Trevor Timmins Part III

[deandebean]

Trevor Timmins has been a Senators mole doing damage to this franchise. He's been sent by the Ottawa organisation to make sure we never win anything.

I'M joking.

Or, am I?

 

[Andrei79]

Looking at our prospects this pre-season, he, Churla and LeCrap need to go ASAP.

 

[Belial]

Looking at our prospects this pre-season, he, Churla and LeCrap need to go ASAP.

Serious question, who exactly from those guys you expected to leapfrog Shaw or Byron or even Mitchell?

The guy that I expected to make the team will make the team...

I expected a little more from DLR and McCarron but I didn't think they would push someone out of the lineup.

 

[dre2112]

Just like his picks, Timmins has been a bust since the Pac/McDonagh/Subban draft (Galchenyuk was the obvious #3. Credit to him for Gallagher though).

 

[Chili]

Not a post to you. But Timmins works for a team that almost always has first round picks 20 or lower. It is his job to find good picks in this range. He is paid a lot of money to do this. He has not done so. The evidence is clear. I said 2 years ago that if Mac and Scherbak fail, Timmins should go. I stand by this.

Time for Timmins to go.

I completely agree with this. At the same time, pick players that will do the work themselves. Again, this is on Timmins. He just does not understand hockey players in my opinion. I just don't think he gets it. I just don't think he understands the game.

.

Agree. Above I was just trying to go beyond the beaten path a bit.

Kids either have passion or they don`t. Crosby is a great player not just because of skill, vision, skating ability, strength but off the charts passion for the game.

It`s up to the scouts to know these players Inside out, to not just identify talent but kids who will always continue to work hard to improve, even after they make it.

Right now, teams are watching the future of their teams with the young players they have in camp.

Wonder what future the Habs see based on this year`s camp?

 

[groovejuice]

Not a post to you. But Timmins works for a team that almost always has first round picks 20 or lower. It is his job to find good picks in this range. He is paid a lot of money to do this. He has not done so. The evidence is clear. I said 2 years ago that if Mac and Scherbak fail, Timmins should go. I stand by this.

Time for Timmins to go.



I completely agree with this. At the same time, pick players that will do the work themselves. Again, this is on Timmins. He just does not understand hockey players in my opinion. I just don't think he gets it. I just don't think he understands the game.



You are reaching. That is a joke. Especially as you are not naming the numerous huge misses. And the fact that Habs are a rich team that should be finding great low first round picks in any case.

It's a passionate plea to fire a guy who's no longer in charge of amateur scouting or drafting and hasn't been for a while.

 

[Fazkovsky]

He received a lot of criticism lately

But lehkonen and mete were solid picks

 

[Doc McKenna]

Looking at our prospects this pre-season, he, Churla and LeCrap need to go ASAP.

Scored a homerun with Mete, mostly because Mete(or lehk) hasn't seen Sylvain yet. Development is where our scouting success goes to die.

 

[muzion]

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/...-bruins-stats-defence-carey-price-tuukka-rask

This Heatmap shows that we've been playing simple, stupid hockey under Therrien. The Dale Weises of the world shouldn't have looked this good playing with us. We've played this same system in the AHL, which might be why our prospects who have good hockey sense in their 1st development camp, eventually lose their confidence as time goes on.

 

[Chili]

Based on the 2017-18 opening NHL rosters...

This a breakdown by team of who found the players on the opening rosters.

I`ll use the Habs numbers to explain the format...

Mtl 10 + 11 + 2 + 23

The 10 represents the number of Habs draft picks on their own roster (Price, Pacioretty, etc)
The 11 represents the number of Habs draft picks on other rosters (Beaulieu, Subban, etc.)
The 2 represents the number of undrafted free agents originally signed by the Habs in the league (Condon & Desharnais).

For a total number of 23 players in the league originally drafted or signed by the Habs.

Ana 13 + 11 + 1 = 25
Arz 10 + 9 + 1 = 20
Bos 10 + 13 + 5 = 28
Buf 6 + 17 + 3 = 26
Cal 8 + 8 + 3 = 19
Car 13 + 7 + 1 = 21
Chi 9 + 13 + 8 = 30
Clb 14 + 15 + 3 = 32
Col 8 + 12 + 1 = 21
Dal 9 + 9 + 3 = 21
Det 17 + 7 + 3 = 27
Edm 7 + 17 + 3 = 27
Fla 13 + 13 + 1 = 27
LAK 16 + 8 + 4 = 28
Min 7 + 12 + 3 = 22
Mtl 10 + 11 + 2 = 23
Nas 15 + 12 + 0 = 27
NJD 9 + 6 + 3 = 18
NYI 13 + 14 + 1 = 28
NYR 8 + 11 + 3 = 22
Ott 13 + 13 + 0 = 26
Phl 11 + 9 + 4 = 24
Pit 10 + 13 + 5 = 28
Stl 12 + 13 + 0 = 25
SJS 9 + 13 + 8 = 30
TBL 11 + 7 + 4 = 22
Tor 8 + 12 + 3 = 23
Van 8 + 8 + 4 = 20
Veg n/a
Was 13 + 12 + 2 = 27
Win 13 + 8 + 1 = 22

Note: included the 699 players on opening rosters plus some of the injured players (i.e. incl Schlemko, did not include rookies like Addison and Juulsen or players like Clarkson and Horton).

I`ll add a trend list based on the last 10 years.

 

[Chili]

I`ll add a trend list based on the last 10 years.

A further breakdown of the above...

The team number represents the total of players on opening rosters by team drafted or signed (undrafted free agents) for the last ten years, 2008 t0 2017

Habs total of 12 includes Sergachev, De La Rose, Lekhonen, Andrighetto, Galchenyuk, Hudon, Mete, Beaulieu, Gallagher, Dumont, Condon and Desharnais).

Ana 18
Arz 14
Bos 18
Buf 18
Cal 13
Car 16
Chi 21
Clb 23
Col 11
Dal 13
Det 17
Edm 17
Fla 22
LAK 18
Min 14
Mtl 12
Nas 17
NJD 14
NYI 22
NYR 12
Ott 19
Phl 17
Pit 15
STL 13
SJS 19
TBL 21
Tor 14
Van 11
Veg 0
Was 18
Win 15

Excluding Vegas, notice the two teams with the lowest totals were Colorado and Vancouver.

 

[1909]

A further breakdown of the above...

The team number represents the total of players on opening rosters by team drafted or signed (undrafted free agents) for the last ten years, 2008 t0 2017

Habs total of 12 includes Sergachev, De La Rose, Lekhonen, Andrighetto, Galchenyuk, Hudon, Mete, Beaulieu, Gallagher, Dumont, Condon and Desharnais).

Ana 18
Arz 14
Bos 18
Buf 18
Cal 13
Car 16
Chi 21
Clb 23
Col 11
Dal 13
Det 17
Edm 17
Fla 22
LAK 18
Min 14
Mtl 12
Nas 17
NJD 14
NYI 22
NYR 12
Ott 19
Phl 17
Pit 15
STL 13
SJS 19
TBL 21
Tor 14
Van 11
Veg 0
Was 18
Win 15

Excluding Vegas, notice the two teams with the lowest totals were Colorado and Vancouver.

Very encouraging !

 

[Chili]

Very encouraging !

I`ve been following these type of trends in teams success at drafting for alot of years and I do believe their is a correlation with team results.

Bergevin said it again today, they are building through the draft. We`ll see how it goes for De La Rose, Hudon, Mete and others.

 

[montreal]

With Mete making his NHL debut, he becomes the 41st pick of Timmins with the Habs to appear in an NHL game. From '03 to '07, 23 picks appeared in an NHL game. From '09 t0 '16, 18 picks have appeared in an NHL game.

 

[WinterLion]

There was a real black hole in there... but I am actually quite confident we are getting out of it. It's so important to have kids join the team and make an impact every year.

I like that MB is being very patient and really using the AHL as a development league. I just hope with our new coaching staff Sly will do a better job in Laval.

 

[The Camera Eye]

While many people are pointing fingers at MB (rightfully so) and the poor performance of some of the players, I think we need to discuss Trevor Timmins and the scouting staff. This roster consists mostly of grinders and low skilled, low ceiling players and I think most agree we either need to rebuild or if we don't, we'll stay on the treadmill of mediocrity for several years to come. Since 2006, the Habs have had one good draft (2007) and multiple drafts who have provided zero NHL players. Let's take a quick look:

2006 we drafted one NHL player (grinder/useless Ryan White). We passed on Giroux in the first round and drafted bust Fischer

2008 we drafted 5 players, none of whom even played in a single NHL game. Waste of 5 draft picks

2009 was equally as bad. 8 picks and none of them became NHLers

2010 we drafted bust Tinordi in the 1st, however this draft at least got us Gallagher

2011 7 draft picks, the only NHLer is Beaulieu who we later dumped for a 3rd round pick. None of the others have played in the NHL

2012 Once again with 7 draft picks, we drafted Galchenyuk (hard to **** that one up) and also Hudon (jury still out). Our two 2nd rounders haven't played in the league

2013 Another mediocre draft. We'll see what Lekhonen becomes, other than that there's no impact players

Is it too early to grade the more recent drafts? Because it doesn't look like we made any homerun type picks there either. In over 10 years we've drafted very few regular NHLers and even fewer impact players. Gallagher is the only late round gem, hence why most of our bottom 6 and most of our defense consists of castoffs from other teams no one else wanted. Yes MB has made puzzling moves as GM but we also have to take a long look at this scouting team. IMO true change not only means firing the GM but cleaning house across the organization.

Thanks for reading

 

[Agalloch]

Well Timmins is no longer Amateur Scout but Assistant GM (even tho he's still in charge of the draft).

He got promoted.

Shane Churla begun last draft...let's wait. We can judge Timmins until the 2016 draft.

 

[Sterling Archer]

These can be said of literally EVERY scout in the nhl from the past, present and future. Only less so for Timmins than most.

 

[Lozela]

Only thing he has to say is that Subban and McDonaugh should've been 1 and 2 for the next 10 yrs. Not his fault that the GM's not doing their jobs

 

[ArtPeur]

Does anyone ever consider that he's being told to draft some type of players? Like:

- a big, steady and physical D so they pick Tinordi
- a big, physical with upside F, so they pick McCarron

.. and some boom/bust, falling players as draft picks like DLR or Collberg.. or even Beaulieu

 

[David Suzuki]

Far more concerned with the pro scouting than the amateur scouting tbh

 

[Hannibal]

Timmins and scouting departement should have been fired long ago.

 

[Mtl01]

While many people are pointing fingers at MB (rightfully so) and the poor performance of some of the players, I think we need to discuss Trevor Timmins and the scouting staff. This roster consists mostly of grinders and low skilled, low ceiling players and I think most agree we either need to rebuild or if we don't, we'll stay on the treadmill of mediocrity for several years to come. Since 2006, the Habs have had one good draft (2007) and multiple drafts who have provided zero NHL players.

This is from an article on habseyesontheprize from summer 2016 (it's a fairly good site for Habs articles):

Overall, if you look at all 99 picks under Trevor Timmins, Montreal boasts the highest average games played by a draft pick in the entire league since 2003. That is a remarkable feat, and is but one reason why Timmins continues to find success within the Canadiens organization. His ability to select players with NHL-level talent, without the benefit of high draft picks, is undeniable.

So overall, he and his staff have done fairly well given they tend to draft mid-pack.

Personally, I would look closer at the job the franchise has done developing their draft choices...

 

[The Camera Eye]

Does anyone ever consider that he's being told to draft some type of players? Like:

- a big, steady and physical D so they pick Tinordi
- a big, physical with upside F, so they pick McCarron

.. and some boom/bust, falling players as draft picks like DLR or Collberg.. or even Beaulieu

A big physical steady D with peak upside of being a bottom pairing D. A big physical F with peak upside of being a 4th line C. These are not the type of players a winning team drafts, even at the end of the 1st round. Also I believe Timmins has the final say on who the team picks.

 

[Natey]

I have no big issues with the scouting. Our development system has been atrocious and our main team development has been awful too.

Therrien, for years, would play grinders over talent players. Can't develop when you don't play. And can't develop when your coach tells you that you're a piece of shit.

This is from an article on habseyesontheprize from summer 2016 (it's a fairly good site for Habs articles):

Overall, if you look at all 99 picks under Trevor Timmins, Montreal boasts the highest average games played by a draft pick in the entire league since 2003. That is a remarkable feat, and is but one reason why Timmins continues to find success within the Canadiens organization. His ability to select players with NHL-level talent, without the benefit of high draft picks, is undeniable.

So overall, he and his staff have done fairly well given they tend to draft mid-pack.

Personally, I would look closer at the job the franchise has done developing their draft choices...

Exactly - we don't get a lot of "homeruns" but that has to do with our development AND the fact that we don't pick high very often.

Like, I personally don't love Galchenyuk's overall style, but the guy has posted basically 50~ points in the last three seasons but he's still not being given the keys. AT this point, he should be given two offensive players and top-6 minutes for a season. Instead, he starts on the third line and then gets put with Mitchell, haha.

Pacioretty gets the keys and he only produces by standing still and hoping someone can hit him with the puck enough times that something is bound to go in the net. And the reason it doesn't work in the playoffs is because it's harder to win the puck 4v5 in the playoffs than the regular season haha.

Andrighetto played 83 games with us and had 28 points, barely getting Top-6 time. Mostly scrap 4th line minutes.

He gets traded to Colorado, for you guessed it, a 4th line/press box player, and goes on to post 16 points in 19 games. He's posted 2 points in 3 games to start this season too, making 18 points in 22 games.