turns out it wasn't all that interesting because in addition to Brissett and Lalonde talking, they also decided to make Alain Chantelois part of this panel.

That's when I lost interest...

But before that, I found interesting how Brisset basically said that it's impossible for a pro sports team to be truly transparent with its fans.

Lalonde talked about how Molson/Bergevin are disconnected from reality and fans...they think they can just operate as they so choose because their the Montreal Canadiens and they're basically the only show in town.

He added that that's dangerous because on many levels, they are the only show in town and they can piss off fans because there are always more lined up.

The Habs are lacking behind modern times on so many levels it's not even funny.

The way they build this team is seriously a thing of the past. Getting bigger slower guys on the back end who aren't strong puck movers. Focusing on "character" and "attitude" as opposed to skill. I mean, that is such an old school vision.
Aside from the actual roster, Molson said he also felt like they aren't part of the future, which he was right about. The spectacle and entertainment at the Bell center, there is no zero innovation. Haven't been in two years as I moved but from what it sounds like, it definitely seems to be similar to when I last went.
And then there is this transparency thing. They seem to be completely unaware of the times we live in. We are not in the 90s anymore. This isn't even the early 2000s where people had to get used to phones having cameras on them now.
Information is being transported as fast as it ever has, there is a ton of sites just itching to get the next scoop, there is a bunch of other sites who just feeds off rumors, fictional or legit ones, it's irrelevant. They throw anything out there. Deciding to just play the silent game is such a stupid strategy. The Team gets absolutely zero benefits from remaining silent.
There is also a very poor understanding by some people out there who side with the Habs, like Renaud Lavoie, who says there is no way they can divulge us their plan...as if they're going to tell all their competitors about their next moves. Nobody in their right mind expects or even wants Bergevin to tell us which exact players he will be targeting as free agents, trades or drafting. What people expect when they hear more transparency...they mean things like for the Voynov rumor. Instead of refusing to comment, either deny or confirm you had talks. Nobody is asking to know to full details of these alleged talks, his name is in the press, it is linked to teams, admitting whether or not you indeed had a conversation isn't going to screw up any kind of strategy.
When people ask about the plan, it's not the details they ask for, but a general outline like what are your intentions in year 1-2, then 3-4, then 5+...Is the plan to have a contender by year 3. Is the plan to be very active on the free agent front this summer so we can compete again starting next year? Or is the plan to be more patient over the next two years, keep evaluating our younger guys and making room for them, perhaps sign/trade for some more established players if some of interest are available? Maybe the plan is to be way more competitve by year 4-5?
Just a very brief outline of this alleged plan's structure would suffice.

This organization is so poorly lead...

 

[417]

The Habs are lacking behind modern times on so many levels it's not even funny.

The way they build this team is seriously a thing of the past. Getting bigger slower guys on the back end who aren't strong puck movers. Focusing on "character" and "attitude" as opposed to skill. I mean, that is such an old school vision.
Aside from the actual roster, Molson said he also felt like they aren't part of the future, which he was right about. The spectacle and entertainment at the Bell center, there is no zero innovation. Haven't been in two years as I moved but from what it sounds like, it definitely seems to be similar to when I last went.
And then there is this transparency thing. They seem to be completely unaware of the times we live in. We are not in the 90s anymore. This isn't even the early 2000s where people had to get used to phones having cameras on them now.
Information is being transported as fast as it ever has, there is a ton of sites just itching to get the next scoop, there is a bunch of other sites who just feeds off rumors, fictional or legit ones, it's irrelevant. They throw anything out there. Deciding to just play the silent game is such a stupid strategy. The Team gets absolutely zero benefits from remaining silent.
There is also a very poor understanding by some people out there who side with the Habs, like Renaud Lavoie, who says there is no way they can divulge us their plan...as if they're going to tell all their competitors about their next moves. Nobody in their right mind expects or even wants Bergevin to tell us which exact players he will be targeting as free agents, trades or drafting. What people expect when they hear more transparency...they mean things like for the Voynov rumor. Instead of refusing to comment, either deny or confirm you had talks. Nobody is asking to know to full details of these alleged talks, his name is in the press, it is linked to teams, admitting whether or not you indeed had a conversation isn't going to screw up any kind of strategy.
When people ask about the plan, it's not the details they ask for, but a general outline like what are your intentions in year 1-2, then 3-4, then 5+...Is the plan to have a contender by year 3. Is the plan to be very active on the free agent front this summer so we can compete again starting next year? Or is the plan to be more patient over the next two years, keep evaluating our younger guys and making room for them, perhaps sign/trade for some more established players if some of interest are available? Maybe the plan is to be way more competitve by year 4-5?
Just a very brief outline of this alleged plan's structure would suffice.

This organization is so poorly lead...

Not to derail this thread...but there are legit links to the Habs and Voynov?

To the point where the Habs were asked to comment on it?

I'm surprised

 

[Laurentide]

I appear to be made of straw.

I mean, this is just blatantly stupid, really. Can you point to a single post where I've done what you accuse me of doing? But please, offer proof of what you're saying in regards to who Subban is and his machiavellian schemes to get traded or just stop your schizophrenic ramblings.

Since no one other than the principal actors involved know with 100% certainty what went down, the rest of us are left to speculate so definitive proof of anything isn't going to be forthcoming unless or until one or more of the principals decide to talk. Even then, we're only ever going to get their version of events which will inevitably shade the truth in order to paint themselves in the best possible light.

But within the realm of speculation it is possible, given what is known, to formulate an educated guess and determine a likely scenario about what transpired. The best way to make an educated guess is to start with facts upon which most everyone can agree. The scenario I presented presumed that Subban is what people who know him say he is: a shrewd, clever and intelligent person with a good business sense who is in complete charge of his personal affairs and his brand. It also presumes Bergevin to be what he has shown himself to be: out of his depth, thin-skinned, reactionary and more obsessed about the optics of the CH brand than about anything which transpires on the ice. In other words, he represents someone who would be no match for Subban in any battle of wits. Let's be charitable and call Bergevin a wit who only half-succeeds.

Given these known quantities the scenario which I laid out is completely plausible. The only way it doesn't jive is if our assumptions about the actors are off-base. If one assumes that Bergevin is smarter than he looks or, more importantly, that Subban isn't that clever and is just a dumb jock who is floating through life in blissful ignorance of the fact that his actions carry consequences, then I guess my theory no longer holds water and PK is just a hapless victim of circumstance and a vindictive GM. While I am willing to grant that the GM likely is a vindictive idiot who would gladly cut off his own nose to spite his face, I am not willing to go along with the theory that Subban himself is a naïve chump. On the contrary, and as I've already said, PK is usually the smartest guy in the room and he was definitely miles ahead of his adversaries in this particular instance.

Bergy got played, when all was said and done. While Subban couldn't know for certain that his actions would lead to his being traded out of town he certainly knew it was a strong possibility. But he wasn't worried because it was win-win for him either way. He either got out from under Bergevin's thumb for good via a trade or, if he stayed, would have irreversibly altered the nature of his relationship with the club from one of employer-employee to a partnership among equals.

In my view, to believe that Subban is a victim is to believe that he isn't as smart as everyone says he is and/or that he has demonstrated he is. And remember that in order for my scenario to be plausible Subban doesn't need to be a Rhodes Scholar; he just needs to be smarter than Bergevin.

And how hard is that to believe?

 

[Kriss E]

Not to derail this thread...but there are legit links to the Habs and Voynov?

To the point where the Habs were asked to comment on it?

I'm surprised

Not sure who twitted it but it was brought up here. Most teams denied reaching out, Habs refused to comment, and two other teams had not yet responded.
Unless new info came out about this..

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Since no one other than the principal actors involved know with 100% certainty what went down, the rest of us are left to speculate so definitive proof of anything isn't going to be forthcoming unless or until one or more of the principals decide to talk. Even then, we're only ever going to get their version of events which will inevitably shade the truth in order to paint themselves in the best possible light.

But within the realm of speculation it is possible, given what is known, to formulate an educated guess and determine a likely scenario about what transpired. The best way to make an educated guess is to start with facts upon which most everyone can agree. The scenario I presented presumed that Subban is what people who know him say he is: a shrewd, clever and intelligent person with a good business sense who is in complete charge of his personal affairs and his brand. It also presumes Bergevin to be what he has shown himself to be: out of his depth, thin-skinned, reactionary and more obsessed about the optics of the CH brand than about anything which transpires on the ice. In other words, he represents someone who would be no match for Subban in any battle of wits. Let's be charitable and call Bergevin a wit who only half-succeeds.

Given these known quantities the scenario which I laid out is completely plausible. The only way it doesn't jive is if our assumptions about the actors are off-base. If one assumes that Bergevin is smarter than he looks or, more importantly, that Subban isn't that clever and is just a dumb jock who is floating through life in blissful ignorance of the fact that his actions carry consequences, then I guess my theory no longer holds water and PK is just a hapless victim of circumstance and a vindictive GM. While I am willing to grant that the GM likely is a vindictive idiot who would gladly cut off his own nose to spite his face, I am not willing to go along with the theory that Subban himself is a naïve chump. On the contrary, and as I've already said, PK is usually the smartest guy in the room and he was definitely miles ahead of his adversaries in this particular instance.

Bergy got played, when all was said and done. While Subban couldn't know for certain that his actions would lead to his being traded out of town he certainly knew it was a strong possibility. But he wasn't worried because it was win-win for him either way. He either got out from under Bergevin's thumb for good via a trade or, if he stayed, would have irreversibly altered the nature of his relationship with the club from one of employer-employee to a partnership among equals.

In my view, to believe that Subban is a victim is to believe that he isn't as smart as everyone says he is and/or that he has demonstrated he is. And remember that in order for my scenario to be plausible Subban doesn't need to be a Rhodes Scholar; he just needs to be smarter than Bergevin.

And how hard is that to believe?

This is a whole lot of words to say what you've already said before, which is, not much.

To be quick, because I'm at work, to assume Bergevin and Subban are the only two parties involved in the trade is faulty. They both have teams of people advising them, and Bergevin is directly accountable to Geoff Molson. Not only that, but even if PK Subban is some sort of marketing genius - which he's not by any non-hockey standard - he still needs a lot of help to undertake such an ambitious project. With that said, considering Subban's own notoriety and value as a player, we could easily assume that a team would not trade him unless of a major, let's say criminal, mishap. Even less so for a good action - no matter the underlying reasons - like raising money for sick children. Besides, Subban getting traded does not make him a victim - as you so kindly put in my mouth without justification - but I can't help but be amused of you being so certain of what Subban thought and what his intentions were. Again, this is little more than what Toolegittoquit does when she claims that Tavares sees the Habs and doesn't see what us fans see.

 

[sheed36]

Shots fired.

 

[Kriss E]

Since no one other than the principal actors involved know with 100% certainty what went down, the rest of us are left to speculate so definitive proof of anything isn't going to be forthcoming unless or until one or more of the principals decide to talk. Even then, we're only ever going to get their version of events which will inevitably shade the truth in order to paint themselves in the best possible light.

But within the realm of speculation it is possible, given what is known, to formulate an educated guess and determine a likely scenario about what transpired. The best way to make an educated guess is to start with facts upon which most everyone can agree. The scenario I presented presumed that Subban is what people who know him say he is: a shrewd, clever and intelligent person with a good business sense who is in complete charge of his personal affairs and his brand. It also presumes Bergevin to be what he has shown himself to be: out of his depth, thin-skinned, reactionary and more obsessed about the optics of the CH brand than about anything which transpires on the ice. In other words, he represents someone who would be no match for Subban in any battle of wits. Let's be charitable and call Bergevin a wit who only half-succeeds.

Given these known quantities the scenario which I laid out is completely plausible. The only way it doesn't jive is if our assumptions about the actors are off-base. If one assumes that Bergevin is smarter than he looks or, more importantly, that Subban isn't that clever and is just a dumb jock who is floating through life in blissful ignorance of the fact that his actions carry consequences, then I guess my theory no longer holds water and PK is just a hapless victim of circumstance and a vindictive GM. While I am willing to grant that the GM likely is a vindictive idiot who would gladly cut off his own nose to spite his face, I am not willing to go along with the theory that Subban himself is a naïve chump. On the contrary, and as I've already said, PK is usually the smartest guy in the room and he was definitely miles ahead of his adversaries in this particular instance.

Bergy got played, when all was said and done. While Subban couldn't know for certain that his actions would lead to his being traded out of town he certainly knew it was a strong possibility. But he wasn't worried because it was win-win for him either way. He either got out from under Bergevin's thumb for good via a trade or, if he stayed, would have irreversibly altered the nature of his relationship with the club from one of employer-employee to a partnership among equals.

In my view, to believe that Subban is a victim is to believe that he isn't as smart as everyone says he is and/or that he has demonstrated he is. And remember that in order for my scenario to be plausible Subban doesn't need to be a Rhodes Scholar; he just needs to be smarter than Bergevin.

And how hard is that to believe?

Your entire theory is based on a speculation that Bergevin and Subban had beef. Otherwise nothing you just mentioned makes the slightest bit of sense.

As I wrote in my previous response to you. Subban did not involve the Habs for his major charitable donation in the same way Lebron James doesn't involved the Cavs or his teammates for some of his donations.
There is nothing there man. Stop trying to find something to feed this Reality TV way of thinking.

 

[Inkling]

LOL, I wish Tony would shut up about the 'saluting the crowd' business and a couple of days ago he brought up the Carey-didn't-attend-the-contract-extention-press-conference-in-person drama that he was on about last summer. I didn't think we were going to hear about that again.

 

[sheed36]

LOL, I wish Tony would shut up about the 'saluting the crowd' business and a couple of days ago he brought up the Carey-didn't-attend-the-contract-extention-press-conference-in-person drama that he was on about last summer. I didn't think we were going to hear about that again.

Yeah Tony is trying to make something out of something very few even give a **** about IMO. Gallo is giving it to Tony on twitter about this the past couple of days and also with some fans who are buying what Tony is selling. I'm starting to like Gallo more and more.

From a couple of days ago and again today which I posted above.

 

[Chili]

Blue Jay baseball pre-empted tonight on 690 for Leafs hockey.

Who said it was the Toronto Sports Network?

 

[DXStriker]

Tony is being Tony . stirring and stirring being his usual drama queen self .

Price allowed what 11 goals in the entire NY series . Anderson allowed 12 in the first 2 games alone lol

Tony just using whaterver headline and runs with it . Would not surprise me if he started running with excuses of why Tavares wont come to Mtl so he will be a genius when Tavares does not come here lol

 

[417]

Your entire theory is based on a speculation that Bergevin and Subban had beef. Otherwise nothing you just mentioned makes the slightest bit of sense.

As I wrote in my previous response to you. Subban did not involve the Habs for his major charitable donation in the same way Lebron James doesn't involved the Cavs or his teammates for some of his donations.
There is nothing there man. Stop trying to find something to feed this Reality TV way of thinking.

I think what he's trying to say is less about PK Subban should of involved the Habs in his charitable cause...

Just that they should of been made aware of what he was doing.

Now I don't know for sure what happened, but I have heard that the team was completely caught off guard for this announcement.

IF that's true, then I think it's OK to acknowledge that common courtesy would of been for Subban to give them a heads up in a reasonable amount of time before the announcement.

 

[Runner77]

Shots fired.

Shots redirected. Sniper came up with this ...

Translate "Gallo" into English ... you get:

British English: cock /kɒk/ noun
A cock is an adult male chicken.

 

[Runner77]

I think what he's trying to say is less about PK Subban ...

Guys, if you don't mind, can we please keep this thread about sports media?

Thanks.

 

[Runner77]

Tony is being Tony . stirring and stirring being his usual drama queen self .

He's doing just that, picking Trana to win it in OT tonight.

 

[Tighthead]

Tony always picks the low hanging fruit. Having a hot take about a stick salute is easy. You don’t need to be informed or prepared, you don’t need to accommodate nuance. You take an absolute opinion and wrap it in emotion.

Skip Bayless has made a career of it, and almost every market has at least one moron doing it.

 

[417]

Tony always picks the low hanging fruit. Having a hot take about a stick salute is easy. You don’t need to be informed or prepared, you don’t need to accommodate nuance. You take an absolute opinion and wrap it in emotion.

Skip Bayless has made a career of it, and almost every market has at least one moron doing it.

hot takes = ratings

Skip Bayless literally has people who tune in to watch/listen to him because he says the most ridiculous things.

 

[Price is Wright]

I think what he's trying to say is less about PK Subban should of involved the Habs in his charitable cause...

Just that they should of been made aware of what he was doing.

Now I don't know for sure what happened, but I have heard that the team was completely caught off guard for this announcement.

IF that's true, then I think it's OK to acknowledge that common courtesy would of been for Subban to give them a heads up in a reasonable amount of time before the announcement.

PK had asked for the practice off ahead of time. Maybe some players didn't know or management didn't know the size of the charity deal he was doing but I can confirm there was media from the NHL.com at the Atrium before the announcement, specifically for the Habs section. Arpon Basu knew not to goto the practice and spoke to Subban prior to the announcement for quotes to build his story. You know who else was there? Elise Beliveau.

Pretty much the whole city knew something was going on but the Habs had no clue what their own player took practice off for? I mean incompetence is always a fair theory when it comes to this team.

I honestly don't believe the charity had anything to do with Subban's departure. His contract on the other hand did. Bergevin was forced to sign him to what Subban wanted and he knew he had only a year to get it done before the NMC kicked in. If anything pushed Molson to approve it was the media storm over, "I'm not paid to score goals," because if we know anything about Geoff Molson, he listens to the media on all of their hissy fits.