Trading Places LEAFS HABS
- Thread starter AppsSyl
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The CyNick
Freedom of Speech!
- Sep 17, 2009
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Diamond Joe Quimby
A$AP Joffrey
They are closer to a cup because they have two out of the three necessary core pieces: #1 goalie, #1 D. The leafs have zero out of the three, currently.
That said, I'm fine with the situation of the Leafs. I believe the pipeline is healthier and more flush with talent, and in 2-3 years, will likely be in a better situation than the Habs.
That said, I'm fine with the situation of the Leafs. I believe the pipeline is healthier and more flush with talent, and in 2-3 years, will likely be in a better situation than the Habs.
If Montreal wanted to do a full out rebuild, they could sell of Price/Patches/PK and immediately have a farm twice as good as anyone in the league.
The sum total of all of their assets is far more valuable than ours. But the longer they slide, the lower that value gets (see Leafs circa 2015).
The sum total of all of their assets is far more valuable than ours. But the longer they slide, the lower that value gets (see Leafs circa 2015).
I'll take the Leafs for sure. Habs draws MANY comparisons to what the Leafs were experiencing last year and the year before.
#1 forward (winger) that floats and is unneeded during desperate times. Add in the fact that he is the captain, and boy.
Poor contracts that won’t be able to move. Desharnais (although fair dollar wise, is constantly being used out of his realm), Markov, Pleks, Emelin etc.
Top 6 is very unappealing and this lays heavily on BargainBin on not making any moves in the offseason.
Therrien seems to have an immunity medal and their unwritten rule of having a French speaking coach makes matters worse.
Only seeing Bealieau come up from the AHL places huge red flags around their development. TInordi gone, and really only have McCarron and Lehkonen as promising prospects. Gally should have been given much more responsibilities in the centre position but we’re in year 4 and he’s still being put on Desharnais wing.
Regarding your point about MTL relying heavily on Price. Yes, he's their best player. But he can't score goals either. MTL is in trouble. I am happy we are on track over here and I think A LOT of Habs fans envy that.
#1 forward (winger) that floats and is unneeded during desperate times. Add in the fact that he is the captain, and boy.
Poor contracts that won’t be able to move. Desharnais (although fair dollar wise, is constantly being used out of his realm), Markov, Pleks, Emelin etc.
Top 6 is very unappealing and this lays heavily on BargainBin on not making any moves in the offseason.
Therrien seems to have an immunity medal and their unwritten rule of having a French speaking coach makes matters worse.
Only seeing Bealieau come up from the AHL places huge red flags around their development. TInordi gone, and really only have McCarron and Lehkonen as promising prospects. Gally should have been given much more responsibilities in the centre position but we’re in year 4 and he’s still being put on Desharnais wing.
Regarding your point about MTL relying heavily on Price. Yes, he's their best player. But he can't score goals either. MTL is in trouble. I am happy we are on track over here and I think A LOT of Habs fans envy that.
AppsSyl
Registered User
- May 28, 2015
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Their roster could bring more in assets, but the wildcard for me is the coaching and management. I believe our management and coaching truly understands where the game is at now and is going about things the right way. I don't think I can say the same for the HABS. I don't think the HABS can win a cup with their current lineup, and they are tight against the cap and caught in that mid-tier limbo. They might need to tear it down (with the exception of Price, Subban and a couple of others), but I don't think they will, because they think they can win.
The funny thing is that habs fans think a lack of scoring is the only problem which can easily be fixed with a single trade.
That's really only part of a larger problem which has to do with the team itself believing that Carey Price is the only reason they've won.
Without Price starting games they simply have zero confidence and are spending half the time in the d zone running around trying to block shots with the centers down low helping the defense. Ultimately this leads to less organized breakouts and less offense.
With Price in net the forwards were cheating up ice looking for the long pass.
Of course you know they'll win a lottery pick because..........well they're the habs.
So Montreal and Edmonton get lottery picks. The only question is whether the leafs can squeeze into the other position.
That's really only part of a larger problem which has to do with the team itself believing that Carey Price is the only reason they've won.
Without Price starting games they simply have zero confidence and are spending half the time in the d zone running around trying to block shots with the centers down low helping the defense. Ultimately this leads to less organized breakouts and less offense.
With Price in net the forwards were cheating up ice looking for the long pass.
Of course you know they'll win a lottery pick because..........well they're the habs.
So Montreal and Edmonton get lottery picks. The only question is whether the leafs can squeeze into the other position.
I Am The Stig
SPACESHIP!!
- Oct 19, 2011
- 2,516
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There's no question that Montreal management overrated their players and underestimated the influence of superior goaltending. They are missing that Rocket Richard, Guy Lafleur game breaking type player and their only hope of obtaining one at this point is missing the playoffs and winning a lottery pick because they don't have enough assets to acquire one. That's why you've heard so much Drouin talk in Montreal.
The leafs at least have an excellent coach, a plan moving forward and have started building a good prospect base. Long term this is better than what Montreal is doing where it looks like they'll forever be dependent on Carey Price.
I would stay with what we have. Montreal has price and subban but those two pieces are not enough to compete for a cup and they make Montreal just good enough to not be able to draft any more elite talent. Toronto being bad right now will give them a better opportunity to become a better team then Montreal is now in 4-5 years because of the players we have and will draft in the next few years.
paulhiggins
Registered User
- Feb 4, 2006
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They miss Price but no effort has been made by the GM to improve the team during its plight. Getting Scrivens, John Scott and Victor Bartley is just junk for junk. The absence of one player shouldn't make the team go from great to crap if the team was built correctly. They should can the GM and let him hire his new coach, however unlikely this might be until the offseason.
Jack Bauer
Registered User
Right now nobody has Price.
For the 2nd year in a row he is experiencing a 'lower body injury' that seems to be nagging him.
I would be quite concerned as a Habs fan. The window to win with that core is with guys like Price, Subban, Pacioretty in their prime.
They are a team that, in my opinion, should be going all out to ice the absolute best team every spring in the hopes of keeping everyone healthy and winning the weak Eastern Conference and hoping the best goaltender in the game can beat the West champ 4 times out of 7.
Instead they operate like a middle of the pack team, drafting kids and letting them develop but not capitalizing on their value and cashing it out for current proven NHL talent.
Atomos2
Registered User
Price and sometimes Subban and Gallagher are the only pieces on the Habs I'm interested in. The rest I wouldn't even give the time of day. That team is only good because of Price. Take him away and they're nothing.
Jack Bauer
Registered User
The overall value of both rosters likely breaks down very similarly. They just have more in their prime where we have players still in their teens about to burst onto the scene.
For their current stars like Price and Subban we have future top talent like Marner and Nylander and 1 more to come this June. Players like JVR and Pacioretty are similar in talent and age. Galchenyuk and Rielly same thing. Everything else pretty much breaks down to a wash.
If we ice a line of Laine/Nylander/Marner next Fall I don't think anyone will be feeling sorry for us for much longer.
ITM
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe...
- Jan 26, 2012
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The Canadiens are closer to a Stanley Cup. That's a cautionary tale to temper Leafs fans expectations and ADD inclinations in this: Montreal is substantially further down it's developmental goals than Toronto is and yet in real danger of falling far short of it's own reasonable expectations even with the lead.
Then there's the Price factor. Should be noted that our Joseph/Belfour era teams relied heavily on elite goaltending to cover for any number of structural deficiencies. Just goes to show how absolutely vital very good to elite goaltending is for any hope at success at this level.
To the choice of switching organizations and everything that entails...Nope. Live and die with the team that's ours for better or worse. Moreover, feel encouraged by last draft's trajectories. Number of those selections look like steals. So no thanks...I'll keep my Hunter and Dubas et al and wait for this faith and fidelity thing in my club these many many years to pay it's dividends.
I've been around the repellent Schadenfraude of Montreal fans who delighted in the ineptitude of many Leafs' regimes over the years. I've been around supposedly spiritual middle aged men at funerals for close relatives taunt about this nonsense. For that reason alone I avoid embracing that kind of ugliness.
As for Montreal, Subban and Price are nice pieces that most teams in the league would love to have. Their captain while talented and a rare type of player is the last type of personality who should be an NHL captain. These 3 guys at the moment, even on this team plunging in the standings, are more desirable commodities than the players on the Leafs' NHL roster. In the end, drafting will dictate which team is better off in a few years. In the recent past Montreal has out-drafted the Leafs without a doubt despite the protestations of the usual homers. Hopefully the Leafs have started a new trend of drafting and producing better NHLers that will outshine most NHL organizations including Montreal.
As for Montreal, Subban and Price are nice pieces that most teams in the league would love to have. Their captain while talented and a rare type of player is the last type of personality who should be an NHL captain. These 3 guys at the moment, even on this team plunging in the standings, are more desirable commodities than the players on the Leafs' NHL roster. In the end, drafting will dictate which team is better off in a few years. In the recent past Montreal has out-drafted the Leafs without a doubt despite the protestations of the usual homers. Hopefully the Leafs have started a new trend of drafting and producing better NHLers that will outshine most NHL organizations including Montreal.
Jack Bauer
Registered User
Gallagher is something we are missing for sure. Hopefully our draft guru Mr Hunter can find one for us with some of his extra picks.
To be fair though I would say the Habs are like most Eastern teams and are a losing their best player away from being on the playoff bubble. The good thing for them is the East is weak when compared to the West so if you can get in with a healthy Price you always have a shot at making it to the Finals.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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Diamond Joe Quimby
A$AP Joffrey
even if your plan was to still rebuild you'd have the value of trading Price, Subban and Patch....let alone whatever prospects they already have. including galy
I love and am excited for Marner, Nylander, etc as the next guy but its an easy choice
I love and am excited for Marner, Nylander, etc as the next guy but its an easy choice
You're overestimating the value of vets in the cap world. Players on long term expensive contracts will never return fair value in trades.
Look at Luongo if you want an example of what Price could fetch in a trade. Not that much. Same goes for Subban and Patch.
Younger cheaper players are worth far more in asset value.
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