Trevor Timmins Part III

[WeThreeKings]

Pezzetta won't even earn a contract.

What a horrendous pick.

 

[HCH]

Pezzetta won't even earn a contract.

What a horrendous pick.

Anyone can pick at every little detail and use hindsight to validate their brilliance.

He was a 6th round pick

 

[WeThreeKings]

Anyone can pick at every little detail and use hindsight to validate their brilliance.

He was a 6th round pick

I wanted Sokolov. A guy projected to be a top 5 pick prior to the draft year, who went to ****** Sudbury, had some conditioning problems and played through a severe shoulder injury.

Last season he scores 40+ and is poised to be one of the best OHL players this season.

He was on the SAME ****ing team. They pick the useless grinder instead. Who's useless at the OHL level. Give me a break.

 

[DesmondDekker]

Anyone can pick at every little detail and use hindsight to validate their brilliance.

He was a 6th round pick

6th round picks can actually land you an already established 4th liner à la Flynn, Mitchell, etc.. I never understood the rationale behind trying to draft bottom 6 players when you can swing for the fences and aim at Sokolov instead of Pezzetta, or Buchnevich over Crisp.. If they bust, well it's not a huge loss in terms of value, but you do hit a homerun if one out of every 10 late round pick (4th round onwards) makes it as a full time NHLer.

 

[dcal64]

I wanted Sokolov. A guy projected to be a top 5 pick prior to the draft year, who went to ****** Sudbury, had some conditioning problems and played through a severe shoulder injury.

Last season he scores 40+ and is poised to be one of the best OHL players this season.

He was on the SAME ****ing team. They pick the useless grinder instead. Who's useless at the OHL level. Give me a break.

He was a 1st round pick in the OHL (11 OA in 2014), he must have some skill, there's no way teams pick grinders in the 1st round.

 

[WeThreeKings]

He was a 1st round pick in the OHL (11 OA in 2014), he must have some skill, there's no way teams pick grinders in the 1st round.

He's a grinder with a grinders skill set. Theres a big difference between what you think he is at 16 and what he is at 18.

What he was at 18, was a garbage grinder who sucks.

If it's only a 6th round pick, select someone with actual talent.

 

[Treb]

He was a 1st round pick in the OHL (11 OA in 2014), he must have some skill, there's no way teams pick grinders in the 1st round.

Big grinder boys are a lot more effective in junior than in the NHL.

 

[zzoo]

People might say that a pre-season game means nothing. Well, it's true for a veteran that has his spot assured. As for a young player who is fighting for a spot, the pre-season game is as important as a PO game for a veteran.

After 2-3 years, my perception about Scherbak, McCarron and especially DLR hasn't changed at all. They remain ordinary players in my eye (trying to be nice). In fact, my perception about DLR does change: going from a so so 3rd C at best to a below-average 4th C.

I'm so disappointed in our high picks: Fisher, Kristo, Leblanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Collberg, McCarron, Scherbak and surely DLR. And I'm not even very satisfied with Galchnyuk, but not at the point of disappointment like the others.

As for Poehling, it's still very early to judge him, but solely based on his stats and profile description, he sounds like Chipchura or DLR.

 

[Tyson]

Habs 2013 draft looked promising for a while. These 2 along with Fucale are becoming busts which is par for the course under this management.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

DeLaLoose and McScrubon needs to GTFO to the AHL, they are useless, we are loosing our time with them.

 

[Wats]

Habs 2013 draft looked promising for a while. These 2 along with Fucale are becoming busts which is par for the course under this management.

Don't blame management. Blame the players for not meeting team expectations. Blame the fans for putting too much pressure.

 

[Agalloch]

2013 draft is still good. 2 NHLer per draft is good (Lehkonen and McCarron)

McCarron will at least be a 4th liner.

 

[sharks9]

2013 draft is still good. 2 NHLer per draft is good (Lehkonen and McCarron)

McCarron will at least be a 4th liner.

3 since Andrighetto is still in the NHL

 

[1909]

Don't blame management. Blame the players for not meeting team expectations. Blame the fans for putting too much pressure.

They has a similar (defensive minded centerman) player in their backyard, Laurent Dauphin, who will most possibly play with the Hawks this season.

 

[Whitesnake]

2013 draft is still good. 2 NHLer per draft is good (Lehkonen and McCarron)

McCarron will at least be a 4th liner.

That's not how it works. We keep excusing this management for the 2008 to 2011 because they didn't have a lot of picks to work with and yet, when they have a lot of picks in the top 60, it's fine when they just "play in the nhl"? It won't be good enough for this team to have a great future if we can't make miracles. And you are even including McCarron who is terribly dissapointing this year.

Incredible to find very good drafts when this team has no future to look for ASIDE from the first 2 picks this year.

 

[MrNasty]

People might say that a pre-season game means nothing. Well, it's true for a veteran that has his spot assured. As for a young player who is fighting for a spot, the pre-season game is as important as a PO game for a veteran.

After 2-3 years, my perception about Scherbak, McCarron and especially DLR hasn't changed at all. They remain ordinary players in my eye (trying to be nice). In fact, my perception about DLR does change: going from a so so 3rd C at best to a below-average 4th C.

I'm so disappointed in our high picks: Fisher, Kristo, Leblanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Collberg, McCarron, Scherbak and surely DLR. And I'm not even very satisfied with Galchnyuk, but not at the point of disappointment like the others.

As for Poehling, it's still very early to judge him, but solely based on his stats and profile description, he sounds like Chipchura or DLR.

Some of those guys you mention were drafted a decade ago; or more. You are really reaching. You include Fischer but ignore Subban, Patches, McDonaugh, Gallagher etc. You also skipped over Juulsen and Sergachev!

 

[montreal]

People might say that a pre-season game means nothing. Well, it's true for a veteran that has his spot assured. As for a young player who is fighting for a spot, the pre-season game is as important as a PO game for a veteran.

After 2-3 years, my perception about Scherbak, McCarron and especially DLR hasn't changed at all. They remain ordinary players in my eye (trying to be nice). In fact, my perception about DLR does change: going from a so so 3rd C at best to a below-average 4th C.

I'm so disappointed in our high picks: Fisher, Kristo, Leblanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Collberg, McCarron, Scherbak and surely DLR. And I'm not even very satisfied with Galchnyuk, but not at the point of disappointment like the others.

As for Poehling, it's still very early to judge him, but solely based on his stats and profile description, he sounds like Chipchura or DLR.

Clearly there are issues either at the development end or at the scouting level. Since Timmins has shown a good deal of success vs almost zero success from Lefebvre, to me it's much more logical that the issues are much more at the development level then the scouting level. That's not to say that all parties involved aren't to blame. Management has brought these kids up too soon, the coaching staffs at both levels don't always seem to handle them well imo, the scouts need to do a better job at finding smart hockey players vs getting big bodies, and the players themselves need to do better.

Granted you are going to have your misses when picking 18 year olds, some will just peak at 17/18/19 etc.., sometimes injuries derail things or off ice issues, there are lots of reasons why most NHL picks outside the top 10/20 don't pan out. But ever since Lefebvre has been here, it's not been very pretty. Hopefully management either makes changes at some point or somehow improvements are made.

That's not how it works. We keep excusing this management for the 2008 to 2011 because they didn't have a lot of picks to work with and yet, when they have a lot of picks in the top 60, it's fine when they just "play in the nhl"? It won't be good enough for this team to have a great future if we can't make miracles. And you are even including McCarron who is terribly dissapointing this year.

Incredible to find very good drafts when this team has no future to look for ASIDE from the first 2 picks this year.

It is logical to assume that you will have issues when you pick less often and lower. There's a good reason why most draft picks struggle the later they are picked. Of course there's always exceptions.

As for top 60 picks, we'll see in several years about this past summers draft, as I can't speak to them yet since I don't know that much about them and haven't seen much of them so far. But beyond that, Sergachev, Juulsen, Scherbak, McCarron, DLR, Fucale, Lehkonen, Galchenyuk, Collberg, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Leblanc and Kristo. That's over 9 years. Kristo/Collberg are the only major busts in terms of never reaching the NHL (as I'm 100% certain Juulsen will at some point). We have beaten to death the issues with guys like Leblanc, Tinordi, who is to blame etc... Fucale is troubling especially since he was picked so high and then we have 3 goalies that we got for free and they all look to have NHL upside in Condon, Lindgren and McNiven. It makes you wonder about picking goalies high until you look at that 5th overall pick and him being one of the best players in the world.

Clearly there are concerns here, management doesn't seem to agree and we don't need to go into that, as they are here now and nothing we say is going to change that any time soon. Either this team has an issue developing players or the scouting needs improvement, or perhaps it's both and management calling kids up too soon and the players not doing what they need to do to improve in terms of adding mass, strength, improving skating or whatever skills they need to work on.

 

[bsl]

Since 2008, only 4 players drafted by the Habs have played 100 games or more in the NHL, which is last in the league.

Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Beaulieu, and Andrighetto are those 4 players.

Kill shot.

 

[Ezpz]

timmins was promoted above scouting. churla has been our head scout and even holds timmins old job title

 

[Uncle Gary]

Need to clean house.

 

[bsl]

If we're going to talk about it being a scouting rather than a managing problem, the results should be normalized against the draft pick position over that time frame. Because the number and quality of draft picks since 08 has been very low in MTL. Pretty much only one year would it have been above average (2012, 2013 is arguable with the multiple 2nds, but their first was very late).

Basically, in the Carey Price era, MTL has both finished high and not valued stockpilling draft picks.

Not a post to you. But Timmins works for a team that almost always has first round picks 20 or lower. It is his job to find good picks in this range. He is paid a lot of money to do this. He has not done so. The evidence is clear. I said 2 years ago that if Mac and Scherbak fail, Timmins should go. I stand by this.

Time for Timmins to go.

Go beyond drafting or development for a second.

At a certain point, the onus is on the player to make their own way just like a bird leaving the nest.

There are only 700 odd NHL jobs and many are held by incumbents.

The vast majority of 'prospects' are missing something or they would be NHL players.

It's up to them to know their weaknesses and work hard to improve on them. I think it's also important to know to what NHL role they best project and work towards that.

I completely agree with this. At the same time, pick players that will do the work themselves. Again, this is on Timmins. He just does not understand hockey players in my opinion. I just don't think he gets it. I just don't think he understands the game.

Well to be honest it's not as bad as it looks. The problem with our 1st rounders is we always compare them with others. Like if they are not the best player of the 1st round outside of the top 5 they *****. We simply can't accept that a 1st rounder who become a 2nd line player is still a success.

From 2003 to 2012 (10 years) :

2003 : AK (good 2nd line player for a while)
2005 : Price (generational goalie)
2007 : McDO (1st pairing dman)
2011 : Beaulieu (3rd pairing dman who could still become more)
2012 : 1st line winger

So 50% of the picks from 2003 to 2012 became useful players. All the picks since 2013 could make the NHL none of them are clear flop for now.

You are reaching. That is a joke. Especially as you are not naming the numerous huge misses. And the fact that Habs are a rich team that should be finding great low first round picks in any case.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Need to clean house.

I did. Vaccuumed, mopped, did the dishes, doing laundry now.

 

[bsl]

All I wanted to know is if you watched the showcase games last week before commenting on Poehling's future and expectations from fans. Did you?

We are discussing Timmins performance the last 10 years. Ten. Years. Not what might happen to picks this year. The picks this year will make zero difference to habs chances at a cup the next 3 years.

Timmins works in a context. Low first round picks, and sometimes fewer picks. If he can't handle that, somebody else probably can. Time to ask the question.

 

[Habs]

TT is a butthead , type A personality... just like MB.

 

[scrubadam]

You are reaching. That is a joke. Especially as you are not naming the numerous huge misses. And the fact that Habs are a rich team that should be finding great low first round picks in any case.

TT's reign over our 1st round has been pretty bad. He is saved by Max/Price but I would trade those 2 for the players he missed out on.

AK over Carter ????
Chipchura over Zajac
Price great pick.... BUT with habs needing a C and Kopitar on the board. Sure he fell to 11 and alot of teams passed. But for a great scout and a team that has needed a C thats a swing and a miss
Fisher over Giroux, that is a fireable offense
McD and Max great draft can't complain about this
Leblanc over Kreider ??
Tinordi over Hayes/Kuznetzov. Not to mention trading a pick to move up when could of held onto the pick and taken Kuz so a double whammy. Waste a pick to draft a useless bust
Beau over Klefboom
AG good pick in a bad draft full marks for getting the 3rd OVA right. I think an assist should go to EDM and CBJ since if one of them would of taken AG...
Mac over Thoedore/Dano/Hartman
Scherback over Hosang
Julsen over Beauviller
Sergachev got us Drouin but how about Logan Brown last night. Not like this team could use C's. Or the 2 other Centers taken after Sergachev.

15 drafts later. A clock is right twice a day. I can give TT 2.5 drafts where he got it right.