Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Gearing Up for the Off-season Editon

[Sterling Archer]

I say no to Lucic. Dead weight.

Pacioretty Shaw might land us Nurse and 10th?

Sometimes a coach makes all the difference with players. there's obviously a comfort level with Lucic and Julien so if anyone could get him back to himself, it's Julien. In any case, Lucic won't be a 30 goal scorer. He's there to impose himself and creat space for more talented players ans chip in the odd garbage goal in tight. His talent level may have deteriorated but his size hasn't. Besides, he's SUCH a Bergevin/Julien player. I doubt they see it the same way we do especially that we went after him HARD when he was UFA.

Drouin Stastny/Other Lehkonen
Lucic Danault Gally
Chucky DLR Sherbak
Dlo Hudon Zadina
L.Shaw

Klefbom/Nurse Weber
Schlemko Petry
Benn Juulsen
Lernout

Plus whoever we draft at #10 and all our 2nd.

Maybe not ask for the 10 and replace it with RNH which would be even better and give us a full lineup with 2 bonafide top 2 centers assuming we can sign a Stastny etc. We'd be a lot closer to contending now if we could get RNH as part of a larger trade.

 

[Laurentide]

Sometimes a coach makes all the difference with players. there's obviously a comfort level with Lucic and Julien so if anyone could get him back to himself, it's Julien. In any case, Lucic won't be a 30 goal scorer. He's there to impose himself and creat space for more talented players ans chip in the odd garbage goal in tight. His talent level may have deteriorated but his size hasn't. Besides, he's SUCH a Bergevin/Julien player. I doubt they see it the same way we do especially that we went after him HARD when he was UFA.

Drouin Stastny/Other Lehkonen
Lucic Danault Gally
Chucky DLR Sherbak
Dlo Hudon Zadina
L.Shaw

Klefbom/Nurse Weber
Schlemko Petry
Benn Juulsen
Lernout

Plus whoever we draft at #10 and all our 2nd.

Maybe not ask for the 10 and replace it with RNH which would be even better and give us a full lineup with 2 bonafide top 2 centers assuming we can sign a Stastny etc. We'd be a lot closer to contending now if we could get RNH as part of a larger trade.

We just have to make Lucic a healthy scratch for any games against whatever team employs Emelin.

 

[The Great Weal]

We already know the Panthers are very interested in Pacioretty, it's for a reason. Their fans may not like it, but I seriously doubt they would be linked to Pacioretty if they aren't going to give a package somewhat worthwhile.

 

[Beezeral]

We already know the Panthers are very interested in Pacioretty, it's for a reason. Their fans may not like it, but I seriously doubt they would be linked to Pacioretty if they aren't going to give a package somewhat worthwhile.

I agree the Panthers are interested. Management is also quoted numerous times saying which prospects aren't being traded, but for whatever reason that part always gets ignored.

 

[HabsForHire]

What I’d pay is irrelevant. I’m not the gm. I do know that tallon is quoted again and again that he’s not trading Borgstrom, heponiemi, and tippett

Take what your GM says with a grain of salt. No gm is gonna come out and say were trading this player until they get moved. MB said subban wasn't getting traded....

 

[Scriptor]

In any trade package, If they take Alzner, I would take Lucic. However, I just don't see the Oilers making a desperate move like this. I also don't see them trading defenseman. Looking at both teams, I would say the Habs want futures and can absorb salary while the Oilers need cap space and speed/scoring on the wing.

Oilers:
- Patch fits but a pre-negotiated contract extension is something I think they are interested in. I know I would be if I was them
- Byron fits as well
- Maybe a guy like Schlemko who can play LD/RD as a good depth defenseman

Habs:
- 2018th 10th pick obviously
- Lucic (5 more years at $6M, age 30-34). I think his toughness up front could help our soft forward group even with his lack of foot speed. Remember, we are rebuilding
- Sekera (3 more years at $5.5M)
- Other futures... I would be targeting Puljujarvi and maybe other future picks.

How many teams are able to help the Oilers out with speed/scoring on wings while also absorbing salary in return? If the Habs can take on salary but acquire the #10 pick, Puljujarvi, and other picks, I think we could work a deal with them. The salary we take on means nothing as we are rebuilding on the fly anyways.

Oilers would save about $5M in salary alone for next year. This helps them make other moves to improve their D.

IMO, in taking on both Lucic and Sekera, and giving Pacioretty, Byron and Schlemko as well, MON is getting too little in return for the favour. Bergevin would get crucified and Chiarelli would suddenly go from goat to genius.

The depth up front with the addition of both Pacioretty and Byron (potentially 50+ goals), plus a veteran D with positional flexibility in Schlemko on not too bad a contract (2 years left at 2.1M) and the promise of becoming the Real Schlemko again, AND a 3.733M net Cap savings in the process to help re-sign Nurse and/or pay for the Pacioretty extension (5.403M net saving if Byron isnMt resigned and flipped for futures at the deadline instead) is a favour I wouldn't do for my own Mother!

When you're up to your neck in Cap trouble like EDM, at some point, it becomes a lot less about what you are willing to do and more about what you are willing to give for a team to let you climb out of Cap hell. Besides, EDM fans would start a cult dedicated to Chiarelli if he was able to unload both Lucic and Sekera's albatross contracts in one single trade!

I understand that EDM fans say they wouldn't trade RNH or a D like Klefbom or Nurse, but they will need to give from an area of strength to get immediate roster help and Cap relief at the same time.

 

[The Great Weal]

I agree the Panthers are interested. Management is also quoted numerous times saying which prospects aren't being traded, but for whatever reason that part always gets ignored.

So who are they going to give? They have to give SOMETHING.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I agree the Panthers are interested. Management is also quoted numerous times saying which prospects aren't being traded, but for whatever reason that part always gets ignored.

Because it’s great policy to name all the prospects you’re willing to trade. Fantastic for moral!

Remember it’s easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission.

 

[Laurentide]

We already know the Panthers are very interested in Pacioretty, it's for a reason. Their fans may not like it, but I seriously doubt they would be linked to Pacioretty if they aren't going to give a package somewhat worthwhile.

Media pundits always frame their trade speculation around relationships or commonalities. That's why any Francophone player rumored to be on the market is automatically linked to the Habs. If a player's best friend plays for another team, that's a potential clue as to where he might want to sign as a free agent. If General Manager A had a previous working relationship with General Manager B or Player C, that's another potential link.

Most of the time, these links end up coming to nothing because money always wins, whether it's about trying to fit a salary into your cap or being able to offer a free agent the best deal. But with Bergevin, there's fire to go with that smoke because he is so prone to cronyism. Like I said yesterday, the only reason we ended up with Shaw instead of Roussel was because Bergevin didn't have a previous working relationship with Roussel like he did with Shaw. The Florida rumors around Pacioretty won't go away primarily because of two factors: Pacioretty himself has a residence in Florida and, most importantly, Bergevin used to work with Tallon.

Remember what I wrote yesterday. This is how you end up on the Habs' payroll:

1. Friend of Bergevin
2. Ex-teammate of Bergevin
3. Son of ex-teammate of Bergevin
4. Played for Chicago when Bergevin was there
5. Francophone with appropriate attitude/character/respect

 

[Habs Halifax]

IMO, in taking on both Lucic and Sekera, and giving Pacioretty, Byron and Schlemko as well, MON is getting too little in return for the favour. Bergevin would get crucified and Chiarelli would suddenly go from goat to genius.

The depth up front with the addition of both Pacioretty and Byron (potentially 50+ goals), plus a veteran D with positional flexibility in Schlemko on not too bad a contract (2 years left at 2.1M) and the promise of becoming the Real Schlemko again, AND a 3.733M net Cap savings in the process to help re-sign Nurse and/or pay for the Pacioretty extension (5.403M net saving if Byron isnMt resigned and flipped for futures at the deadline instead) is a favour I wouldn't do for my own Mother!

When you're up to your neck in Cap trouble like EDM, at some point, it becomes a lot less about what you are willing to do and more about what you are willing to give for a team to let you climb out of Cap hell. Besides, EDM fans would start a cult dedicated to Chiarelli if he was able to unload both Lucic and Sekera's albatross contracts in one single trade!

I understand that EDM fans say they wouldn't trade RNH or a D like Klefbom or Nurse, but they will need to give from an area of strength to get immediate roster help and Cap relief at the same time.

Patch, Byron, Schlemko for the 10th pick, Puljujarvi, and other futures. Don't care about Lucic and Sekera. They are a necessary evil to help us acquire the futures while we rebuild. Oilers will not be interested in trading the 10th pick, Puljujarvi, and other future assets if they are not able to create cap space to further help them make improvements around McDavid.

Didn't say I loved the translation, the point was trying to address our re-build and also addressing the Oilers needs. Takes two side to make a deal.

 

[Scriptor]

So who are they going to give? They have to give SOMETHING.

Saying tat you are not trading such and such a prospect when you already have youthful depth at the position that they play is just positioning to get the greatest value for the player.

For example, if Bergevin wants Trochek for Pacioretty, or Borgström (who is projected as an eventual #2C, not a #1C, by most scouts) and your #1 round pick, saying you would never trade Borgström is surely a way to get the 1st round pick out of the talks, or to get MON to add their #35 pick to the deal to compensate for the loss of the 1st rounder.

It's an example of what potentially might be going on, but not necessarily what actually is going on.

I would certainly talk up my C prospect before trading him to get the most value for him on the trade block. Keep in mind that there is another expansion draft coming up and that Borgström, if he is draft eligible by then, won't be protected before the two other Cs already in the top-6.

 

[Scriptor]

Patch, Byron, Schlemko for the 10th pick, Puljujarvi, and other futures. Don't care about Lucic and Sekera. They are a necessary evil to help us acquire the futures while we rebuild. Oilers will not be interested in trading the 10th pick, Puljujarvi, and other future assets if they are not able to create cap space to further help them make improvements around McDavid.

Didn't say I loved the translation, the point was trying to address our re-build and also addressing the Oilers needs. Takes two side to make a deal.

Agreed. Just think that you're pulling the covers on EDM's side of the bed way too much with the proposal you listed as an example.

Helping EDM get rid of Sekera's 5.5M contract, which EDM fans would blow you for, and providing a rental like Pacioretty in the process at 1M less should be enough to wrangle the 10th overall and a Puljujarvi, IMO. Taking on the extra 6M Cap hit in a slew-footed Lucic makes no sense, unless you actually like the player's potential to make our team better for the next five years (which I don't). Getting rid of Schlemko's contract isn't a priority, and he likely could be moved elsewhere if we really needed to do so.

I just think you are being much too generous and actually SOLVING the Cap crunch for the Oilers in the process. I would have seen an Oils fan make that proposal so they could clear their mind of Cap worries and start concentrating on winning the Cup again.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Agreed. Just think that you're pulling the covers on EDM's side of the bed way too much with the proposal you listed as an example.

Helping EDM get rid of Sekera's 5.5M contract, which EDM fans would blow you for, and providing a rental like Pacioretty in the process at 1M less should be enough to wrangle the 10th overall and a Puljujarvi, IMO. Taking on the extra 6M Cap hit in a slew-footed Lucic makes no sense, unless you actually like the player's potential to make our team better for the next five years (which I don't). Getting rid of Schlemko's contract isn't a priority, and he likely could be moved elsewhere if we really needed to do so.

I just think you are being much too generous and actually SOLVING the Cap crunch for the Oilers in the process. I would have seen an Oils fan make that proposal so they could clear their mind of Cap worries and start concentrating on winning the Cup again.

Think about this... Oilers prefer not to trade the 10th pick for Galchenyuk. They will not be willing to trade the 10th pick, Pool Party, and other futures very easily. Habs can sit back and be patient or we can make the moves it takes to get the futures we need right now. The added salary means nothing to the Habs who will be re-building. And you need to consider that the other futures could be another 1st round pick as well... even if it's a late 1st. Flyers did very well with trading Schenn and his 3 year contract left for two 1st's

I don't think a Patch for the 10th pick and Nurse or Klefbom is on the table. Oilers need improvements on D, not to deplete them. What I showed you was just one example on how a deal could work with them... maybe. Heck, they might not even like the trade anyways

 

[Beezeral]

Take what your GM says with a grain of salt. No gm is gonna come out and say were trading this player until they get moved. MB said subban wasn't getting traded....

I love seeing this response. Nevermind that the two situations couldn't be any more different. Subban was the face of the franchise who was constantly speculated to be on the block and had become a polarizing figure. Bergevin had to say something because the vultures were circling.

None of that applies to this situation. All Tallon had to do was not hype Borgstrom as the next big young gun and he could have traded him without 1/2 the fanbase having any idea who he is.

And I'll say the same thing I have been saying for over a month, if the Panthers were willing to trade Borgstrom or Heponiemi for Patches, why didn't that deal get done at the deadline? And don't say because Bergevin wanted trocheck, we all know that was a terrible ask that was never happening and we also have post deadline comments from tallon saying that every deal he worked on asked for one of his top prospects that was a non-starter.

So who are they going to give? They have to give SOMETHING.

I agree, a potential deal would require the Panthers to give something. It doesn't mean they have to give their premium prospects that would fetch them a much better player if they made them available to other teams. That is the disconnect that is happening here and in every Patches to the Panthers trade thread on the main trade board.

Because it’s great policy to name all the prospects you’re willing to trade. Fantastic for moral!

Remember it’s easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission.

You are right. It's much better to hype those prospects up to the fanbase all season and talk non-stop about how excited you are to add them to the lineup only to turn around and trade one of them for a 30 year old coming off his worst season in a long time. That's a great way to get the fanbase back on your side when you still have the expansion draft disaster hanging over your head.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I love seeing this response. Nevermind that the two situations couldn't be any more different. Subban was the face of the franchise who was constantly speculated to be on the block and had become a polarizing figure. Bergevin had to say something because the vultures were circling.

None of that applies to this situation. All Tallon had to do was not hype Borgstrom as the next big young gun and he could have traded him without 1/2 the fanbase having any idea who he is.

And I'll say the same thing I have been saying for over a month, if the Panthers were willing to trade Borgstrom or Heponiemi for Patches, why didn't that deal get done at the deadline? And don't say because Bergevin wanted trocheck, we all know that was a terrible ask that was never happening and we also have post deadline comments from tallon saying that every deal he worked on asked for one of his top prospects that was a non-starter.

I agree, a potential deal would require the Panthers to give something. It doesn't mean they have to give their premium prospects that would fetch them a much better player if they made them available to other teams. That is the disconnect that is happening here and in every Patches to the Panthers trade thread on the main trade board.
You are right. It's much better to hype those prospects up to the fanbase all season and talk non-stop about how excited you are to add them to the lineup only to turn around and trade one of them for a 30 year old coming off his worst season in a long time. That's a great way to get the fanbase back on your side when you still have the expansion draft disaster hanging over your head.

According to your strategy... I expect the Panthers to be stuck in the middle of the pack during the prime years of Huberdeau, Barkov, Trocheck, Ekblad. Why? Cause you will play the patient game waiting for the perfect deal. Replace Patch with another talent that is similar and the asking price is something you will not accept. So wait for UFA and see what's available and try not to overpay to get that player cause you won't be the only team.

Habs fans know wasted years. We had Price, Subban, Patch and we failed to add the pieces around them to turn us into legit contenders. In about 4 or 5 years, you will be trying to trade Huberdeau just like we are with Patch today. Good luck with your strategy

 

[Laurentide]

I love seeing this response. Nevermind that the two situations couldn't be any more different. Subban was the face of the franchise who was constantly speculated to be on the block and had become a polarizing figure. Bergevin had to say something because the vultures were circling.

None of that applies to this situation. All Tallon had to do was not hype Borgstrom as the next big young gun and he could have traded him without 1/2 the fanbase having any idea who he is.

And I'll say the same thing I have been saying for over a month, if the Panthers were willing to trade Borgstrom or Heponiemi for Patches, why didn't that deal get done at the deadline? And don't say because Bergevin wanted trocheck, we all know that was a terrible ask that was never happening and we also have post deadline comments from tallon saying that every deal he worked on asked for one of his top prospects that was a non-starter.



I agree, a potential deal would require the Panthers to give something. It doesn't mean they have to give their premium prospects that would fetch them a much better player if they made them available to other teams. That is the disconnect that is happening here and in every Patches to the Panthers trade thread on the main trade board.
You are right. It's much better to hype those prospects up to the fanbase all season and talk non-stop about how excited you are to add them to the lineup only to turn around and trade one of them for a 30 year old coming off his worst season in a long time. That's a great way to get the fanbase back on your side when you still have the expansion draft disaster hanging over your head.

Your post assumes many things, mostly that Tallon and Bergevin aren't idiots despite plenty of proof to the contrary. You also assume that the Panthers' fanbase, such as it is, even follows what the team does in the off-season. I somehow doubt that the phone lines to the sports call-in shows on Miami radio stations are burning up with talk about what the Panthers are doing leading to the draft and free agency. In Miami it's the Dolphins, the Heat, the U and then, if they have time, everything else (Marlins, Panthers, an MLS team if they have one, jai-alai) so Tallon isn't under any pressure to keep or get rid of anyone. Borgstrom can still walk the streets of South Beach in anonymity just like he could before Tallon talked him up in the press. Nobody was paying attention then or now.

 

[Beezeral]

According to your strategy... I expect the Panthers to be stuck in the middle of the pack during the prime years of Huberdeau, Barkov, Trocheck, Ekblad. Why? Cause you will play the patient game waiting for the perfect deal. Replace Patch with another talent that is similar and the asking price is something you will not accept. So wait for UFA and see what's available and try not to overpay to get that player cause you won't be the only team.

Habs fans know wasted years. We had Price, Subban, Patch and we failed to add the pieces around them to turn us into legit contenders. In about 4 or 5 years, you will be trying to trade Huberdeau just like we are with Patch today. Good luck with your strategy

who said anything about waiting for a perfect deal? All I'm saying is if that the Panthers are willing to trade their top prospects, they can and should shoot much higher than Patches. If the roles were reversed, you would be doing the same. Patches is not the guy you overpay for. Sorry.

 

[Habs Halifax]

who said anything about waiting for a perfect deal? All I'm saying is if that the Panthers are willing to trade their top prospects, they can and should shoot much higher than Patches. If the roles were reversed, you would be doing the same. Patches is not the guy you overpay for. Sorry.

The narrative you presented makes me think you are waiting and being patient. The overpay value is debatable BTW. Sorry

I'll throw you this (not even sure if Habs fans like it or not)... Patch for the 15th pick, Mascherin, and Bjugstad? Would you make this deal or are you saying you make no deal at all? This is only if we are able to get Mascherin on a ELC before June 1st.

 

[Beezeral]

Your post assumes many things, mostly that Tallon and Bergevin aren't idiots despite plenty of proof to the contrary. You also assume that the Panthers' fanbase, such as it is, even follows what the team does in the off-season. I somehow doubt that the phone lines to the sports call-in shows on Miami radio stations are burning up with talk about what the Panthers are doing leading to the draft and free agency. In Miami it's the Dolphins, the Heat, the U and then, if they have time, everything else (Marlins, Panthers, an MLS team if they have one, jai-alai) so Tallon isn't under any pressure to keep or get rid of anyone. Borgstrom can still walk the streets of South Beach in anonymity just like he could before Tallon talked him up in the press. Nobody was paying attention then or now.

how is any of this relevant to actual Panthers fans? You know the ones that actually follow the team? I don't assume anything. I am going off of words directly out of the mouth of management. The only ones making assumptions are habs fans who think the Panthers MUST trade for Patches or be doomed to mediocrity and the Habs fans who say that the words coming out of Tallon's mouth is a lie because Bergevin lied about trading Subban.

 

[Beezeral]

The narrative you presented makes me think you are waiting and being patient. The overpay value is debatable BTW. Sorry

I'll throw you this (not even sure if Habs fans like it or not)... Patch for the 15th pick, Mascherin, and Bjugstad? Would you make this deal or are you saying you make no deal at all? This is only if we are able to get Mascherin on a ELC before June 1st.

No, the narrative I presented is that the Panthers have made their stance clear that they don't believe Patches is worth the tier of prospect Habs fans keep asking for.

To your credit you seem to realize that Borgstrom/heponiemi for Patches straight up isn't happening, but you still end up offering the same proposal as everyone else by throwing filler assets in that the Panthers don't need.

As for your last point, I don't know what the Panthers are going to do. I just have a good idea of what they won't do. And I'm not saying there isn't a deal to be made. I'm sure there is, but it's not going to be the deal that Habs fans keep thinking is going to happen.

 

[Habs Halifax]

how is any of this relevant to actual Panthers fans? You know the ones that actually follow the team? I don't assume anything. I am going off of words directly out of the mouth of management. The only ones making assumptions are habs fans who think the Panthers MUST trade for Patches or be doomed to mediocrity and the Habs fans who say that the words coming out of Tallon's mouth is a lie because Bergevin lied about trading Subban.

Actually, Habs fans were not the ones who started the Patch to Panthers rumors. I believe Friedman first reported this pre trade deadline. You can question his credibility if you wish and most would. He said his sources told him the Panthers are in on Patch. When you factor in that the Panthers were 15th in offense this year, you wonder if goal scoring was the reason why you missed the playoffs. But then again you were 18th in defense so it appears you need help on both fronts if you ask me.

 

[David Suzuki]

No, the narrative I presented is that the Panthers have made their stance clear that they don't believe Patches is worth the tier of prospect Habs fans keep asking for.

To your credit you seem to realize that Borgstrom/heponiemi for Patches straight up isn't happening, but you still end up offering the same proposal as everyone else by throwing filler assets in that the Panthers don't need.

As for your last point, I don't know what the Panthers are going to do. I just have a good idea of what they won't do. And I'm not saying there isn't a deal to be made. I'm sure there is, but it's not going to be the deal that Habs fans keep thinking is going to happen.

Look man if the proposals people post are making you this upset you can just leave the habs/trade board.

Cheers.

 

[Habs Halifax]

To your credit you seem to realize that Borgstrom/heponiemi for Patches straight up isn't happening, but you still end up offering the same proposal as everyone else by throwing filler assets in that the Panthers don't need.

This is where you are hard headed. Various Habs fans has ask... if not Borgstrom or Heponiemi, then who? You are way to focused on being the Borgstrom and Heponiemi policeman. It's ridiculous how you don't understand the questions people are asking you.

So it's clear now. You avoid the trade discussions and are only interested in trolling Habs fans about Borgstrom and Heponiemi. You avoid all potential trade offers and keep on bringing it back to the same comment. Who's the one who can't move on past this? You are! It's beyond me you are allowed to do this on our boards.

 

[Beezeral]

Look man if the proposals people post are making you this upset you can just leave the habs/trade board.

Cheers.

I'm not upset. I enjoy talking hockey even if I have to repeat the same point many times because some posters either are new to the convo or refuse to acknowledge the evidence that has been presented to them.

Actually, Habs fans were not the ones who started the Patch to Panthers rumors. I believe Friedman first reported this pre trade deadline. You can question his credibility if you wish and most would. He said his sources told him the Panthers are in on Patch. When you factor in that the Panthers were 15th in offense this year, you wonder if goal scoring was the reason why you missed the playoffs. But then again you were 18th in defense so it appears you need help on both fronts if you ask me.

I don't question his credibility. It's well known the Panthers called about Patches at the deadline. The only point I have tried to make again and again ITT is that the Panthers have made their stance clear that Borgstrom/Heponiemi/Tippett are not available in a trade. Friedman may have started the fire, but Habs fans are the ones all over the HF trade board, ITT, and on Twitter thinking that one of the players that are previously mentioned as not being available for Patches are going to be part of a Patches trade.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm not upset. I enjoy talking hockey even if I have to repeat the same point many times because some posters either are new to the convo or refuse to acknowledge the evidence that has been presented to them.


I don't question his credibility. It's well known the Panthers called about Patches at the deadline. The only point I have tried to make again and again ITT is that the Panthers have made their stance clear that Borgstrom/Heponiemi/Tippett are not available in a trade. Friedman may have started the fire, but Habs fans are the ones all over the HF trade board, ITT, and on Twitter thinking that one of the players that are previously mentioned as not being available for Patches are going to be part of a Patches trade.

You are not talking Hockey. You are trolling Habs fans over asking for Borgstrom and Hepo for Patch and you avoid any offer of your own. It's very clear. So tell us, why are you so interested in talking about Patch trade rumors on the Habs boards and no offer of your own?

Started out as Borgstrom. Now Hepo. In about a week, you will add Gildon.