Trevor Timmins Part III

[Habs]

Timmins is so overhyped around here it isn't even funny any more.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Timmins and scouting departement should have been fired long ago.

I assume if Bergerien is fired the next GM coming in will clean up the mess he created by hiring all of his friends along side Timmins

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I had big faith with Trevor Timmins and the 2007 draft is still one of this franchise best but his time is over.

I also thought that from the 2008-2011 draft it was unfair to judge him due to the lack of quality picks. That being said the 2012-2015 draft were filled with great picks and the results thus far are lukewarm.

I also think the whole franchise need a refresh and a new scouting chief would be welcomed. I really like the jobs done by Washington, Ottawa and Anaheim. We could try to poach them their scouts.

 

[FlatIron]

Hello to all, I've been lurking the boards for a few years but decided it was time to jump in the conversation. I've been a longtime fan of the Habs (4o years give or take, my approximate age).

Anyway like many in here, I've become very frustrated with this organization, even before the famous trade of two years ago but moreso since. I'm not sure management knows where they are going with this team.

I'm sure this has been written up as you guys all seem very knowledgeable and I probably don't have to tell you this but let's look at our prospects or lack thereof, specifically the lack of 2nd round picks due to trades (Vanek, Petry and Shaw).

2013 was the only year where the Habs had multiple 2nd round selections and have these players around still.

Not including 2017 (still kind of unknowns), the Canadiens have in the previous 9 drafts not had a first or second round pick, 7 out of 9 drafts. So much for building from the draft.

2016
1st Round: Sergachev -9th overall (gone)
2nd Round: No Pick

2015
1st: Juulsen - 26th
2nd: No Pick

2014
1st: Scherbak - 26th (Not exactly working out)
2nd: No Pick

2013
1st:McCarron - 25th (Not exactly working out)
2nd La Rose - 34th
Fucale - 36th
Lehkonen - 55th

2012
1st: Galchenyuk - 3rd (who knows what will happen)
2nd: Collberg - 33rd (gone)
Tower - 51st (?)


Pre Bergevin Era

2011
1st: Beaulieu - 17th (gone)
2nd: No Pick

2010
1st: Tinordi - 22nd (gone)
2nd: No Pick

2009
1st: Leblanc - 18th (gone)
2nd: No Pick

2008
1st: No Pick
2nd: Kristo - 55th (gone)

 

[Andrei79]

Well, we've drafted like the Oilers - minus the first overall picks.

Soon, we'll have those too.

 

[David Suzuki]

If you've lurked here long enough you should know this take pops up like once a week

 

[Runner77]

Hello to all, I've been lurking the boards for a few years but decided it was time to jump in the conversation. I've been a longtime fan of the Habs (4o years give or take, my approximate age).

Anyway like many in here, I've become very frustrated with this organization, even before the famous trade of two years ago but moreso since. I'm not sure management knows where they are going with this team.

I'm sure this has been written up as you guys all seem very knowledgeable and I probably don't have to tell you this but let's look at our prospects or lack thereof, specifically the lack of 2nd round picks due to trades (Vanek, Petry and Shaw).

...

Welcome to HF.

You're in good company, a lot of us have seen the light way before now. Bergevin has dug himself a hole and I don't believe he can get out of it at this late stage in his tenure. As you mentioned, there is no sense of direction as to what management is trying to do. Their drfating record under Bergevin is shoddy, but so is the development and that's on Bergevin as well, since he's the one who insists on hiring individuals on the basis of friendship and fails to take the necessary hardline decisions that need to be taken when those you appoint don't perform at a level that puts them amongst the league's best.

 

[Chili]

Lately, Habs scouts have done a very nice job identifying undrafted goaltenders (Condon, Lindgren, McNiven)

Pretty good job with smaller players, later in the draft (Gallagher, Mete, Hudon).

A couple NHLers with higher picks.

Beyond that not alot to talk about, alot of dry wells.

 

[CoopersFalls]

The issue I think lies in the fact that Timmins refuses to take risks on offensive guys in the 1st round. We always pass the risky offensive guys for "safe" picks who end up with low ceilings --- Chipchura, Leblanc, McCarron. One can argue that Scherbak was risky, however his defensive game was talked about positively and he wasn't considered all that risky. The others were thought to be guaranteed to be every day NHLers who ended up missing (can't say that about McCarron yet though). The last risk on an offensive guy was Kostitsyn.

Another problem is that we have historically traded away wayyyyyy too many 2nd rounders in recent years. Many hidden gems come out of the second round and we give them away like candy on Halloween.

 

[Miller Time]

Hello to all, I've been lurking the boards for a few years but decided it was time to jump in the conversation. I've been a longtime fan of the Habs (4o years give or take, my approximate age).

Anyway like many in here, I've become very frustrated with this organization, even before the famous trade of two years ago but moreso since. I'm not sure management knows where they are going with this team.

I'm sure this has been written up as you guys all seem very knowledgeable and I probably don't have to tell you this but let's look at our prospects or lack thereof, specifically the lack of 2nd round picks due to trades (Vanek, Petry and Shaw).

2013 was the only year where the Habs had multiple 2nd round selections and have these players around still.

Not including 2017 (still kind of unknowns), the Canadiens have in the previous 9 drafts not had a first or second round pick, 7 out of 9 drafts. So much for building from the draft.

2016
1st Round: Sergachev -9th overall (gone)
2nd Round: No Pick

2015
1st: Juulsen - 26th
2nd: No Pick

2014
1st: Scherbak - 26th (Not exactly working out)
2nd: No Pick

2013
1st:McCarron - 25th (Not exactly working out)
2nd La Rose - 34th
Fucale - 36th
Lehkonen - 55th

2012
1st: Galchenyuk - 3rd (who knows what will happen)
2nd: Collberg - 33rd (gone)
Tower - 51st (?)


Pre Bergevin Era

2011
1st: Beaulieu - 17th (gone)
2nd: No Pick

2010
1st: Tinordi - 22nd (gone)
2nd: No Pick

2009
1st: Leblanc - 18th (gone)
2nd: No Pick

2008
1st: No Pick
2nd: Kristo - 55th (gone)

What's laughable is that MB regularly talks about "building from the draft" and how hard it is get talent via trade... Yet proceeds to do nothing in 5+ seasons to bolster our drafting in the first round, while trading away picks Luke they were candy

 

[montreal]

The issue I think lies in the fact that Timmins refuses to take risks on offensive guys in the 1st round. We always pass the risky offensive guys for "safe" picks who end up with low ceilings --- Chipchura, Leblanc, McCarron. One can argue that Scherbak was risky, however his defensive game was talked about positively and he wasn't considered all that risky. The others were thought to be guaranteed to be every day NHLers who ended up missing (can't say that about McCarron yet though). The last risk on an offensive guy was Kostitsyn.

Another problem is that we have historically traded away wayyyyyy too many 2nd rounders in recent years. Many hidden gems come out of the second round and we give them away like candy on Halloween.

Scherbak was a risky pick for sure, they seem to go every other year with risk. Galchenyuk had his risk after missing a full season. Then a safer pick in McCarron. People might not be happy with his development, but he should easily be a full time 4th liner by next year. Scherbak was risky, Juulsen very safe, Sergachev is risky despite being the top blueliner in the OHL. Poehling looks a very safe bet to be an NHLer in time.

 

[Whitesnake]

Scherbak was a risky pick for sure, they seem to go every other year with risk. Galchenyuk had his risk after missing a few season. Then a safer pick in McCarron. People might not be happy with his development, but he should easily be a full time 4th liner by next year. Scherbak was risky, Juulsen very safe, Sergachev is risky despite being the top blueliner in the OHL. Poehling looks a very safe bet to be an NHLer in time.

Risky or not, this management has to be amongst the worst as far as talented offensive guys. As if they are goalie specialists who have no idea how to draft other positions. I like Lernout...yet you have Brayden Point who leaves right after and would have been our No1 C. Tampa Bay are able to find Palat, Kucherov, Point, they are able to see what Tyler Johnson can give,

The only guys we were able to find as far as offensive guys are concerned are Ghetto, Gallagher and Pacioretty. You will probably be able to add Lehkonen. And a big freakin maybe to Scherbak. And I'm actually counting every draft, except this year. But except Pacioretty, you are NOT talking the level of talent that TBay got. Does that mean they are perfect? Of course not. They can suck too...see their 2007 draft, 2008 draft after Stamkos etc. But their core team is build out of later draft picks and not even drafted guys. And I'm not even counting their 2015, 2016 and 2017 which they could see some nice gems in there but we will see. Yeah, it helps to have Stamkos and Hedman too. We have Galchenyuk and Price that we should be able to build on too.

 

[Chili]

Check the Ducks drafting of dmen currently in the NHL...

2007 93rd Steve Kämpfer
2008 43rd Justin Schultz (as well as Jake Gardiner 17th)
2009 106th Sami Vatanen
2010 132nd Tim Heed (as well as Cam Fowler 12th)
2011 160th Josh Manson
2012 210th Jaycob Megna (as well as Hampus Lindholm 6th)
2013 26th Shea Theodore
2014 55th Brandon Montour

I emphasized the later picks to show the Ducks consistently find NHL dmen later in the draft..

The Habs on the other hand can`t or won`t draft centers and rarely find any dmen, just small wingers who have trouble getting to the net.

This explains the parade of King, Benn, Martinsen, Nesterov, Ott, Davidson, Hemsky, Morrow, Streit and so on...

 

[Habs100]

If you've lurked here long enough you should know this take pops up like once a week

I hope Timmins is around for the upcoming lottery picks. His record in the lottery is stellar

Sergachev (steal of the first round)
Galchenyuk (Morgan Reilly and Forsberg were probably the only 2 better players, but there's time for Chucky to catch up. I would like to see him play a full season with a playmaker like radulov).
McDonagh (steal of the first round)
Price (Best goalie in the world, but in hindsight it would have been better to draft Kopitar)
Andrei Kostitsyn (His only bad lottery pick)

 

[1909]

I hope Timmins is around for the upcoming lottery picks. His record in the lottery is stellar

Sergachev (steal of the first round)
Galchenyuk (Morgan Reilly and Forsberg were probably the only 2 better players, but there's time for Chucky to catch up. I would like to see him play a full season with a playmaker like radulov).
McDonagh (steal of the first round)
Price (Best goalie in the world, but in hindsight it would have been better to draft Kopitar)
Andrei Kostitsyn (His only bad lottery pick)

OMG !

 

[montreal]

The Habs on the other hand can`t or won`t draft centers and rarely find any dmen, just small wingers who have trouble getting to the net....

Timmins defense looks like,

McDonagh Subban
Mete Sergachev
Beaulieu Emelin
Weber

plus Streit close to 800 games, O'Byrne over 300 games, and Juulsen isn't far from the NHL, if not this year then next.

Also Timmins has drafted 31 centers out of 106 picks

Defensemen - 39
Centers - 31
Wingers - 27
Goalies - 9

 

[Chili]

Timmins defense looks like,

McDonagh Subban
Mete Sergachev
Beaulieu Emelin
Weber

plus Streit close to 800 games, O'Byrne over 300 games, and Juulsen isn't far from the NHL, if not this year then next.

Also Timmins has drafted 31 centers out of 106 picks

Defensemen - 39
Centers - 31
Wingers - 27
Goalies - 9

2007 was great, no one here denies that but a team has to keep adding or they will fall behind.

Did you look at that list above and see the Ducks adding a dman virtually every draft?

There is no comparison to the Ducks recent draft history and the Habs and the proof was last night watching them depleted by 6 very good players and they still crush the Habs.

 

[le_sean]

Lo and behold Scott Walford (68th) and Cale Fleury (87th) are doing a whole lot of nothing. Mattheos (73rd), Lipanov (76th), Ruzicka (109th), Safin (115th) are doing well.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Was hoping to catch the Ikonen vs Nattinen game today but didn't.

Joonas fed my 7th round pick, Jerry Turkulainen with a nice pass for the first goal.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Lo and behold Scott Walford (68th) and Cale Fleury (87th) are doing a whole lot of nothing. Mattheos (73rd), Lipanov (76th), Ruzicka (109th), Safin (115th) are doing well.

Not selecting Lipanov was mind boggling.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Not selecting Lipanov was mind boggling.

I wasn't sold on Lipanov personally. I really wanted Safin at some point though. And he just kept falling, and falling, and falling, and we kept drafting dman after dman.

 

[le_sean]

And of course, of the 37 defencemen the Habs selected in 2017, the only good one is the one that got hurt and is sidelined half of the season.

 

[montreal]

2007 was great, no one here denies that but a team has to keep adding or they will fall behind.

Did you look at that list above and see the Ducks adding a dman virtually every draft?

There is no comparison to the Ducks recent draft history and the Habs and the proof was last night watching them depleted by 6 very good players and they still crush the Habs.

So they aren't the ducks but it doesn't mean they rarely find any D men. At the rate Sergachev is going he could end up with more points then our entire team. Mete looks very impressive, Juulsen stands a very good chance of being an NHLer. Lernout should be a 5th/6th/7th by next season. Nygren would have been an NHLer if not for being injured when they were ready to call him up. He's been great in the SHL and NLA so far. Plus we'll see about the new blueliners they just drafted this summer.

 

[Chili]

So they aren't the ducks but it doesn't mean they rarely find any D men. At the rate Sergachev is going he could end up with more points then our entire team. Mete looks very impressive, Juulsen stands a very good chance of being an NHLer. Lernout should be a 5th/6th/7th by next season. Nygren would have been an NHLer if not for being injured when they were ready to call him up. He's been great in the SHL and NLA so far. Plus we'll see about the new blueliners they just drafted this summer.

Hope is eternal so hope for the best.

The problem is the Habs need help now. Of the 30 teams excluding Vegas every other team has more of their own drafted dmen on their roster.

The Habs have only one, Mete. Only two teams have as few as two (Pens and Oilers).

Certainly that is related to mangement décisions but it`s still a fact that they moved on from the others they drafted.

 

[montreal]

Hope is eternal so hope for the best.

The problem is the Habs need help now. Of the 30 teams excluding Vegas every other team has more of their own drafted dmen on their roster.

The Habs have only one, Mete. Only two teams have as few as two (Pens and Oilers).

Certainly that is related to mangement décisions but it`s still a fact that they moved on from the others they drafted.

There's no way that's Timmins fault. He didn't trade McDonagh, Subban, Sergachev, Beaulieu. The Habs D would look very different if we had all those guys with Mete.