Trevor Timmins - The day they made me draft Louis Leblanc....

[Mrb1p]

Markov that was aging....PK that was leaving and Beaulieu that was sucking....and you thnk that none of those D's were needs? Are all of the players picked supposed to play the year after? Or could you think they would be here 4 years later?

And yep...Gallagher was NOT a need. He was a BPA. And guess what? It worked! Hudon? Nope. Not a need....but the BPA..but guess what? It worked! Didn't you just prove my point? Thing is...how about you use the same strategy in the first round too when chances are the players WILL make the NHL? People whine about the end of 1st round and the percentage of players making it...how about the 5th round? Is there a greater percentage of guys making it from the 5th round than from late 1st? So if you are able to go for BPA in the 5th....how about in the 1st? And everywhere else????

And yes, Mete and SErgachev were needs jsut as much as can think they were BPA. 'CAuse for every sane management team, they all should realize that puckmoving d-men on a team is a need. But it also ended up being BPA's too. And guess what...it works! So how about sticking with a strategy that works?

It disproves the theory that Timmins drafts for need and not BPA.

 

[Whitesnake]

Did they really "outdraft" the Habs though? Or is it just development? The only real failure lately i can think of is Kokhlakev who was never given a fair shot and busted because of it. They also have some pretty terrible years.

05, 07, 08, 09 with 25 picks overall, 13 of them top 100, the only NHLers they produced was Sobotka.

11, 12, 13.. 18 picks overall, 7 in the top 100, they drafted Hamilton.

Imagine if Timmins went 7 years with only Sobotka and Hamilton to show for.
43 picks, 20 in the top 100, and all you do is Sobotka, a 4th liner outside of the top 100? Lol.

Boston won the Cup and are who they are right now because of Marchand and Bergeron and Krejci. Then right now, we are talking about Pastrnak, Carlo, Donato, McAvoy, DeBrusk, Pastrnak, Heinen, Bjork. You mix up quantity with quality. Those Bruins picks eats our picks alive. And then they turned Hamilton into a 1st and 2 2nds. And then turned Lucic into a 1st and Martin Jones. And then turned JOnes into another 1st. And people CAN add Price, Pacioretty and whatever in there. Nobody on our front proved to be a playoffs performer compared to Marchand and Bergeron. Nobody.

 

[Whitesnake]

It disproves the theory that Timmins drafts for need and not BPA.

If you read my intial post, I specially talk about 1st rounders. But we can also add the great Connor Crisp pick. Yes, I answered about Lernout, but then I talk about late 1st. Which were McCarron. Which were Tinordi. I have no problem with Scherbak though. Juulsen was a safe pick that was also based on needs. But I'm also referring to the 2007 and 2007 draft that Timmins also admitted to go for needs because we needed D in our pool. Reason why Fischer was picked. I believe they go more for needs. And it's stupid. Never said they NEVER picked BPA though. But the strategy is more aimed at C. And that's where we will be going this year. Just watch.

My point is to ALWAYS go BPA. Always. Unless....you pick top 2, 2 surefire stars, you need a C despereately, you don't need the other position, THEN go with the C. Especially if the guy is ready next year. But the chance that this scenario exists is extremely slim.

I would pick Veleno. I think t his young man has a high offensive IQ. And if he goes 15, he will be picked as BPA. Not a need. But you can't pick him top 5.

 

[Price is Wright]

Timmins admitted in an interview about Cayden Primeau that one of his scouts was going crazy for Timmins to draft him and Timmins didn't want to because he felt the team had enough goalies. Primeau fell to the seventh round and finally took the scouts advice. So he admitted he focuses on need.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Did they really "outdraft" the Habs though? Or is it just development? The only real failure lately i can think of is Kokhlakev who was never given a fair shot and busted because of it. They also have some pretty terrible years.

05, 07, 08, 09 with 25 picks overall, 13 of them top 100, the only NHLers they produced was Sobotka.

11, 12, 13.. 18 picks overall, 7 in the top 100, they drafted Hamilton.

Imagine if Timmins went 7 years with only Sobotka and Hamilton to show for.
43 picks, 20 in the top 100, and all you do is Sobotka, a 4th liner outside of the top 100? Lol.

Its outdrafting for sure. You can't develop a paint can.

 

[Mrb1p]

Its outdrafting for sure. You can't develop a paint can.

Except, the 7 drafts that yielded two NHL players including one 4th liner ?

 

[Mrb1p]

Boston won the Cup and are who they are right now because of Marchand and Bergeron and Krejci. Then right now, we are talking about Pastrnak, Carlo, Donato, McAvoy, DeBrusk, Pastrnak, Heinen, Bjork. You mix up quantity with quality. Those Bruins picks eats our picks alive. And then they turned Hamilton into a 1st and 2 2nds. And then turned Lucic into a 1st and Martin Jones. And then turned JOnes into another 1st. And people CAN add Price, Pacioretty and whatever in there. Nobody on our front proved to be a playoffs performer compared to Marchand and Bergeron. Nobody.

You're moving the goal posts really hard. You're crediting Boston for all those picks and you don't want to credit Timmins for Pac and Price ? Come on.

Again, I'll say it again, list all the picks Timmins made in the same time frame as Boston, so since 2003, and it's not even half as bad as you'd want to admit.

 

[Price is Wright]

Imagine if Timmins went 7 years with only Sobotka and Hamilton to show for.
43 picks, 20 in the top 100, and all you do is Sobotka, a 4th liner outside of the top 100? Lol.

You mean how 2008-2014 all he has to show is Galchenyuk and Gallagher?

 

[Mrb1p]

If you read my intial post, I specially talk about 1st rounders. But we can also add the great Connor Crisp pick. Yes, I answered about Lernout, but then I talk about late 1st. Which were McCarron. Which were Tinordi. I have no problem with Scherbak though. Juulsen was a safe pick that was also based on needs. But I'm also referring to the 2007 and 2007 draft that Timmins also admitted to go for needs because we needed D in our pool. Reason why Fischer was picked. I believe they go more for needs. And it's stupid. Never said they NEVER picked BPA though. But the strategy is more aimed at C. And that's where we will be going this year. Just watch.

My point is to ALWAYS go BPA. Always. Unless....you pick top 2, 2 surefire stars, you need a C despereately, you don't need the other position, THEN go with the C. Especially if the guy is ready next year. But the chance that this scenario exists is extremely slim.

I would pick Veleno. I think t his young man has a high offensive IQ. And if he goes 15, he will be picked as BPA. Not a need. But you can't pick him top 5.

There's absolutely no chances they pick Veleno in the top 5, you're blaming him for something he did not do.

 

[Mrb1p]

You mean how 2008-2014 all he has to show is Galchenyuk and Gallagher?

Conveniently ignoring Hudon, Scherback, DLR, Evans, Lekhonen, Andrighetto and to a lesser extent McCarron, Fucale and Lernout ?

No bias at all around here.

 

[Price is Wright]

Conveniently ignoring Hudon, Scherback, DLR, Evans, Lekhonen, Andrighetto and to a lesser extent McCarron, Fucale and Lernout ?

No bias at all around here.

Hudon: Middle six, unproven
Scherbak: unproven
DLR: fourth liner
Evans: hasn't played an NHL game yet
Lehkonen: Middle six, unproven
Andrighetto: Middle six
McCarron: fourth liner
Fucale: really?
Lernout: REALLY?

When the two best guys there (Hudon and Lehkonen) are pretty much in "Might be as good as Ryan Spooner but time will tell" territory, I don't know why you're bringing bias.

But boy, bringing up Fucale and Lernout. You really got me there!

 

[Mrb1p]

Hudon: Middle six, unproven
Scherbak: unproven
DLR: fourth liner
Evans: hasn't played an NHL game yet
Lehkonen: Middle six, unproven
Andrighetto: Middle six
McCarron: fourth liner
Fucale: really?
Lernout: REALLY?

When the two best guys there (Hudon and Lehkonen) are pretty much in "Might be as good as Ryan Spooner but time will tell" territory, I don't know why you're bringing bias.

But boy, bringing up Fucale and Lernout. You really got me there!

Because the point was: Two NHL players out of 7 drafts for the bruins, including a 4th liner, then you counter with "Well you know Gallagher and Galchenyuk in a 6 years span".

Which is already two better players than what the Bruins have drafted in their 7 worst years, you take the 6 worst years and remove Hudon, who's clearly establishing himself in the NHL, wether thats a middle six or not, it doesn't matter, Lekhonen, who's scored at a 20G pace for two years in a row, Andrighetto, who's produced in a middle six role for two years now, Evans, probably the 3rd best player coming out of the NCAA this year, DLR a pretty much known value as a 4th liner.

See how ridiculous that is ? You're trying to make Timmins look bad a bit too hard. Tell me he hasn't drafted enough quality, I'll sorta agree with you, he didn't do much from 08 to 11, actually, I'd say he did pretty bad with just Gallagher even if he didnt have much picks, but just discredit everything to prove a point ? Come on, this is not the United states government, people are not as stupid around here. I know you're not stupid, so refrain from that, it's annoying as hell.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Except, the 7 drafts that yielded two NHL players including one 4th liner ?

As a body of work since 2003, Boston has clearly out drafted and out developed Montreal.

 

[Whitesnake]

There's absolutely no chances they pick Veleno in the top 5, you're blaming him for something he did not do.

I know he's not. Just saying....stop picking for needs. Go BPA. All the time. Every round.

 

[Whitesnake]

You're moving the goal posts really hard. You're crediting Boston for all those picks and you don't want to credit Timmins for Pac and Price ? Come on.

Again, I'll say it again, list all the picks Timmins made in the same time frame as Boston, so since 2003, and it's not even half as bad as you'd want to admit.

Didn't I say that we COULD add Price and Pacioretty? Add them. Yes, great picks. But Bergeron and Marchand are great picks and maybe even better than Price, McDonagh and Subban. Base on the quality of the players vs the positions they were chosen in. And then you add the most recent picks and that team is up for a long contending era. Are we?

 

[montreal]

Did they really "outdraft" the Habs though? Or is it just development? The only real failure lately i can think of is Kokhlakev who was never given a fair shot and busted because of it. They also have some pretty terrible years.

05, 07, 08, 09 with 25 picks overall, 13 of them top 100, the only NHLers they produced was Sobotka.

11, 12, 13.. 18 picks overall, 7 in the top 100, they drafted Hamilton.

Imagine if Timmins went 7 years with only Sobotka and Hamilton to show for.
43 picks, 20 in the top 100, and all you do is Sobotka, a 4th liner outside of the top 100? Lol.

well I didn't go and add up all the pick they had and then figured out where they were picked vs the Habs. But just looking at hockeydb I'd say they have both out drafted and out developed. Yes they had some bad years, just as every scout will and I don't pay much attention to them so I don't even know who has been their head scout since '03. It's good for us that they at least appear to have messed up in '15 as that could have made them perhaps the best team in the NHL had things gone differently. Guess I'm just in awe of that '14 draft.

Boston can tank. Leafs can tank. But not Montreal. That's BS if you ask me. Molson doesn't want to tank 'cause he knows we won't be there eating his better hot-dogs....Strangely enough, Boston and Leafs will be ahead of Habs for years to come because they racked the high 1st rounders. And Boston was fine with their 2nds and others.

Well they did hire MB so either they are tanking and just aren't saying it or they are tanking by default because MB sucks at his job. I mean who in their right mind would re-sign not once but twice a guy in Lefebvre when he had so little to show for his results.

 

[Mrb1p]

Didn't I say that we COULD add Price and Pacioretty? Add them. Yes, great picks. But Bergeron and Marchand are great picks and maybe even better than Price, McDonagh and Subban. Base on the quality of the players vs the positions they were chosen in. And then you add the most recent picks and that team is up for a long contending era. Are we?

Since 2005
Price, Pac, McDonagh, Sergachev, Galchenyuk, Subban, Gallagher
Marchand, Lucic, Kessel, Seguin, Hamilton, Pastrnak, McAvoy

Is it that much different ? 4 top 10 picks vs 3 too.

McAvoy/Sergachev
Pacioretty/Kessel
Galchenyuk/Pastrnak
Hamilton/McDonagh
Marchand/Price
Lucic/Gallagher
Seguin/Subban

 

[Vachon23]

can someone tell me who could replace timmins and do a better job? Martin Madden Jr

can someone tell me a team with amazing drafts who didnt have multiple busts over a 10 year span?

if you answered to both questions than Im waiting for your answer.

personally Timmins isnt the issue its developement and that aint new.. think avout it Bergevin hired Patrice Brisebois to learn our kids when the guy was often seen as a chocker.. heck he even chocked at TVA. i know he left the organisation but what makes you believe the rest of the crew is better? lefevbre? Carriere? Lapointe? seriously

And sorry but you can't transforme Lada in a Ferrari ! McCarron,Tinordi, De La Rose, Crips had 0 offensive talents ! they where just big and physical ! so we can't blame the development for this..

 

[montreal]

And sorry but you can't transforme Lada in a Ferrari ! McCarron,Tinordi, De La Rose, Crips had 0 offensive talents ! they where just big and physical ! so we can't blame the development for this..

you certainly can aside from Crisp who had a lot of injury troubles but was likely just a terrible pick from the start. But the rest, their development was handled so poorly. From Lefrebvre to management calling them up too soon, to MT benching them for every little mistake (more Tinordi/Beaulieu)

 

[1909]

Timmins is part of the problem. Big time.

And he is answering questions to the media about once a year, at the Draft day. No pressure on him from fans and medias, ever.

MB, Timmins, all the assistant GM's and most of the asst-coaches have all to go + Laval staff + pro scouting staff, too.

 

[Vachon23]

you certainly can aside from Crisp who had a lot of injury troubles but was likely just a terrible pick from the start. But the rest, their development was handled so poorly. From Lefrebvre to management calling them up too soon, to MT benching them for every little mistake (more Tinordi/Beaulieu)

they are 4th liner and where always see like 4th liner or 6th defensemen so OK McCarron Tinordi are not what we think because they are not even NHLer but it's a big drop..

 

[Whitesnake]

Since 2005
Price, Pac, McDonagh, Sergachev, Galchenyuk, Subban, Gallagher
Marchand, Lucic, Kessel, Seguin, Hamilton, Pastrnak, McAvoy

Is it that much different ? 4 top 10 picks vs 3 too.

McAvoy/Sergachev
Pacioretty/Kessel
Galchenyuk/Pastrnak
Hamilton/McDonagh
Marchand/Price
Lucic/Gallagher
Seguin/Subban

Why 2005? So we wouldn't add Bergeron? Or Krejci in 2004? And yes there is a difference. Especially thanks to Kessel's playoff performance. Thanks to Marchand continuous greatness. Of every player we have on that list, NONE are playoff proven. Most of them are indeed very good regular season performers. And then, for Boston, you add the latest picks, Donato, Heinen, Bjork, Debrusk, Carlo....and it's not even close.

 

[Price is Wright]

A bit irrelevant. Habs would've never picked a 5'7 winger in the second round. Although a missed chance at Jonathan Dahlen who Ottawa picked a few picks later sucks considering he looks like a stud.

Aside from Subban almost all of Timmins 2nd round picks have been busts or bottom sixers.

 

[schnapshot]

Aside from Subban almost all of Timmins 2nd round picks have been busts or bottom sixers.

To be fair, between 2007 and 2016, Timmins has had 7 second rounders to work with. Which produced an elite defenseman and a good young player in Lehkonen. Compared to this, the Lightning had 13 in the same period, of which Kucherov is the lone bright spot.

He seems to have gotten something right with Josh Brook too.

 

[Price is Wright]

To be fair, between 2007 and 2016, Timmins has had 7 second rounders to work with.

7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16...

That's 10 years. So he had 7/10 picks.

Nah that's not a to be fairrrrrrrrr*

*Say it like Letterkenny