Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Gearing Up for the Off-season Editon

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Beezeral

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This is where you are hard headed. Various Habs fans has ask... if not Borgstrom or Heponiemi, then who? You are way to focused on being the Borgstrom and Heponiemi policeman. It's ridiculous how you don't understand the questions people are asking you.

So it's clear now. You avoid the trade discussions and are only interested in trolling Habs fans about Borgstrom and Heponiemi. You avoid all potential trade offers and keep on bringing it back to the same comment. Who's the one who can't move on past this? You are! It's beyond me you are allowed to do this on our boards.

alright, lets have the discussion then.
ll throw you this (not even sure if Habs fans like it or not)... Patch for the 15th pick, Mascherin, and Bjugstad?
I don't know on this one. Bjugstad just had a bounce back season. Bjugstad is a Tallon darling and is a big reason for the expansion draft blunder. It would be a bad look to turn around and trade him along with a 1st round pick for a 30 year old rental. Even without the baggage, I don't think the value is there. A first and an upper tier middle 6 player is a lot to give for Patches given his baggage that has been discussed ad-nauseum. However, I also remove Macherin from the equation because he's two days from going back to the draft. A Patches deal isn't happening before the draft. Mascherin is going back to the draft unless he's already found a team that he wants to play for and that team is waiting until the 11th hour to offer the Panthers a 7th round pick knowing they have no choice but to take it or lose the asset for nothing.

The way I see a Patches for Bjugstad and a 1st deal happening is if there is a corresponding deal somewhere else bringing in a top 4 D-man who has term. The problem becomes that 1st round pick likely is part of that deal which takes pick 15 off the table. So you have the problem.
 

Beezeral

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You are not talking Hockey. You are trolling Habs fans over asking for Borgstrom and Hepo for Patch and you avoid any offer of your own. It's very clear. So tell us, why are you so interested in talking about Patch trade rumors on the Habs boards and no offer of your own?

Started out as Borgstrom. Now Hepo. In about a week, you will add Gildon.
Gildon has not been mentioned as being on the untouchable list. I don't see him being traded because he's pretty much the only D-man prospect with NHL potential in the pipeline. I think it is hard to put him in a Patches deal because of that, but its certainly in the realm of possibility.
 

Habs Halifax

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Gildon has not been mentioned as being on the untouchable list. I don't see him being traded because he's pretty much the only D-man prospect with NHL potential in the pipeline. I think it is hard to put him in a Patches deal because of that, but its certainly in the realm of possibility.

Why do you think I didn't ask for Gildon who would also address the Habs needs? Cause the Panthers trading one of the center prospects is a position of strength and defense is not.
 

Habs Halifax

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alright, lets have the discussion then.

I don't know on this one. Bjugstad just had a bounce back season. Bjugstad is a Tallon darling and is a big reason for the expansion draft blunder. It would be a bad look to turn around and trade him along with a 1st round pick for a 30 year old rental. Even without the baggage, I don't think the value is there. A first and an upper tier middle 6 player is a lot to give for Patches given his baggage that has been discussed ad-nauseum. However, I also remove Macherin from the equation because he's two days from going back to the draft. A Patches deal isn't happening before the draft. Mascherin is going back to the draft unless he's already found a team that he wants to play for and that team is waiting until the 11th hour to offer the Panthers a 7th round pick knowing they have no choice but to take it or lose the asset for nothing.

The way I see a Patches for Bjugstad and a 1st deal happening is if there is a corresponding deal somewhere else bringing in a top 4 D-man who has term. The problem becomes that 1st round pick likely is part of that deal which takes pick 15 off the table. So you have the problem.

So what is your offer for Patch again?
 

Beezeral

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Why do you think I didn't ask for Gildon who would also address the Habs needs? Cause the Panthers trading one of the center prospects is a position of strength and defense is not.
I was only talking about from the Panthers point of view. And yes I know the Panthers have excess forward depth. It doesn't mean they trade the top end of it for whoever they can find. I'm also sure there are forwards beneath the top 3 that people keep clamoring for who may also satisfy bergevin but I don't know enough about them and I'm almost certain you don't so there is no point discussing it.
 

Sterling Archer

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I love seeing this response. Nevermind that the two situations couldn't be any more different. Subban was the face of the franchise who was constantly speculated to be on the block and had become a polarizing figure. Bergevin had to say something because the vultures were circling.

None of that applies to this situation. All Tallon had to do was not hype Borgstrom as the next big young gun and he could have traded him without 1/2 the fanbase having any idea who he is.

And I'll say the same thing I have been saying for over a month, if the Panthers were willing to trade Borgstrom or Heponiemi for Patches, why didn't that deal get done at the deadline? And don't say because Bergevin wanted trocheck, we all know that was a terrible ask that was never happening and we also have post deadline comments from tallon saying that every deal he worked on asked for one of his top prospects that was a non-starter.

Do you think maaaaaaybe by hyping Borgstrom, you're kind of elevating his value so he'll be worth more in a trade and Bergevin will be hard pressed to ask for as many pieces.

As for why the trade didn't happen who knows. Maybe it was more than Tallon was willing to give at the time if it was Trochek but giving up Borgstrom plus is more palatable for a team looking/needing to make a legitimate run for a fan base that is, with all due respect, pretty woeful. Nothing against Fla but it's hard for any team to bring in fans when you're losing, Montreal included. So if giving up an unproven player can get you a top 10 NHL goal scorer who wants to come to your team and sign for the long term, than you'd be hard pressed to explain to the same fan base why you're perpetually drafting/developing and not pushing to win when you have the opportunity not to mention the increased revenues from the playoffs and more fans to a team who is winning NOW.

I agree, a potential deal would require the Panthers to give something. It doesn't mean they have to give their premium prospects that would fetch them a much better player if they made them available to other teams. That is the disconnect that is happening here and in every Patches to the Panthers trade thread on the main trade board.
You are right. It's much better to hype those prospects up to the fanbase all season and talk non-stop about how excited you are to add them to the lineup only to turn around and trade one of them for a 30 year old coming off his worst season in a long time. That's a great way to get the fanbase back on your side when you still have the expansion draft disaster hanging over your head.

If you want a premium player, it's going to cost you premium assets. You have to give to get and you're nt going to get Patches for mid level prospects and a mid 1st pick. We're better off keeping him if that's the best offer.

Justifying Patches to Fla fan base would be exceptionally easy. First off, it's not a very large, knowledgeable fan base. There isn't a whole lot of media coverage on top of that. Saying you're "all in now" and you've already developed a farm full of prospects to get to the point where you can trade some pieces to fill holes is just about the easiest argument you can make to any fan base and bring in some hype and fanfare to get more butts in the seats. It's what any respectable management team would do to drive sales and try to get a competitive product on the ice and be more viable and profitable as a franchise. Having a top NHL American goal scorer to promote and market is never a bad idea from a business perspective or an on ice product. Bet he scores 40 next year playing with a legit center like Barkov, then lets see fans whine about losing Borgstrom and a 1st...
 

Beezeral

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Mar 1, 2010
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Do you think maaaaaaybe by hyping Borgstrom, you're kind of elevating his value so he'll be worth more in a trade and Bergevin will be hard pressed to ask for as many pieces.

As for why the trade didn't happen who knows. Maybe it was more than Tallon was willing to give at the time if it was Trochek but giving up Borgstrom plus is more palatable for a team looking/needing to make a legitimate run for a fan base that is, with all due respect, pretty woeful. Nothing against Fla but it's hard for any team to bring in fans when you're losing, Montreal included. So if giving up an unproven player can get you a top 10 NHL goal scorer who wants to come to your team and sign for the long term, than you'd be hard pressed to explain to the same fan base why you're perpetually drafting/developing and not pushing to win when you have the opportunity not to mention the increased revenues from the playoffs and more fans to a team who is winning NOW.
So Tallon wasn't willing to give up Borgstrom for the possibility of 2 playoff runs but he's now willing to do it for just one? That makes zero sense. This is where the argument continually falls apart on your end. Habs fans don't have a decent answer on why the deal didn't get done at the deadline.

If you want a premium player, it's going to cost you premium assets. You have to give to get and you're nt going to get Patches for mid level prospects and a mid 1st pick. We're better off keeping him if that's the best offer.
He was a premium player 2 seasons ago. Last year he was terrible. He still holds good value because he is a multi-time 30 goal scorer. But he's 30 and needs a new deal or is a pure rental. People don't trade premium assets for that.

Justifying Patches to Fla fan base would be exceptionally easy. First off, it's not a very large, knowledgeable fan base.
This comment fits every stereotype of a fan from Canada who thinks sun belt fans are beneath them. Yes our fanbase is small, but the ones who are fans are extremely dedicated and know our stuff. Yes, just like every sports fanbase you have fans who follow the NHL team and don't pay attention to the minors/draft but that's why the organization has been hyping these kids all year. They are trying to build buzz among the fans who just follow the NHL team.
Saying you're "all in now" and you've already developed a farm full of prospects to get to the point where you can trade some pieces to fill holes is just about the easiest argument you can make to any fan base and bring in some hype and fanfare to get more butts in the seats.
Another poor argument. One, the fans who follow the team are gonna look at this and say, you traded Borgstrom for this guy? The guy who is coming off a terrible season and wants a new contract? Our small fanbase would riot. They are going to see right through the all-in argument because we know going all-in should bring back a younger player of a similar caliber.

As for bringing in non-panther fans, they would yawn at the name Pacioretty. The Panthers could sign Tavares this offseason and it wouldn't get real attention from the non-hockey fans until the Panthers started winning. I understand the SFL market way more then you do. Might be a good idea not to try and lecture me on what would sell tickets in this town when you don't really know.
 

Beezeral

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Being a homer is one thing, but why bother lurking and posting if your going to make nonsensical posts like this?
he begged and begged for me to post an offer. I refrained because I knew habs fans wouldn't like it. But the reality is I don't see the Panthers spending their best assets (including their first round pick) on Patches unless they strike out everywhere else. I apologize for the offer you don't like, but at some point I had to give the guy what he wanted so he would stop being difficult about it
 

SakuKoivu11

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There’s a Rumor from NYI that they want to get into top 5 potentially selecting one of Tkachuk Zadina or Svechnikov. It’s highly likely that Tavares will leave and they want a winger to build around with their new franchise player Matthew Barzal.

A news I think Sportsnet or hockeynews mentioned both Islanders first round picks are in play. I still don’t think that’s enough but if they offer #11, #12 and second round pick? I think we should listen. Kotkaniemi and Smith and a high second rounder would be a great start.
 
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NobleSix

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There’s a Rumor from NYI that they want to get into top 5 potentially selecting one of Tkachuk Zadina or Svechnikov. It’s highly likely that Tavares will leave and they want a winger to build around with their new franchise player Matthew Barzal.

A news I think Sportsnet or hockeynews mentioned both Islanders first round picks are in play. I still don’t think that’s enough but if they offer #11, #12 and second round pick? I think we should listen. Kotkaniemi and Smith and a high second rounder would be a great start.

Kotkaniemi wont be there at 11.

I personally don't have much interest in moving down from 3 to outside of the top 10. That's honestly a pretty massive drop off in talent. The lowest I would move down to is probably 8, and even then it would have to be some serious over-payment for our 3rd OV.

I'd rather just keep the pick to be honest.
 

HabsWhiteKnightLOL

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There’s a Rumor from NYI that they want to get into top 5 potentially selecting one of Tkachuk Zadina or Svechnikov. It’s highly likely that Tavares will leave and they want a winger to build around with their new franchise player Matthew Barzal.

A news I think Sportsnet or hockeynews mentioned both Islanders first round picks are in play. I still don’t think that’s enough but if they offer #11, #12 and second round pick? I think we should listen. Kotkaniemi and Smith and a high second rounder would be a great start.

no we should not listen

we already have 4 2nd picks and picking top 3 is way better than 11 and 12.

Montreal would need a nhl hockey player young in return for that

Example (a center under 25 year olds who scores already)
 

Laurentide

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Isn't this supposed to be a weak draft year? The top 3 might become the only ones from the first round who even make an impact. Even at #3, there is some doubt as to whether Zadina will be an everyday NHL player until at least next year. Dahlin and Svetchnikov seem to be the only NHL-ready, can't miss, lead pipe cinches out there. I'd be okay with trying to move up but I have zero interest in moving down and I am not in favor of trading assets in order to get more picks in a mediocre draft class.
 
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blarneylad

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He was a premium player 2 seasons ago. Last year he was terrible. He still holds good value because he is a multi-time 30 goal scorer. But he's 30 and needs a new deal or is a pure rental. People don't trade premium assets for that.
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They actually do all the time. Rick Nash being a prime example. And for Bergevin to trade a guy like Pacioretty within the Eastern Conference will cost something too.

As fans of the habs, we recognize (quite obviously) that center is our biggest hole. So it is natural to see a match between Fla and Mon. Fla gets a elite scorer and really shores up their top 6 without losing a roster player. But if that just isn't something Tallon is willing to do then the deal doesn't happen. We can argue logistics which btw you've made great points.

But at the end of the day Pacioretty certainly is worth one of Borgstrom/Heponiemi plus the 1st.
 

HomeAndHome

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I could see the Arizona 2nd and a Middle 6 player like McCann/Vatrano.

he begged and begged for me to post an offer. I refrained because I knew habs fans wouldn't like it. But the reality is I don't see the Panthers spending their best assets (including their first round pick) on Patches unless they strike out everywhere else. I apologize for the offer you don't like, but at some point I had to give the guy what he wanted so he would stop being difficult about it
You continually shoot down and lecture Habs fans for proposals being unrealistic, but can't present a realistic offer yourself? Stop being so hypocritical. We all know your stance by now that you only want Patches for pennies and Florida's center prospects are off the table, why not move on if that's all you have to say.
 

HomeAndHome

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Kotkaniemi wont be there at 11.

I personally don't have much interest in moving down from 3 to outside of the top 10. That's honestly a pretty massive drop off in talent. The lowest I would move down to is probably 8, and even then it would have to be some serious over-payment for our 3rd OV.

I'd rather just keep the pick to be honest.
I agree, I'm not against moving back for an over-payment but I don't want to drop out of the top 10.

IMO we need some prospects with a very high chance of being impact players in a couple years because we don't have much in the pipeline, I'd much rather take my chances with pick #3 than picks 11+12 being that player.
 
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Sterling Archer

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So Tallon wasn't willing to give up Borgstrom for the possibility of 2 playoff runs but he's now willing to do it for just one? That makes zero sense. This is where the argument continually falls apart on your end. Habs fans don't have a decent answer on why the deal didn't get done at the deadline.
Fact: You don't know what was asked and what was offered. Hence, you cannot say boo about why it didn't happen. Maybe the ask was Trochek AND Borgstrom and Tallon didn't want to give up a center or established roster player and upset the team balance. We just don't know but saying a deal didn't happen then so it won't happen in the summer is just plain silly.

He was a premium player 2 seasons ago. Last year he was terrible. He still holds good value because he is a multi-time 30 goal scorer. But he's 30 and needs a new deal or is a pure rental. People don't trade premium assets for that.
This is wrong on so many levels, it's hilarious. Those are just about the only players who do get a premium. If you're a star player in the middle of your best years, you almost never get traded and when you do it's for the farm. Fact is that it's mostly players like Patches who get the premium payout. They're a proven commodity and the team getting him knows exactly what they're going to get. Certainty costs money and it's the reason why nearly every trade where the team getting the best player in the deal is almost always the one who wins the trade. The rule of thumb is quality over quantity and it's almost always the case. Patches would almost certainly be the best player involved in any trade for a package.

The funniest and most ignorant part of this comment is that you wouldn't be able to name me a player whose accomplished as much as Patches who's been traded in recent memory and anyone who has got a huge haul and were far older than Patches at 29. How many top 10 NHL goal scorers have been moved in the past 5 years?? To think he isn't worth anything is beyond dumb.


This comment fits every stereotype of a fan from Canada who thinks sun belt fans are beneath them. Yes our fanbase is small, but the ones who are fans are extremely dedicated and know our stuff. Yes, just like every sports fanbase you have fans who follow the NHL team and don't pay attention to the minors/draft but that's why the organization has been hyping these kids all year. They are trying to build buzz among the fans who just follow the NHL team.
It's not a stereotype, it's a fact. Ranking the NHL's fan bases, from 1 to 30 | The Hockey News
Don't beleive me, go to a game when their playing Habs, Leafs etc and you'll have a far larger fan base show up for those teams than the home team. I have a place in Sunny Isles and go to a few games a year. I've seen it in person and it's still shocking how empty the place is for the average game. Better team = more fans. That's pretty basic...


Another poor argument. One, the fans who follow the team are gonna look at this and say, you traded Borgstrom for this guy? The guy who is coming off a terrible season and wants a new contract? Our small fanbase would riot. They are going to see right through the all-in argument because we know going all-in should bring back a younger player of a similar caliber.
There's an article where a reporter asked several NHL GM's whether they thought Patches poor year would effect his trade value. Not one of them did. To a man they all said it was a bad year and an anomaly for an otherwise incredibly consistent player. Bad year sometimes happen. In fact, they happen to EVERY player. Think Ekblad was terrible and worthless in 2016-2017 when his numbers sucked?
68101121-23
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Hadly superstar numbers. He still hadn't proved he was a consistently elite player and then had a crappy year. From what I can see, Patches would be your second best offensive player behind Barkov (Trockeck has 1 year better than Patches) as he's a consistent 30-60 guy for his career except for one year when the team imploded. Get some perspective.

As for bringing in non-panther fans, they would yawn at the name Pacioretty. The Panthers could sign Tavares this offseason and it wouldn't get real attention from the non-hockey fans until the Panthers started winning. I understand the SFL market way more then you do. Might be a good idea not to try and lecture me on what would sell tickets in this town when you don't really know.

If the casual Panthers fan is yawning at Patches as a ho-hum player, then stereotypes you purport are even worse in Florida than I thought and your fan base is even less knowledgeable.

So winning and scoring goals won't bring in fans, nor will bringing in Tavares becasue the average fan won't know who he is??? I'll remind you of this above comment you made right here...
Another poor argument. One, the fans who follow the team are gonna look at this and say, you traded Borgstrom for this guy? The guy who is coming off a terrible season and wants a new contract? Our small fanbase would riot. They are going to see right through the all-in argument because we know going all-in should bring back a younger player of a similar caliber.
Bring in Patches gets you WINNING NOW, not in a few years when Borgstrom breaks into the league and can make a difference and your core is another 2-3 years older. Few available players would have more impact right now than Patches. Borgstrom may not ever become an impact player in the NHL.
 

Beezeral

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That's just as ridiculous as Habs fans wanting Borgstrom. You say that you never claimed that Pacioretty would be going for garbage, but that right there is a garbage proposal.
It’s not garbage. It’s a very early 2nd and a young center that still has potential. I completely get why you would scoff at it and won’t argue against you wanting more. Pick 15 and a solid prospect that isn’t one of the panthers top guys also works, but I think the panthers are more likely to use that pick in a trade for a defenseman.

The problem with all this speculation is that it seems that patches isn’t the first priority for the panthers. He wasn’t at the deadline (mcdonagh) and I don’t think he will be during the offseason.
 

The Great Weal

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It’s not garbage. It’s a very early 2nd and a young center that still has potential. I completely get why you would scoff at it and won’t argue against you wanting more. Pick 15 and a solid prospect that isn’t one of the panthers top guys also works, but I think the panthers are more likely to use that pick in a trade for a defenseman.

The problem with all this speculation is that it seems that patches isn’t the first priority for the panthers. He wasn’t at the deadline (mcdonagh) and I don’t think he will be during the offseason.
It is absolutely f***ing terrible. Not even a 1st? I've seen 4th liners get more than that awful package. That young center has no potential and fills absolutely no need as a bottom 6 forward, we are already set. It's hilarious how you talk about not seeing the reasoning for the Panthers to make a trade when your proposal does the exact same thing for the Habs. Hypocrisy at its finest. A very early 2nd serves no need for us, we already have 2 early 2nds and 2 other 2nds. You can say whatever you want as a priority for the Panthers, they were evidently very interested in Pacioretty.
 

Beezeral

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It is absolutely ****ing terrible. Not even a 1st? I've seen 4th liners get more than that awful package. That young center has no potential and fills absolutely no need as a bottom 6 forward, we are already set. It's hilarious how you talk about not seeing the reasoning for the Panthers to make a trade when your proposal does the exact same thing for the Habs. Hypocrisy at its finest. A very early 2nd serves no need for us, we already have 2 early 2nds and 2 other 2nds. You can say whatever you want as a priority for the Panthers, they were evidently very interested in Pacioretty.
cool. Let's change it to pick 15 and McCann then and assume the pick isn't used for another deal. I agree that the difference between the early 2nd and the mid 1st is a big deal value wise and it was a mistake to post the original potential deal. As for saying McCann has no potential, that's just wrong. He is definitely not a sexy asset to acquire, but he's an NHL player who can still become a #2 center
 
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417

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I could see the Arizona 2nd and a Middle 6 player like McCann/Vatrano.

Look again...

Pacioretty isn't worth Borgstrom or Hepo straight up???

But he's worth a mid 2nd round pick and Jared McCann OR and a guy who will most likely be on waivers after training camp in Vatrano.

One of the NHL's most consistent and productive goal scoring wingers the last 5-6yrs isn't good enough to pry away unproven (albeit it, very talented) prospects...yet bottom 6 players (McCann) and waiver fodder (Vatrano) are?

Pffftttt
 
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