Proposal: Trouba Mega Thread Part VII

[Gardner McKay]

Good post. Makes sense. I know the Jets want a young LHD of Trouba's caliber, but that doesn't exist and I REALLY don't want to trade Skjei. I'd be more willing to trade Graves.

It exists, just not on our roster. Skjei is a good defenseman but he isn't there yet. McDonagh isn't going anywhere. What they want, we don't have or won't trade (McDonagh). Doesn't mean we can't get it but it will be tougher for the Rangers to deal for Trouba than other teams.

We make great trading partners with a team like Anaheim or something. Not Winnipeg.

Assuming Toby isn't traded this year or next. The great play of Josh M.

IMO Chevy should trade for a decent top 4 LHD prospect expansion exempt and the best centre roster player (likely a 2nd liner) he can get. This will hopefully mean a replacement for Toby in a couple years and a roster C to help us now.

If this happens I'll be very happy with our return for Trouba. IMO we don't need a top pairing LHD like Trouba in return

So the Skjei + Miller package that we were suggesting before the season started and were told was horrible value...

 

[CobraAcesS]

Assuming Toby isn't traded this year or next. The great play of Josh M.

IMO Chevy should trade for a decent top 4 LHD prospect expansion exempt and the best centre roster player (likely a 2nd liner) he can get. This will hopefully mean a replacement for Toby in a couple years and a roster C to help us now.

If this happens I'll be very happy with our return for Trouba. IMO we don't need a top pairing LHD like Trouba in return

Sure, you guys can have Bigras + Soderberg for Trouba

 

[Hunter368]

I really hate moving Zucc (can you tell?), but what about Zuccarello, Klein and Ryan Graves for Trouba and Burmistrov? :'(

Here's the problem with this offer, Zuc and Klein offer us no long term value. Graves is just a "ok" prospect. Can't see Chevy taking this offer.

 

[Ducks in a row]

It exists, just not on our roster. Skjei is a good defenseman but he isn't there yet. McDonagh isn't going anywhere. What they want, we don't have or won't trade (McDonagh). Doesn't mean we can't get it but it will be tougher for the Rangers to deal for Trouba than other teams.

We make great trading partners with a team like Anaheim or something. Not Winnipeg.



So the Skjei + Miller package that we were suggesting before the season started and were told was horrible value...

Many Jets fans haven't been interested in Fowler. Lindholm is better then Trouba and we ain't trading him for Trouba even if he had a long term contract and said he would like to play here. Unless Jets are interested in Vatanen and Trouba would sign with Jets for Rielly money long term for a sign and trade deal nothing that would work between us.

 

[Hunter368]

Sure, you guys can have Bigras + Soderberg for Trouba

No interest in Soderberg. Thx

 

[CobraAcesS]

No interest in Soderberg. Thx

I figured lol, but he did fit your description.

I do think Bigras + is a good start though.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Many Jets fans haven't been interested in Fowler. Lindholm is better then Trouba and we ain't trading him for Trouba even if he had a long term contract and said he would like to play here. Unless Jets are interested in Vatanen and Trouba would sign with Jets for Rielly money long term for a sign and trade deal nothing that would work between us.

Oh I know. Two things. That doesn't mean their GM has no interest in Fowler and I meant that as just in terms of a trade, we are better partners with Anaheim. Forget us dealing for Trouba and just trade with Anaheim or something.

 

[Hunter368]

So the Skjei + Miller package that we were suggesting before the season started and were told was horrible value...

I can produce at least 5-6 posts of mine stating I would be very happy with Miller & Skjei return (I do not speak for our fan base anymore then you do for yours). Not to mention is it unreasonable for people to change their minds? Plus with the great play of Josh M, our need for a similar ability LHD (as Trouba) is far less IMO (which makes a D prospect & centre more appropriate). IMO the most common offers I've seen discussed (lately) by media and fans are:

Spooner & Lauzon/Carlo/Zboril

Or

Miller & Skjei

IMO I favor the Ranger offer, but would be happy with either. Depending who Boston adds to Spooner they might need to add a pick, but whatever.

 

[Hunter368]

I figured lol, but he did fit your description.

I do think Bigras + is a good start though.

I do like Bigras.

 

[Hunter368]

How many days left before Trouba sits out the season?

Dec 1st

 

[Gardner McKay]

I can produce at least 5-6 posts of mine stating I would be very happy with Miller & Skjei return (I do not speak for our fan base anymore then you do for yours). Not to mention is it unreasonable for people to change their minds? IMO the most common offers I've seen discussed (lately) by media and fans are:

Spooner & Lauzon/Carlo/Zboril

Or

Miller & Skjei

IMO I favor the Ranger offer, but would be happy with either. Depending who Boston adds to Spooner they might need to add a pick, but whatever.

That is absolutely a valid point. I just know what I have seen from a large portion of Jets fans in the Trouba threads. I shouldn't have lumped you in with the rest.

I don't think it is unreasonable at all for people to change their minds. It is just so rare for people to admit they have had a change of heart that you don't expect to see it happen.

 

[Richter35]

I can produce at least 5-6 posts of mine stating I would be very happy with Miller & Skjei return (I do not speak for our fan base anymore then you do for yours). Not to mention is it unreasonable for people to change their minds? Plus with the great play of Josh M, our need for a similar ability LHD (as Trouba) is far less IMO (which makes a D prospect & centre more appropriate). IMO the most common offers I've seen discussed (lately) by media and fans are:

Spooner & Lauzon/Carlo/Zboril

Or

Miller & Skjei

IMO I favor the Ranger offer, but would be happy with either. Depending who Boston adds to Spooner they might need to add a pick, but whatever.

Do you agree that as of today, Miller and skjei would be an overpay for trouba? What do you think Winnipeg would accept from NYR instead?

 

[Hunter368]

That is absolutely a valid point. I just know what I have seen from a large portion of Jets fans in the Trouba threads. I shouldn't have lumped you in with the rest.

I don't think it is unreasonable at all for people to change their minds. It is just so rare for people to admit they have had a change of heart that you don't expect to see it happen.

No problem.

IMO Chevy's original demand was for a similar LHD as Trouba's level.....made before season started. With the great play of Josh M our need for a similar level LHD as Trouba is much less. We are weak in D prospects, so we would/should seek one in trade to replace Toby in two years. So we need a decent top 4 D prospect expansion exempt so we can protect 1-3-7. So this should allow us to get a pretty good two way 2nd line centre in the trade also. IMO Miller & Skjei is a good fit, The Boston trade I listed also is a decent fit but I perfer the Rangers package.

Not sure how this ends, but we don't have much time left to find out.

 

[Whileee]

Do you agree that as of today, Miller and skjei would be an overpay for trouba? What do you think Winnipeg would accept from NYR instead?

No, I don't think it would be an "overpay". Miller (and a bunch of Rangers) are benefitting from crazy-high shooting percentages. He's not a point/game player. He's also getting killed in shot metrics (Corsi). I think Miller and Skjei or another good prospect might be okay for Trouba, but it would be a mistake for the Jets to overrate Miller based on the Rangers' hot start offensively (their 5v5 shooting percentage is about 12%, which is ridiculous).

 

[Paradise*]

Do you agree that as of today, Miller and skjei would be an overpay for trouba? What do you think Winnipeg would accept from NYR instead?

Your scraps

 

[Hunter368]

Do you agree that as of today, Miller and skjei would be an overpay for trouba? What do you think Winnipeg would accept from NYR instead?

I rarely post offers (very rarely) on hfb, so I won't comment. I'll just wait till it's resolved.

 

[Whileee]

No problem.

IMO Chevy's original demand was for a similar LHD as Trouba's level.....made before season started. With the great play of Josh M our need for a similar level LHD as Trouba is much less. We are weak in D prospects, so we would/should seek one in trade to replace Toby in two years. So we need a decent top 4 D prospect expansion exempt so we can protect 1-3-7. So this should allow us to get a pretty good two way 2nd line centre in the trade also. IMO Miller & Skjei is a good fit, The Boston trade I listed also is a decent fit but I perfer the Rangers package.

Not sure how this ends, but we don't have much time left to find out.

I agree with the notion of going for a top young forward and a good prospect on D, mostly because Morrissey has been sensational on LD so far and the Jets would likely benefit from protecting 7 forwards and 3 D.

 

[Hunter368]

I agree with the notion of going for a top young forward and a good prospect on D, mostly because Morrissey has been sensational on LD so far and the Jets would likely benefit from protecting 7 forwards and 3 D.

Agreed. I think Josh's very good play has/will allow Chevy to change his reported ask/need and be much more flexible in accepting a return. IMO the keys in any return are:

- Add a expansion exempt D prospect (ideally left handed).

- Add a good young quality top 6 forward, ideally a centre.

This then allows us to protect 7-3-1, better allowing us to keep our very good forward prospects. If Chevy is open to this type of return, I think the number of possible offers will increase, as will the competition in offers (which is good as the seller). I fully expect to see a similar type of trade done before Dec 1st.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Do you agree that as of today, Miller and skjei would be an overpay for trouba? What do you think Winnipeg would accept from NYR instead?

Therein lies the problem. Just three months ago, the Jets and Chevy were in a position where they could have come out of this difficult situation looking okay- not great, but okay.

They could have- should they have been so inclined- entertained a litany of trade proposals involving younger, less proven assets performing well in camps and pre-season, knowing their continued development would make the whole Trouba affair a bad memory and not an on-going nightmare. Everyone would have praised them for putting team before personal pride, and making the best of a bad hand.

But sure enough, Skjei- a player Jets fans poo-pooed all over, and who would have been excluded from any serious consideration by the organization due to their well-known parameters for a trade- is now playing at a level superior to any Trouba has ever reached, even considering the small sample size.

His story is not unique; Werenski, (PPG) Provorov, (0.5 PPG) Nurse and even Carlo (on pace for 30 points) have all acquitted themselves as NHL regulars who would be a definite boon to the current Jets roster.

Alas, thanks to the constraints Chevy placed on the return he'd accept, he's now likely missed the boat on all of them- not to mention several others hitting an upswing in their development. This same situation is now bound to repeat itself next year, and the year after that should this forsaken affair drag out that long.

At this point, all Winnipeg can hope to expect is a highly-regarded prospect not presently performing well or even at all in the NHL- otherwise why would another team bother- and perhaps a pick or two. In other words, it's the Kyle Turris trade all over again. Kev's on it, and as the clock ticks down to the December deadline, that should be ever the more troubling to Jets fans.

 

[Whileee]

Therein lies the problem. Just three months ago, the Jets and Chevy were in a position where they could have come out of this difficult situation looking okay- not great, but okay.

They could have- should they have been so inclined- entertained a litany of trade proposals involving younger, less proven assets performing well in camps and pre-season, knowing their continued development would make the whole Trouba affair a bad memory and not an on-going nightmare. Everyone would have praised them for putting team before personal pride, and making the best of a bad hand.

But sure enough, Skjei- a player Jets fans poo-pooed all over, and who would have been excluded from any serious consideration by the organization due to their well-known parameters for a trade- is now playing at a level superior to any Trouba has ever reached, even considering the small sample size.

His story is not unique; Werenski, (PPG) Provorov, (0.5 PPG) Nurse and even Carlo (on pace for 30 points) have all acquitted themselves as NHL regulars who would be a definite boon to the current Jets roster.

Alas, thanks to the constraints Chevy placed on the return he'd accept, he's now likely missed the boat on all of them- not to mention several others hitting an upswing in their development. This same situation is now bound to repeat itself next year, and the year after that should this forsaken affair drag out that long.

At this point, all Winnipeg can hope to expect is a highly-regarded prospect not presently performing well or even at all in the NHL- otherwise why would another team bother- and perhaps a pick or two. In other words, it's the Kyle Turris trade all over again. Kev's on it, and as the clock ticks down to the December deadline, that should be ever the more troubling to Jets fans.

Right. We should judge prospects based on a dozen games early in the season. There are plenty of teams that going to turn into huge disappointments. There are going to be plenty of suitors for Chevy when he pulls the trigger on a Trouba trade.

 

[broc]

All the more reason Trouba will SIGN.

There won't be a good enough trade offer on the table for Chevy- and the agent Overhardt will of course realize this- and Trouba will sign a bridge deal for 2 years, with the understanding Chevy will trade him in that timeframe when a trade that MAKES SENSE surfaces. Be it at the trade deadline, at the draft, whathaveyou.

Unlike these trash talkers and "its too late now!" doomsdayers.. this is the logical thing to happen for both the player and the franchise. Make it so.

 

[Hunter368]

All the more reason Trouba will SIGN.

There won't be a good enough trade offer on the table for Chevy- and the agent Overhardt will of course realize this- and Trouba will sign a bridge deal for 2 years, with the understanding Chevy will trade him in that timeframe when a trade that MAKES SENSE surfaces. Be it at the trade deadline, at the draft, whathaveyou.

Unlike these trash talkers and "its too late now!" doomsdayers.. this is the logical thing to happen for both the player and the franchise. Make it so.

That's one possible outcome, but IMO there is another possible outcome via trade as I posted above. Not sure how it ends, but we will know in a few weeks or less.

 

[Dijock94]

In a world where the rangers try to win a stanley cup rather than lay an egg in the playoffs. You like other Rags fans seem to think Skjei has some huge value. A few secondary assists over the course of a dozen games doesn't mean he holds much value at all.

His value is in his defensive game. And his size. And his skating. And his exemption from the expansion draft. And that he already appears to be capable if not solid as a top 4, he just isn't going to unseat McDonagh and Staal

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Right. We should judge prospects based on a dozen games early in the season.

Between this and the argument from the other Jets fan that pace doesn't actually exist, I do wonder how it is you folks think draft choices develop into NHLers. Does your fanbase believe players pop out of nothingness, like a hockey-esque Big Bang? Is that what you're hoping saves Chevy from the Trouba situation?

There are plenty of teams that going to turn into huge disappointments. There are going to be plenty of suitors for Chevy when he pulls the trigger on a Trouba trade.

A shame, then, that time is not at all on his side. He has just three weeks to determine who the wheels will fall off the rest of the way and who is legit. It's certainly possible Skjei or whoever's shine will have faded a bit by then, but not likely by so much that it drastically changes the mind of Gorton or another GM in a similar position.

Trouba, at this point, is a luxury for 29 other teams. He's not going to turn any one of them into a contender all by himself, and as such no GM will be willing to surrender an equal player just for the pleasure of stitching his name on the back of their club's jersey. A team will only give up something that doesn't hurt them; if Chevy continues to insist on that being a young D, it must follow, then, that it won't be one who drastically changes Winnipeg's fortunes, either.

A shame, because had Kev not been on it, I believe this situation would have resolved itself amicably for all parties involved a long time ago. Unfortunately it looks as though any resolution at this stage of the game will be a resounding loss for the Jets.

 

[wintersej]

Frankly, I doubt it. All you guys that figure we're going to eventually cave and give him away at 75 cents to the dollar are the ones that will be disappointed (and left holding your 75 cents when you could have had a top line RHD).

I think the disagreement is on what 75 cents on the dollar is vs full value. McAvoy, Lauzon and a 1st from a team that has missed the playoffs two years running is insane value.