Trevor Timmins - The day they made me draft Louis Leblanc....

[Paul Dipietro]

@TT1 is referring specifically to a trade where he'd be combined with 2 seconds to secure the ability to select Farabee who is, in fairness to TT1, a very good prospect.

This is not a bad suggestion. My only disagreement with it is the target, as I do consider it a pretty hefty price to pay. But then again he likes Farabee more than me, and he's made more than a few good calls in the past. I'm not even sure how a debate over McCarron/Rychel's ****tiness erupted.

Figured as much. Nice to know that a few of us agree that we can't just throw him away (at least not yet).

 

[Goldenhands]

I guess you didn’t watch this season then? Those were issues at 20 years old, certainly not today. He’s clearly faster, more confident and stronger. And this is coming from a guy who thought he was done last year, I had zero hope with him and he completely blew me away this season.

Scherbak had some decent shifts offensively and some flashy moments where you clearly could see some real skills from him but thats not something new for me, he has been doing it in the AHL the whole year , my problem with Scherbak is his overall inconsistentcy and even if he is improved physically compared to last year, it still remains a major issue like it or not.. Once he gets going, his speed is fine but footspeed
remains an issue, Scherbak can look good offensively when he has time and space to make plays, otherwise he is easy to check and separate from the puck... There is also the lack of stamina, when Scherbak try to play a 200 ft game, he gets tired pretty quickly, that why you will see him float sometimes, its not a lack of willingness to get fully engaged, his body just cant support a such tempo... my only hope that Scherbak becomes more than a filler in the NHL is his injury history, what might have slowed down his development a good bit, that being said, he still is waiver eligible next year, so clock is running fast...

 

[GREMLIN]

I was very public in calling Scherbak a future bust two summers ago, he surprised me this year, still think he’s too weak to be a good NHLer but giving up on him now that he showed great flashes in the NHL would be beyond moronic.

 

[montreal]

I would be surprised if McCarron had more value than a 4th.

agreed

I'm sure they'd accept any offer for Big Mac at this point, possibly for Scherbak too. I don't know if it'll amount to much though. Even the latter is kind of a diminished asset now, might as well keep him one more year and see if he finally figures the game out .

I would give them the DLR treatment, carry them all year and see how it goes, since we likely will stink again might as well stink with young players and hope they improve.

I be surprised If he was claimed on the waiver ...

If he wasn't a 1st round pick, I'd say he easily clears, with the way he's played in the NHL/AHL I could see him clearing unless someone like Burke in Calgary wants him for his truculence.

witch tool ? he is taller ? his coffee his better ? he makes good cookies ? he is a nice guy in the room ? Because Mccarron and tools doesn't fit

McCarron's at his best in front of the goalie, screening as he's so hard to move (at least in the AHL as I didn't see much of him in the NHL this year) he can setup plays as he's an underrated playmaker but it's hard to setup plays when you have ECHLers as wingers. He can have a really good physical game and a solid defensive game while being ok on draws.

At this point in his carreer and development, Scherbak has basically no value on the market IMO, his lack of overall strength, especially lower body and lack of agility + foot speed makes him way too easy to play against, not only that but his deciion making and capacities to play in tight are still too deficient... He is way too inconsistent and unless he has an incredible summer where he comes back to camp much more improved, Im not sure he will be a regular next year and I wouldnt be surprised to see him end up in the AHL again..

It's hard to say what value Scherbak has, as he was very good in the AHL, got to think he at least would have some value but it all depends on what some GM thinks of him and his upside.

But according to capfriendly he has to clear waivers next year.

I was very public in calling Scherbak a future bust two summers ago, he surprised me this year, still think he’s too weak to be a good NHLer but giving up on him now that he showed great flashes in the NHL would be beyond moronic.

so you are saying he'll be traded then.

 

[Goldenhands]

It's hard to say what value Scherbak has, as he was very good in the AHL, got to think he at least would have some value but it all depends on what some GM thinks of him and his upside.
.

Indeed, only 1 GM really high on him could make us fletch a decent return but I agree its pretty hard to estimate the value of an unestablished kid like him..

 

[Habs100]

Indeed, only 1 GM really high on him could make us fletch a decent return but I agree its pretty hard to estimate the value of an unestablished kid like him..

Why do you want to trade him. Play him in the top six and he'll blossom.

 

[Habs100]

Scherbak had some decent shifts offensively and some flashy moments where you clearly could see some real skills from him but thats not something new for me, he has been doing it in the AHL the whole year , my problem with Scherbak is his overall inconsistentcy and even if he is improved physically compared to last year, it still remains a major issue like it or not.. Once he gets going, his speed is fine but footspeed
remains an issue, Scherbak can look good offensively when he has time and space to make plays, otherwise he is easy to check and separate from the puck... There is also the lack of stamina, when Scherbak try to play a 200 ft game, he gets tired pretty quickly, that why you will see him float sometimes, its not a lack of willingness to get fully engaged, his body just cant support a such tempo... my only hope that Scherbak becomes more than a filler in the NHL is his injury history, what might have slowed down his development a good bit, that being said, he still is waiver eligible next year, so clock is running fast...

I thought Scherbak was pretty consistent when he played in the top six, especially with Galchenyuk and Drouin. He's just not yet going to produce when Logan Shaw is his center.

Let's give him time to get used to the NHL before we label him having stamina problems.

Other than that, he does need to get stronger. And, someone needs to tell him that you go into the corner with Byfuglien the same way you go into the corners with anyone else in the league.

 

[Goldenhands]

Why do you want to trade him. Play him in the top six and he'll blossom.

I never said I want him gone, we are only speculating on his value at this point, what is probably not very high anyway, the thing is, if we are rebuilding, its probably better to let him play and see where it goes, but if Bergevin can sign some big names and put a competitive team on the ice again, where does Scherbak fits exactly?

 

[yoteshot]

Prospect from another team, but watching Morgan Geekie these playoffs, I'm all the more disappointed about the Habs not snatching him up. Even as an overager, he was near the top of my list for our 2nd and 3rd round picks and ended up going right in front of Walford. We'll never know if he would have been considered by Timmins there, but he's had another fine season and has been absolute dynamite in the playoffs, now with 14-7-21 in 7 games alongside Michael Rasmussen (10-13-23). 6'2" centre with good defensive attributes, I really wish we could have gotten our hands on him.

 

[Toene]

What bothered me with Bergevins comments about how we always picked late while in the same breath defending his scouting staff... isnt it their job to find talent through the WHOLE draft? Other teams are getting contrbution from 2nd 3rd round picks but we cant manage to pick something all right 25th overall?

 

[montreal]

What bothered me with Bergevins comments about how we always picked late while in the same breath defending his scouting staff... isnt it their job to find talent through the WHOLE draft? Other teams are getting contrbution from 2nd 3rd round picks but we cant manage to pick something all right 25th overall?

well they did have from the '10 to '17 drafts, Hudon, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Lehkonen, Mete, Juulsen, Scherbak, Lernout, DLR, McCarron, plus you have Sergachev, Ghetto, Beaulieu, Dumont in the NHL this year. And that's with crappy development, calling up players too soon, poor decisions in the AHL, benching kids for one mistake (MT), or putting them in bad spots (Galchenyuk 4th line, with DLR, etc.., Scherbak with waivers Shaw etc..)

 

[1909]

What bothered me with Bergevins comments about how we always picked late while in the same breath defending his scouting staff... isnt it their job to find talent through the WHOLE draft? Other teams are getting contrbution from 2nd 3rd round picks but we cant manage to pick something all right 25th overall?

Nashville is very good at that, as well as TB.

 

[Price is Wright]

What bothered me with Bergevins comments about how we always picked late while in the same breath defending his scouting staff... isnt it their job to find talent through the WHOLE draft? Other teams are getting contrbution from 2nd 3rd round picks but we cant manage to pick something all right 25th overall?

2014 in the third round we took a 6'4" defenceman in the WHL who had 22 points in the season. Six spots later the Lightning took a 5'10" centre in the WHL who had 91 points in the season.

Anyone want to argue it's too early to say that Lernout was the "best player available" when Brayden Point was right there?

 

[Montreal Impact FC]

can someone tell me who could replace timmins and do a better job?

can someone tell me a team with amazing drafts who didnt have multiple busts over a 10 year span?

if you answered to both questions than Im waiting for your answer.

personally Timmins isnt the issue its developement and that aint new.. think avout it Bergevin hired Patrice Brisebois to learn our kids when the guy was often seen as a chocker.. heck he even chocked at TVA. i know he left the organisation but what makes you believe the rest of the crew is better? lefevbre? Carriere? Lapointe? seriously

 

[Whitesnake]

can someone tell me who could replace timmins and do a better job?

can someone tell me a team with amazing drafts who didnt have multiple busts over a 10 year span?

if you answered to both questions than Im waiting for your answer.

personally Timmins isnt the issue its developement and that aint new.. think avout it Bergevin hired Patrice Brisebois to learn our kids when the guy was often seen as a chocker.. heck he even chocked at TVA. i know he left the organisation but what makes you believe the rest of the crew is better? lefevbre? Carriere? Lapointe? seriously

Who can replace Timmins? A lot of people? Take the 30 teams, interview every scout, especially some of the most experienced ones, and maybe they are ready for a head scout job? Did you know Trevor Timmins before he was Trevor Timmins? So if we were able to find Trevor Timmins, why can't there be another one out there? I mean...if Timmins just want to leave for whatever reason, we just sell the team? 'Cause he's so irrepleacable that it's just not worth it anymore?

Yes, every team have busts. It's the nature of the game. But it's not about the other teams. ACtually...it is but not the way you think. In a world where there is indeed less trades compared to before mostly because of the cap. In a world where even if there are trades, quite a few guys have NTC. And in a world where the biggest possibility to improve is through UFA....and the day you realize that whether through trades with players with a NTC or through UFA, Montreal is NOT amongt the favorite place to play....you don't need your Head scout and scouting team to be good. To be just as good as the others. You don't even need them to be great. You need them to be THE best or amongst THE TOP 3 and regularly (meaning, you can't be satisfied with 3 great player in one draft, and 3 more 10 years after....), if you want to compete. With an ownership that won't tank because they need the money to build their skyscrapers, you ALSO can't benefit from high picks. So.....you need the best scouting group to find gems elsewhere. As often as possible. You have no choice. Or else.....we'd be what we are....25 years without a Cup. And not looking good for years to come with kids around us being much better than our kids. And our vets being way less better than the others are.

 

[Whitesnake]

2014 in the third round we took a 6'4" defenceman in the WHL who had 22 points in the season. Six spots later the Lightning took a 5'10" centre in the WHL who had 91 points in the season.

Anyone want to argue it's too early to say that Lernout was the "best player available" when Brayden Point was right there?

Exactly. They went for needs. A stupid, stupid way to do a draft. And that's more my point about Timmins than the picks themselves. The strategy sucks. We keep hearing (mod edit) that late 1st round, there is such a small percentage of players that make it...so what do we do? We go with a need! Can people just realize this? We go for a NEED and the percentage of guys making it is incredibly low.....so how the f*** is a need going to be helpful if there's a great chance that he won't make it?

And on top of that, if the percentage is so slim, and you go for a need, which evidently means that this need is not as good as others after but you give up some talent for needs.....don't people just f***ing realize that you take that slim percentage...and f***ING CUT IT IN HALF?????

Sorry.....sensitive topic here....lolll

 

[Mrb1p]

2014 in the third round we took a 6'4" defenceman in the WHL who had 22 points in the season. Six spots later the Lightning took a 5'10" centre in the WHL who had 91 points in the season.

Anyone want to argue it's too early to say that Lernout was the "best player available" when Brayden Point was right there?

I got a great one for you.

Back in 2012 in the first round, the Lighting have a pick in the top 10, they decide to reach massively on a OHL defender with 18 points in 28 games instead of picking a forward that fell massively from possible top 3 pick to 11. Youre going to tell me Koekkoek was BPA at this point? Literally no one had Koekkoek crack the top 15 that year and they drafted him at 10. Imagine that.

Case by case posting makes no sense, you can make any team look bad this way.

 

[montreal]

I like to cut Timmins some slack on those years where he had only 5 picks and hardly any top 50 picks ('08/'10/'15 - 15 picks, 2 top 55 picks to be exact) but then you look at boston's '14 draft, 5 picks only 2 picks in the top 115, yet they walk away with Pastrnak, Donato, Heinen, and Bjork. f*** me that's sick. But then you look at their '15 draft, 6 top 52 picks and while they got Carlo and DeBrusk plus whatever the rest do but you look at what they could have done and think damn would they be sick.

But it's safe to say since '03 boston has outdrafted us and clearly are developing players better.

 

[Mrb1p]

Exactly. They went for needs. A stupid, stupid way to do a draft. And that's more my point about Timmins than the picks themselves. The strategy sucks. We keep hearing by the apologists that late 1st round, there is such a small percentage of players that make it...so what do we do? We go with a need! Can people just realize this? We go for a NEED and the percentage of guys making it is incredibly low.....so how the **** is a need going to be helpful if there's a great chance that he won't make it?

And on top of that, if the percentage is so slim, and you go for a need, which evidently means that this need is not as good as others after but you give up some talent for needs.....don't people just ****ing realize that you take that slim percentage...and ****ING CUT IT IN HALF?????

Sorry.....sensitive topic here....lolll

Was Gallagher a need? Was Hudon a need? Was Lekhonen a need? Was Mete a need? Was Juulsen a need? Was Sergachev a need?

Timmins couldve picked Jost, Brown, Kunin because the habs need a center badly. What did he do? He drafted another PMD, with a team that had Markov, Subban, Beaulieu...

 

[Whitesnake]

I got a great one for you.

Back in 2012 in the first round, the Lighting have a pick in the top 10, they decide to reach massively on a OHL defender with 18 points in 28 games instead of picking a forward that fell massively from possible top 3 pick to 11. Youre going to tell me Koekkoek was BPA at this point? Literally no one had Koekkoek crack the top 15 that year and they drafted him at 10. Imagine that.

Case by case posting makes no sense, you can make any team look bad this way.

Yeah. The thing is....when Point, Palat, Johnson, Gourde, Killorn, Vasilievky, Nametsnikov, added to Stamkos and Hedman forms your team and one of the best team in the NHL......the stupid mistakes can totally be excused. There are still stupid mistakes. But they win. They look great. And they are fun to watch. We make stupid mistakes and what else are we. Your mistakes will always be bigger if you suck than if you not. Pretty simple.

But the proof is there....when you go for reach....and don't go BPA, you will rarely succeed. No matter which team does it. So if we hvae so many examples....why can't we stick with DA PLAN, and stick with BPA. And even now for us....no reach for a centerman. If we pick 4 superstars that are not C's....in due time, you will be able to pick a C...and a proven C on top of it for one of your stars you just picked.

 

[Whitesnake]

Was Gallagher a need? Was Hudon a need? Was Lekhonen a need? Was Mete a need? Was Juulsen a need? Was Sergachev a need?

Timmins couldve picked Jost, Brown, Kunin because the habs need a center badly. What did he do? He drafted another PMD, with a team that had Markov, Subban, Beaulieu...

Markov that was aging....PK that was leaving and Beaulieu that was sucking....and you thnk that none of those D's were needs? Are all of the players picked supposed to play the year after? Or could you think they would be here 4 years later?

And yep...Gallagher was NOT a need. He was a BPA. And guess what? It worked! Hudon? Nope. Not a need....but the BPA..but guess what? It worked! Didn't you just prove my point? Thing is...how about you use the same strategy in the first round too when chances are the players WILL make the NHL? People whine about the end of 1st round and the percentage of players making it...how about the 5th round? Is there a greater percentage of guys making it from the 5th round than from late 1st? So if you are able to go for BPA in the 5th....how about in the 1st? And everywhere else????

And yes, Mete and SErgachev were needs jsut as much as can think they were BPA. 'CAuse for every sane management team, they all should realize that puckmoving d-men on a team is a need. But it also ended up being BPA's too. And guess what...it works! So how about sticking with a strategy that works?

 

[Mrb1p]

I like to cut Timmins some slack on those years where he had only 5 picks and hardly any top 50 picks ('08/'10/'15 - 15 picks, 2 top 55 picks to be exact) but then you look at boston's '14 draft, 5 picks only 2 picks in the top 115, yet they walk away with Pastrnak, Donato, Heinen, and Bjork. **** me that's sick. But then you look at their '15 draft, 6 top 52 picks and while they got Carlo and DeBrusk plus whatever the rest do but you look at what they could have done and think damn would they be sick.

But it's safe to say since '03 boston has outdrafted us and clearly are developing players better.

Did they really "outdraft" the Habs though? Or is it just development? The only real failure lately i can think of is Kokhlakev who was never given a fair shot and busted because of it. They also have some pretty terrible years.

05, 07, 08, 09 with 25 picks overall, 13 of them top 100, the only NHLers they produced was Sobotka.

11, 12, 13.. 18 picks overall, 7 in the top 100, they drafted Hamilton.

Imagine if Timmins went 7 years with only Sobotka and Hamilton to show for.
43 picks, 20 in the top 100, and all you do is Sobotka, a 4th liner outside of the top 100? Lol.

 

[Whitesnake]

I like to cut Timmins some slack on those years where he had only 5 picks and hardly any top 50 picks ('08/'10/'15 - 15 picks, 2 top 55 picks to be exact) but then you look at boston's '14 draft, 5 picks only 2 picks in the top 115, yet they walk away with Pastrnak, Donato, Heinen, and Bjork. **** me that's sick. But then you look at their '15 draft, 6 top 52 picks and while they got Carlo and DeBrusk plus whatever the rest do but you look at what they could have done and think damn would they be sick.

But it's safe to say since '03 boston has outdrafted us and clearly are developing players better.

Boston can tank. Leafs can tank. But not Montreal. That's BS if you ask me. Molson doesn't want to tank 'cause he knows we won't be there eating his better hot-dogs....Strangely enough, Boston and Leafs will be ahead of Habs for years to come because they racked the high 1st rounders. And Boston was fine with their 2nds and others.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yeah. The thing is....when Point, Palat, Johnson, Gourde, Killorn, Vasilievky, Nametsnikov, added to Stamkos and Hedman forms your team and one of the best team in the NHL......the stupid mistakes can totally be excused. There are still stupid mistakes. But they win. They look great. And they are fun to watch. We make stupid mistakes and what else are we. Your mistakes will always be bigger if you suck than if you not. Pretty simple.

But the proof is there....when you go for reach....and don't go BPA, you will rarely succeed. No matter which team does it. So if we hvae so many examples....why can't we stick with DA PLAN, and stick with BPA. And even now for us....no reach for a centerman. If we pick 4 superstars that are not C's....in due time, you will be able to pick a C...and a proven C on top of it for one of your stars you just picked.

What if the team boasts guys like Mcdonagh, Subban, a center Galchenyuk, Sergachev, Price, Halak, Pacioretty, Gallagher, Hudon, Mete, Lekhonen, Juulsen, Scherbak, Andrighetto...

I agree that reaching for Mccarron, Crisp, Tinordi looks bad. But what if they leave Mccaron in the NCAA to develop like Borgstrom and Gaudette? What if they dont give up on Tinordi who showed promise?

What if they pick BPA and it doesnt work? Leblanc, Kristo, DLR, Fucale, Collberg, Thrower, Reway?

 

[Mrb1p]

Boston can tank. Leafs can tank. But not Montreal. That's BS if you ask me. Molson doesn't want to tank 'cause he knows we won't be there eating his better hot-dogs....Strangely enough, Boston and Leafs will be ahead of Habs for years to come because they racked the high 1st rounders. And Boston was fine with their 2nds and others.

Now were getting somewhere WS, the blame is shifting towards the right people.