Trading Places LEAFS HABS

[taurine330]

They are better off next season, but we will surpass them in 3 years.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Hard to be fair to the Habs right now. They collapsed last season, and I don't think it was just Price. Losing him was just what started the team to spiral out of control. If they get their team in order, I still think they are in a better spot than us. However, they have limitations that we don't have with Therrien and a depleting prospect pool.

I'd say they are much more likely to be a playoff team who might go far (due to Price).
We are a bit more likely to be a contender (all the talent, but so far to go).

Assuming Price is the same player he was prior to injury, I think the best the Habs can hope for is being a team like the 99 Sabres or 03 Ducks; make it to the finals on the back of an elite goalie only to falter in the finals. I would put even making it to the finals as a huge question mark for them however. It's not like the Predators lacked elite goaltending, Weber simply could not deliver. Even with the improvements in their top 6, Nashville hasn't even made it to the conference finals.

As for the OP's question, you go with the Leafs situation. Who in their right mind would pick the Habs? Even with Price, what good does it do you when your GM and coach are both incompetent and base their moves heavily on bias? Most concerning however is that even their ownership is out to lunch. I think we all too quickly forget what it was like to have MLSE, Burke, and Ferguson leading the charge and the hopelessness they brought along with them.

 

[RyanOhReally]

Habs are a playoff team with Price next year. If not, then Price has taken a step back because I think they got better this offseason. Would I take Weber for PK? No. But add Radulov and Shaw, and that team is a solid 6-8 seed in the east. Also, the Atlantic is kind of the worst division. A lot of bubble teams. Buffalo, Boston, Detroit, Montreal, and then you have us likely in last or second last. I think they'll be better.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Habs are a playoff team with Price next year. If not, then Price has taken a step back because I think they got better this offseason. Would I take Weber for PK? No. But add Radulov and Shaw, and that team is a solid 6-8 seed in the east. Also, the Atlantic is kind of the worst division. A lot of bubble teams. Buffalo, Boston, Detroit, Montreal, and then you have us likely in last or second last. I think they'll be better.

Nashville seemed to think that Radulov would be a difference maker as well. He lasted not even 10 games. Throw Therrien into the mix and I foresee a lot more drama stemming from that relationship.

I think BargainBin and the Habs are utterly screwed; they are desperate and it shows.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Bergevin hitched his wagon to Therrain and is gonna ride it all the way down. He knows that if the Habs **** the bed again this season, he's fired so there isn't much regard for the long term.

The Habs are no worse off with Weber in the line up - I actually think he might be a better fit their than Subban but he shortens their competitive window. At the end of the day they'll go as far as a healthy Price can take them which IMO could push for an ECF birth. They are mired with an above average roster with elite goaltending. A solid forward group that could still use another high end core piece, but a shallow blue line. That can still go far but not quite far enough to beat teams like Tampa, Pittsburgh, and some of the tougher west teams.

With Matthews now in the fold, along with Nylander/Marner and the depth of the prospect pool (with years of team control) plus the Leafs excellent long term cap outlook, they're better position to have a steady competitive team .. Definitely some work to go but I wouldn't want to trade places.

That being said a new GM coming into Montreal could turn it around pretty quickly with some shrewd moves - they have good pieces in place still.

 

[napoleon in rags]

Regean Houle as GM and Mario Tremblay as coach was a wonderful tandem; the Habs should bring them back.

 

[deletethis]

Montreal has a lot of players who should be expected to deliver in 2016-17. The Leafs are currently set up to go through growing pains. Montreal has a higher chance of immediate success. The Leafs have the higher chance of longer term sustained success.

 

[mallory67]

They are closer to a cup because they have two out of the three necessary core pieces: #1 goalie, #1 D. The leafs have zero out of the three, currently.

That said, I'm fine with the situation of the Leafs. I believe the pipeline is healthier and more flush with talent, and in 2-3 years, will likely be in a better situation than the Habs.

They have Shea Weber who is about to turn 31 years old in August ... his best years are behind him.
Sure he is great ... but that greatness is not useful to the position the Habs are in right now.

If they do a full on rebuild ... Weber is in for some losing years.
If they struggle on with small changes, Weber will not have the scoring support he will need.
They don't have enough prospects to improve their forward core.

And yes they have a #1 goalie. Price is awesome.

 

[67Cup]

If Price recovers fully from injury, he's probably the best goalie in the world. That in itself likely means the Habs are ahead of the Leafs this year, probably well ahead. My guess is that the Habs will make the playoffs with a 5-8 seed. Finishing 10th in the conference would be a substantial improvement for the Leafs, by contrast.

Longer term, and longer term could come soon, the Leafs are in a much better place. Better management, better coaching, better prospect pool all add up to a much brighter future. I think only a big time Habs homer would deny that probability.

Things could, emphasize could, work out for the Habs. Sometimes drawing to an inside straight actually works. Maybe everything comes together and the Habs make a Cup run. But there is also the possibility of a train wreck in Habsland. Radulov could be a chemistry killer. Shaw might not take the next step forward and could become a cap anchor in the not too distant future. Analytics guys loved Subban and argue strongly that Weber has gone downhill the last couple of years. It is hard to see him not becoming a cap anchor for many years. The prospect pool is almost as shallow as the Leafs pool was a few years ago. Goalies are hard to predict. Perhaps Price doesn't come back to all world status.

More likely than a train wreck is that the Habs will be just good enough not to get really high draft picks and that they will be middle of the pack to lower middle of the pack for years sometime after the next couple of seasons.

Of course, it is also possible that the best laid Shanaplans don't work out either. But I think the Leafs are the better bet for success a few years from now.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

If Price recovers fully from injury, he's probably the best goalie in the world. That in itself likely means the Habs are ahead of the Leafs this year, probably well ahead. My guess is that the Habs will make the playoffs with a 5-8 seed. Finishing 10th in the conference would be a substantial improvement for the Leafs, by contrast.

Longer term, and longer term could come soon, the Leafs are in a much better place. Better management, better coaching, better prospect pool all add up to a much brighter future. I think only a big time Habs homer would deny that probability.

Things could, emphasize could, work out for the Habs. Sometimes drawing to an inside straight actually works. Maybe everything comes together and the Habs make a Cup run. But there is also the possibility of a train wreck in Habsland. Radulov could be a chemistry killer. Shaw might not take the next step forward and could become a cap anchor in the not too distant future. Analytics guys loved Subban and argue strongly that Weber has gone downhill the last couple of years. It is hard to see him not becoming a cap anchor for many years. The prospect pool is almost as shallow as the Leafs pool was a few years ago. Goalies are hard to predict. Perhaps Price doesn't come back to all world status.

More likely than a train wreck is that the Habs will be just good enough not to get really high draft picks and that they will be middle of the pack to lower middle of the pack for years sometime after the next couple of seasons.

Of course, it is also possible that the best laid Shanaplans don't work out either. But I think the Leafs are the better bet for success a few years from now.

This satisfies me.

 

[highslot]

If Price recovers fully from injury, he's probably the best goalie in the world. That in itself likely means the Habs are ahead of the Leafs this year, probably well ahead. My guess is that the Habs will make the playoffs with a 5-8 seed. Finishing 10th in the conference would be a substantial improvement for the Leafs, by contrast.

Longer term, and longer term could come soon, the Leafs are in a much better place. Better management, better coaching, better prospect pool all add up to a much brighter future. I think only a big time Habs homer would deny that probability.

Things could, emphasize could, work out for the Habs. Sometimes drawing to an inside straight actually works. Maybe everything comes together and the Habs make a Cup run. But there is also the possibility of a train wreck in Habsland. Radulov could be a chemistry killer. Shaw might not take the next step forward and could become a cap anchor in the not too distant future. Analytics guys loved Subban and argue strongly that Weber has gone downhill the last couple of years. It is hard to see him not becoming a cap anchor for many years. The prospect pool is almost as shallow as the Leafs pool was a few years ago. Goalies are hard to predict. Perhaps Price doesn't come back to all world status.

More likely than a train wreck is that the Habs will be just good enough not to get really high draft picks and that they will be middle of the pack to lower middle of the pack for years sometime after the next couple of seasons.

Of course, it is also possible that the best laid Shanaplans don't work out either. But I think the Leafs are the better bet for success a few years from now.

the odds of NONE of the following not contributing to the leafs playoff hopes is close to nil:

lou
babcock

matthews, marner, anderson.

also, rielly, jvr, gardiner, nylander.

 

[MJ65]

I would welcome Price with heart but other then him not really interested, Subban was a different story

 

[Daisy Jane]

Honestly no. I don't want to switch so we had the habs, and the Habs had our team. someone said it - as of right now they are a one player team - where Price goes, there goes the Habs and even if you want to blur the lines and say "that's not true." I see them as I saw the 2002-2004 Leafs. They are contenders because of some of the Parts, they could win despite a lot of factors, but it's not like they're built for any type of long term success.

We don't truly know what we are, so i'm not gonna throw stones, but we know what Shanahan is attempting to create here, so I'd rather that vs. knowing an injury to my goalie makes everything weaker.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Habs are mess imo. Management and coaches make questionable decision after questionable decision and it's becoming more and more difficult to assess what direction they're going in and under what timeline.

 

[Goonface2k14]

I think the Habs will struggle again next season, even with a healthy Price.

With their prized goalie back, the pressure is clearly there to get back to a level of respectability. It will be more pressure than ever before on Carey Price, since so many people see his absence as the major reason for their demise. I think his absence was certainly a part of it, but so was the performance of the rest of the team. Missing Gallagher for a long stretch certainly didn't help. And goals against is truly a team stat that is based on the goalie just as much as it is on the team playing a sound defensive system in front of him.

The Weber for Subban deal might help them a little bit in the defensive zone, but does it really make them that much better of a team, overall? Markov isn't getting any younger. The offense will still be challenged (Radulov is not the saviour), and that will have a ripple effect on the entire team play, which will put more pressure on Price to be the hero in most games for them to stand a chance. I think this added pressure will ultimately hurt Price, and people will be asking "whats wrong with Price?", when they should be asking "whats wrong with the Habs?".

I would not be shocked if Montoya's "numbers" are better than Price's numbers this coming season, Therrien gets fired by mid-November, and the Habs go into a full rebuild as the season winds down, but they'll be stuck with an aging Weber and his giant contract.

 

[TLeafsFan]

I like where we are now, thanks.

 

[Menzinger]

The Habs best pieces are all in their primes and at best they're a borderline playoff team.

They'll be better than the Leafs (as they should be) this season, after that, who knows.

They, along with Edmonton and the Bucks have the worst and most dysfunctional management group in the league so, no, I'm not particularly envious of their organization

 

[BrannigansLaw]

The Habs best pieces are all in their primes and at best they're a borderline playoff team.

They'll be better than the Leafs (as they should be) this season, after that, who knows.

They, along with Edmonton and the Bucks have the worst and most dysfunctional management group in the league so, no, I'm not particularly envious of their organization

This is by far one of the most important factors. The internal dynamics of that group are heavily politicized. Worst of all, their owner is buying into their nonsense. Absolutely nothing worse than being in that position in my mind.

 

[pucci2001]

I love to take the Leafs all day in this one. Ask me two years ago and I would have said the Habs but the worst is over for us and the worst is fast upon the Habs. The collapse isn't even the worst part of what they have left. They haven't even begun the tear down. With Price, Weber they have 2-3 seasons before the pain. I don't think they have it in them to win it all with their core barring Price literally dragging that team the entire way and stealing not just a few games in the post season but the ENTIRE post season. I feel that when our team becomes a regular in the post season Montreal will still be tearing down their current roster...Weber's contract can get ugly unless they think they can unload him to a cap floor team in a few seasons.

As for us we are tight up to the cap now but that is okay we don't need to spend money right now we just need to be patient and wait until Lupul, Bozak(if he is leaving), Michalek, and a couple others fall off by then we can offer the standard 6 year 30-45 mill contracts to our actual stars such as Marner, Matthews, Nylander.

Stay the course, endure, start to enjoy watching the Leafs again. No reason for anyone to want to swap teams...even for Price. Especially when we could get him in free agency in a couple seasons when he sees how awful Montreal is(just like we picked up Cujo and Eddie when they were getting late in their career )

But seriously, the worst is behind us unless Matthews busts, then it will be like when my Raiders selected JaMarcus Russel and I will have to go back into a deep depression.

Edit: Oh yeah, I didn't even mention the management/coaching staff. They are literally going the Brian Burke route right now cutting corners to try and win right this instant when keeping PK would have given them a much wider window to develop talent and win it all.

 

[Pyrophorus]

The Leafs have a direction. MTL have question marks.

We truly won't know where they're headed until a new GM/Coach.

 

[Leafidelity]

Which team has Matthews again? I cant remember. I would take that one.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

I love to take the Leafs all day in this one. Ask me two years ago and I would have said the Habs but the worst is over for us and the worst is fast upon the Habs. The collapse isn't even the worst part of what they have left. They haven't even begun the tear down. With Price, Weber they have 2-3 seasons before the pain. I don't think they have it in them to win it all with their core barring Price literally dragging that team the entire way and stealing not just a few games in the post season but the ENTIRE post season. I feel that when our team becomes a regular in the post season Montreal will still be tearing down their current roster...Weber's contract can get ugly unless they think they can unload him to a cap floor team in a few seasons.

As for us we are tight up to the cap now but that is okay we don't need to spend money right now we just need to be patient and wait until Lupul, Bozak(if he is leaving), Michalek, and a couple others fall off by then we can offer the standard 6 year 30-45 mill contracts to our actual stars such as Marner, Matthews, Nylander.

Stay the course, endure, start to enjoy watching the Leafs again. No reason for anyone to want to swap teams...even for Price. Especially when we could get him in free agency in a couple seasons when he sees how awful Montreal is(just like we picked up Cujo and Eddie when they were getting late in their career )

But seriously, the worst is behind us unless Matthews busts, then it will be like when my Raiders selected JaMarcus Russel and I will have to go back into a deep depression.

Edit: Oh yeah, I didn't even mention the management/coaching staff. They are literally going the Brian Burke route right now cutting corners to try and win right this instant when keeping PK would have given them a much wider window to develop talent and win it all.

At his peak, Hasek was probably the most dominant goaltender to ever play and even he couldn't win it all despite dragging the Sabres to the finals in '99.

Price is extremely good, a legitimate superstar. He isn't as good as prime Hasek though nor do I think he ever will be. Unless Montreal somehow manages to upgrade their roster with a few very good pieces, I highly doubt they will ever win the Cup.

 

[Bluelines]

Which team has Price again? I cant remember. I would take that one.

I hear he is almost as good as Bernier....

Price could make the Marlies a Stanley Cup contender.

People who think the Leafs HAVE to be better than last year are discounting the number of young players we will have on the team and the fact this is a mans league.

The Habs will be a better team than the Leafs this year.

 

[The CyNick]

I think we're a bottom 5 team this year so it won't take much for the Habs to be better.

As I stated throughout this thread, it's tough to pass on Price. We should be better than last year in net, but I'm not convinced Anderson can carry the mail. In a seven game series I would take Price any day.

I would trade the Habs respect for history if that could be thrown into the deal.

 

[Kelly]

I would've took 01/20/2016 habs over 01/20/2016 leafs... but now that they've turned Subban into a soon to be bad contract, and we have Matthews... I'm happy with the Leafs