Proposal: Trouba Mega Thread Part VII

[Guerzy]

Meh. Am actually watching the Bruins beating the Rangers 1-0 right now. The Rangers speed is overblown, frankly. The young Jets will likely skate them into the ground tomorrow night.

 

[Maukkis]

No, the question is : Who worths more??

And? Chevy wants a defenseman, not a forward for Trouba.

 

[wintersej]

^^^ I was trying to exercise a lot of self-control and not call that out. Glad someone did

 

[Liferleafer]

Have to think Sweeney needs Trouba more than any other team. And I also believe Chevy isn't going to get what he thinks.

The longer he waits and the more the Jets lose the more desperate he will be to trade his asset as opposed to letting him sit.

Leafs. And yes, I know Canada is out, just responding to the bolded quote.

 

[Benstheman]

And? Chevy wants a defenseman, not a forward for Trouba.

Well he won't get it. At least not as good as trouba.

 

[SCP Guy]

Well he won't get it. At least not as good as trouba.

And now you see why he hasn't been traded....

 

[hockeyheadlines]

No deal here. Trouba wants out of Winnipeg. We'd be taking a chance he'd do the same in Montreal.

 

[Omac13]

I won't get into the trade debate but man the longer Trouba sits out the worse this gets. I still don't think Chevy needs to bend on trade talks yet but if Trouba sits out this year I don't care what you say , the jets will not get the package they want in the offseason. Sitting out a year of hockey don't help anyone especially a 20 something year old kid who is still developing. Add in the fact he made these demands. Teams wont pony up to get him. This is a big 3 weeks for the Jets to get something done. Either get him playing or trade him.

 

[Benstheman]

And now you see why he hasn't been traded....

Yep. You are right.

The other part of the question is : Will he be trade??

You look at the Jets actual situation and you will know.

 

[inthe6ix]

I won't get into the trade debate but man the longer Trouba sits out the worse this gets. I still don't think Chevy needs to bend on trade talks yet but if Trouba sits out this year I don't care what you say , the jets will not get the package they want in the offseason. Sitting out a year of hockey don't help anyone especially a 20 something year old kid who is still developing. Add in the fact he made these demands. Teams wont pony up to get him. This is a big 3 weeks for the Jets to get something done. Either get him playing or trade him.

If he wants to be a cry baby about his role on the team, let him rot from the sidelines.

In this game of chicken, I say Chevy wins and Jake flinches first.

 

[Benstheman]

I won't get into the trade debate but man the longer Trouba sits out the worse this gets. I still don't think Chevy needs to bend on trade talks yet but if Trouba sits out this year I don't care what you say , the jets will not get the package they want in the offseason. Sitting out a year of hockey don't help anyone especially a 20 something year old kid who is still developing. Add in the fact he made these demands. Teams wont pony up to get him. This is a big 3 weeks for the Jets to get something done. Either get him playing or trade him.

And its not like the Jets are a great team. They can't afford to let a great asset sits or not use the return they would get in a trade for him.

 

[Maukkis]

I won't get into the trade debate but man the longer Trouba sits out the worse this gets. I still don't think Chevy needs to bend on trade talks yet but if Trouba sits out this year I don't care what you say , the jets will not get the package they want in the offseason. Sitting out a year of hockey don't help anyone especially a 20 something year old kid who is still developing. Add in the fact he made these demands. Teams wont pony up to get him. This is a big 3 weeks for the Jets to get something done. Either get him playing or trade him.

My guess would be that Chevy has been offered a combination of futures who are not playing in the NHL, and therefore wouldn't be affecting neither team X's nor the Jets' performance this season, and possibly a cap dump of some sort. There's no reason for Chevy to take that offer yet, as there's nothing to lose if he waits till the end of the month. Or, he hasn't seen an offer with anything interesting/good enough in it, and is not trading Trouba for that reason.

The first scenario would also enable Chevy to trade him at the draft (that would save the other team from having to protect Trouba), but it's not likely, given the fact that there are players being exposed in Winnipeg who we'd want to keep protected.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I think it would be a lot easier for Chevy to trade Trouba if not for the expansion draft. An acquiring team would have to make room on their list to protect him. This could expose an additional asset they don't want to lose. So not only does the team have to ship the assets required to acquire him they may also lose a player they can currently protect.

But just read 3 pages of DEFINITIVE statements on how much value he will lose. No one knows. You can't say he will get a great haul and you can't say the package will stink because until the trade is made we don't know. It only takes one team willing to do it and it happens.

The key piece in the trade still needs to be a Jet in 3 to 4 years when the young core should be peaking. Anyone who is UFA in 2 years would be of little value to us. (unless they re-sign)

 

[lomiller1]

The time to do something with Trouba is long past. Now the Jets look desperate and will get less than fair value for Trouba.

Teams that want to acquire him would be the most desperate because after Dec 1 he’ll either have a contract with the Jets or won’t be eligible to play in the NHL this year. The Jets need to add a D like Trouba, it’s a noticeable gap in their roster, but if that’s not on the table there is no pressure to make a deal on their side.

 

[Whileee]

With Carlo exceeding expectations and the best prospect in the system being a RHD, I'm not sure that is true anymore.

Interesting.

Apparent needs will fluctuate. Some teams look like they need a top-end D even more than before (e.g. Detroit).

From the Jets perspective, with Morrissey having a fantastic season so far on LD on the first pair, I could see the Jets looking for a package that doesn't hinge on a top LHD.

 

[Whileee]

Teams that want to acquire him would be the most desperate because after Dec 1 he’ll either have a contract with the Jets or won’t be eligible to play in the NHL this year. The Jets need to add a D like Trouba, it’s a noticeable gap in their roster, but if that’s not on the table there is no pressure to make a deal on their side.

Morrissey's emergence has reduced the need on the Jets' side. Right now, they feel the pinch with Myers injured, but it looks like he'll be back this week. In the meantime, Postma is having a very strong season on RD (not a surprise to many Jets fans), so he'll be fine on the 3rd pairing.

Morrissey-Byfuglien
Enstrom-Myers
Chiarot-Postma

That's not terrible, considering the strong early season play of Morrissey, Myers and Postma.

 

[Liferleafer]

Teams that want to acquire him would be the most desperate because after Dec 1 he’ll either have a contract with the Jets or won’t be eligible to play in the NHL this year. The Jets need to add a D like Trouba, it’s a noticeable gap in their roster, but if that’s not on the table there is no pressure to make a deal on their side.

I understand that management is behind Chevy in this situation. I do however disagree that teams looking to acquire have more pressure than the Jets. Right now, (and yes it's early) the Jets are 1 point out of a wildcard and clearly have needs. If Trouba refuses to sign by Dec 1st, and sits, that doesn't damage any other team but Winnepeg. Are the Jets really OK running with the roster as is? Or should they accept the best offer for Trouba and upgrade areas of need? It's clear that Chevy won't be getting his original ask....and with every Rangers win, the need for them decreases, as well as other teams. Will the Wings increase their offer? Maybe...but they won't match Chevy's demand....that's a sideways move.

I could totally be wrong, but if Chevy holds tight and Trouba sits....i wonder what is said if the team fails this season.

 

[lomiller1]

Interesting.

Apparent needs will fluctuate. Some teams look like they need a top-end D even more than before (e.g. Detroit).

From the Jets perspective, with Morrissey having a fantastic season so far on LD on the first pair, I could see the Jets looking for a package that doesn't hinge on a top LHD.

They still need someone who’s better in their own end. Morrissey is probably our second best defensive D. Enstrom is our best and has limitations against bigger players. Buff, Myers, Postma, Chiarot and Stuart are all weak to bad defensively. We need Trouba because he the only D we have that excels in both ends of the ice in all situations.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

I understand that management is behind Chevy in this situation. I do however disagree that teams looking to acquire have more pressure than the Jets. Right now, (and yes it's early) the Jets are 1 point out of a wildcard and clearly have needs. If Trouba refuses to sign by Dec 1st, and sits, that doesn't damage any other team but Winnepeg. Are the Jets really OK running with the roster as is? Or should they accept the best offer for Trouba and upgrade areas of need? It's clear that Chevy won't be getting his original ask....and with every Rangers win, the need for them decreases, as well as other teams. Will the Wings increase their offer? Maybe...but they won't match Chevy's demand....that's a sideways move.

I could totally be wrong, but if Chevy holds tight and Trouba sits....i wonder what is said if the team fails this season.

Right now, they need a goalie that can stop a few more pucks. Even so, pretty much all Jet fans think that they are going to run with Hellebuyck and Hutchinson all year, to see who sucks the least. They likely won't trade for a goalie.

I don't see any forward needs to be honest, other than the guys like Little and Perreault coming off IR.

The Jets are definitely better with Trouba. I'm a big fan of his game, and I think they need him. Personally, I hope he comes back and stays for a long time. If he doesn't, they need to not panic and trade for a quick fix to plug a temporary hole (goalie, centre). Ideally, a young defenceman that is NHL top 4 ready. I don't even care about the LHD / RHD problem, so long as someone can play the off side.

If they fail? Chalk it up to another "development year". Hey, we're Jets fans, we're used to development years.

 

[Liferleafer]

Right now, they need a goalie that can stop a few more pucks. Even so, pretty much all Jet fans think that they are going to run with Hellebuyck and Hutchinson all year, to see who sucks the least. They likely won't trade for a goalie.

I don't see any forward needs to be honest, other than the guys like Little and Perreault coming off IR.

The Jets are definitely better with Trouba. I'm a big fan of his game, and I think they need him. Personally, I hope he comes back and stays for a long time. If he doesn't, they need to not panic and trade for a quick fix to plug a temporary hole (goalie, centre). Ideally, a young defenceman that is NHL top 4 ready. I don't even care about the LHD / RHD problem, so long as someone can play the off side.

If they fail? Chalk it up to another "development year". Hey, we're Jets fans, we're used to development years.

I agree, my post was contingent on Trouba refusing to sign. And i think you could easily land a young top 4 ready D, that isn't what Chevy originally was asking for though.

 

[CaptainChef]

No, I don't think it would be an "overpay". Miller (and a bunch of Rangers) are benefitting from crazy-high shooting percentages. He's not a point/game player. He's also getting killed in shot metrics (Corsi). I think Miller and Skjei or another good prospect might be okay for Trouba, but it would be a mistake for the Jets to overrate Miller based on the Rangers' hot start offensively (their 5v5 shooting percentage is about 12%, which is ridiculous).

This all the way. Miller is hotter than hot right now; shooting % will return to norm. Skjei has benefitted from an unbelievable start by several NYR players as well.

If all decisions were made based on 12-13 games, we'd have some mighty lopsided trades indeed. In spite of how hot Miller & Skjei are right now, I'd be some disappointed if that's what Trouba was traded for -- as Whileee says, there has to be an add to that to compete with other offers.

 

[CaptainChef]

Agreed. I think Josh's very good play has/will allow Chevy to change his reported ask/need and be much more flexible in accepting a return. IMO the keys in any return are:

- Add a expansion exempt D prospect (ideally left handed).

- Add a good young quality top 6 forward, ideally a centre.

This then allows us to protect 7-3-1, better allowing us to keep our very good forward prospects. If Chevy is open to this type of return, I think the number of possible offers will increase, as will the competition in offers (which is good as the seller). I fully expect to see a similar type of trade done before Dec 1st.

The second part of that is what I don't like. Unless that forward is a C, why do we need another forward. That, plus then we would need to protect that forward in a 7 + 3 arrangement, thereby exposing Lowry, Dano, Armia or someone of that quality to the expansion.

No, I'd still far prefer getting two expansion exempt D prospects over the arrangement you have listed. Still allows us to go 7 + 3 + 1, but gives us much better depth on D (an URGENT need), plus it allows us to protect some of our better F prospects.

 

[CaptainChef]

I don't think the issue is so much that he "wants to play somewhere else" but that he wants to have some sort of say in where that "somewhere else" actually is. The fact that he wants out sucks for everyone. The fact that he wants to have say in where he's moved to is absurd.

Say what -- have you come over to the dark side? Arguing sense just doesn't equate.

 

[CaptainChef]

At least Miller looked like a top 6 forward last year. Skjei would concern me more, he is really struggling with his puck possession numbers on heavily sheltered min. IMO what they probably are is a top 6 W and a bottom pair D, which isn’t the return I’d be looking for from Trouba.

I think that's one of the biggest issues I have with that trade proposal as well. I have no doubt that Miller is a legit forward -- a position player however that we do not need. Is Skjei really a legit top-4 D-man (that's the big ??).

Far rather negotiate a deal for two defensive prospects with legit top 4 upside.

 

[Gardner McKay]

This all the way. Miller is hotter than hot right now; shooting % will return to norm. Skjei has benefitted from an unbelievable start by several NYR players as well.

If all decisions were made based on 12-13 games, we'd have some mighty lopsided trades indeed. In spite of how hot Miller & Skjei are right now, I'd be some disappointed if that's what Trouba was traded for -- as Whileee says, there has to be an add to that to compete with other offers.

Miller scored 22 goals last season. Is he a point per game player? Likely not. Is it possible he has taken the step to becoming a 55-60 point player? Absolutely.

I think that's one of the biggest issues I have with that trade proposal as well. I have no doubt that Miller is a legit forward -- a position player however that we do not need. Is Skjei really a legit top-4 D-man (that's the big ??).

Far rather negotiate a deal for two defensive prospects with legit top 4 upside.

That is what he was billed as. That is how he is playing. He had a slow start to the year due to being really sick near the end of the off season and lost a ton of weight. Now that he is healthy, Skjei is showing us that he is ready to be a top-4 guy.

Not sure at this point I would be comfortable with the Rangers dealing both Miller and Skjei, especially if this JT Miller is here to stay.