Confirmed with Link: Trade: Peter Budaj & Patrick Holland for Eric Tangradi (mod warning post #863)

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Sweech

Oh When the Spurs
Jun 30, 2011
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Also, we should look at why Montreal would be motivated to make this move.

They were able to shed salary AND improve their farm team's scoring.

They could have sent Budaj down to the AHL as insurance in case Price was hurt or Tokarski didn't work out, but they opted for the plan that saves money and improves the AHL franchise.

Smart move for them.
 

CaptainChef

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
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Also, we should look at why Montreal would be motivated to make this move.

They were able to shed salary AND improve their farm team's scoring.

They could have sent Budaj down to the AHL as insurance in case Price was hurt or Tokarski didn't work out, but they opted for the plan that saves money and improves the AHL franchise.

Smart move for them.

Whatever, but you won't find too many people to agree with you saying that the jets lost in this deal. Montreal made this deal because they wanted to get rid of their third string goalie and salary in one swoop. But saying they won much by swapping Holland for Tanger, nah.

And saying we lost because we need scoring rather than golatending in the AHL isn't very strong either. Tanger was not going to give us scoring -- thats been fairly well determined. He might give you Corsi, but in Tanger's case very little else (yea I know scoring and Corsi usually go together, but not here).

As for Taylor being fine in the A vs Budaj - yes, but not a big deal. Should Pavs or Hutch get hurt or Hutch just can't get it together, we'll all be mighty happy to have an experienced goalie to come up & replace them. Budaj is not going to set no save records, but he was good for Montreal and he'll be fine here.
 

EpicGingy

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Jul 30, 2012
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Tangradi has been a consistent AHL scorer so yeah, this may have costed the AHL team some offense.

It can probably be mostly replaced by Holland, anyways. According to Habs fans he wasn't used well in Hamilton, but I can't comment on how accurate that is.
 

tucker22*

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Aug 8, 2012
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The value that Budaj can provide mentoring Helly in the minors and having him as an insurance policy encase of an injury to Pavs or Hutch is much greater than any value Tangradi would to the Ice Caps + $300k
 

Sweech

Oh When the Spurs
Jun 30, 2011
11,086
466
Hamilton, Ontario
Whatever, but you won't find too many people to agree with you saying that the jets lost in this deal. Montreal made this deal because they wanted to get rid of their third string goalie and salary in one swoop. But saying they won much by swapping Holland for Tanger, nah.

And saying we lost because we need scoring rather than golatending in the AHL isn't very strong either. Tanger was not going to give us scoring -- thats been fairly well determined. He might give you Corsi, but in Tanger's case very little else (yea I know scoring and Corsi usually go together, but not here).

As for Taylor being fine in the A vs Budaj - yes, but not a big deal. Should Pavs or Hutch get hurt or Hutch just can't get it together, we'll all be mighty happy to have an experienced goalie to come up & replace them. Budaj is not going to set no save records, but he was good for Montreal and he'll be fine here.

Whether you want to say the Jets lost or whatever is up to you. They certainly didn't win. They acquired the same level of goaltending for the AHL that they already had. They downgraded the level of scoring on their AHL team which was already at a poor level and in the end they actually end up paying more money than they originally were. How did we come out as winners here?

Or you know, you could look at the facts.

Tangradi puts up close to a point per game in the AHL. Patrick Holland has never put up even half a point per game in the AHL.

Tangradi is a much, much, much, much more proven AHL scorer than Holland has been and possibly ever will be to this point.

Budaj is no better than guys we can get off the street like Bryzgalov. If Pavelec and Hutchinson go down we'll be just as screwed as if they didn't because, frankly, Pavelec sucks ass and we're screwed if he's our starter anyway. Budaj's "experience" won't help alleviate the fact that he's just not a good NHL goalie and never has been. If he's playing in net for us we don't have a very good chance of winning.

I know people sometimes don't like stats but come on. Budaj has almost never put up good stats and Tangradi has scored a lot in the AHL and Holland has never ever scored a lot in the AHL. I have no idea where you're drawing your opinions from.
 
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Tonyuno

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Jul 12, 2014
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Because I have been busy ( in great weather) I came to this thread late, as a Jets fan I read ALL the post and when I got to the end it was a big nothing , oh please let the season begin.
 

CaptainChef

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Whether you want to say the Jets lost or whatever is up to you. They certainly didn't win. They acquired the same level of goaltending for the AHL that they already had. They downgraded the level of scoring on their AHL team which was already at a poor level and in the end they actually end up paying more money than they originally were. How did we come out as winners here?

Or you know, you could look at the facts.

Tangradi puts up close to a point per game in the AHL. Patrick Holland has never put up even half a point per game in the AHL.

Tangradi is a much, much, much, much more proven AHL scorer than Holland has been and possibly ever will be to this point.

Budaj is no better than guys we can get off the street like Bryzgalov. If Pavelec and Hutchinson go down we'll be just as screwed as if they didn't because, frankly, Pavelec sucks ass and we're screwed if he's our starter anyway. Budaj's "experience" won't help alleviate the fact that he's just not a good NHL goalie and never has been. If he's playing in net for us we don't have a very good chance of winning.

I know people sometimes don't like stats but come on. Budaj has almost never put up good stats and Tangradi has scored a lot in the AHL and Holland has never ever scored a lot in the AHL. I have no idea where you're drawing your opinions from.

Suit yourself, continue to be upset about this trade if you wish, but I'm not going to fret over the long-term consequences any more now that Budaj has been sent down. Its a wash at worse, but it could work out very nicely for us. Sure we're short on offensive talent in the AHL right now but whether we have Tanger there or not isn't going to bother me none.
 

KingBogo

Admitted Homer
Nov 29, 2011
31,784
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3 questions. 1) Has there has ever been this many posts on basically a 3 player AHL trade? 2) Why is the organization more willing to spend money to upgrade their goaltending on the Rock over the big club? 3) What do the Habs owe us down the line?
 

Sweech

Oh When the Spurs
Jun 30, 2011
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466
Hamilton, Ontario
Suit yourself, continue to be upset about this trade if you wish, but I'm not going to fret over the long-term consequences any more now that Budaj has been sent down. Its a wash at worse, but it could work out very nicely for us. Sure we're short on offensive talent in the AHL right now but whether we have Tanger there or not isn't going to bother me none.

It's not a "wash at worse".

We just made a trade that has us acquiring salary and making our AHL team worse. PERIOD.

If you don't care about our AHL team that's fine, don't worry about it. If you care about it then we just did something very dumb.

There is absolutely no way to explain it otherwise.
 

FBS

Registered User
Sep 6, 2011
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14
It's not a "wash at worse".

We just made a trade that has us acquiring salary and making our AHL team worse. PERIOD.

If you don't care about our AHL team that's fine, don't worry about it. If you care about it then we just did something very dumb.

There is absolutely no way to explain it otherwise.

Was Eric Tangradi really going to make or break the Ice Caps?
 

Sweech

Oh When the Spurs
Jun 30, 2011
11,086
466
Hamilton, Ontario
Was Eric Tangradi really going to make or break the Ice Caps?

No. He would just make them better.

That's like saying, "Would trading Andrew Ladd for Jamie McGinn and Cam Ward make or break the Winnipeg Jets?" No it wouldn't, but it would definitely make us worse.
 
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Evil Little

Registered User
Jan 22, 2014
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Also, since this Tangradi contract is now gone, can we retire the narrative that just because Cheveldayoff signed a contract then it's precious to him, or he has too much pride to dump it, that there's an institutional issue with decision-making, et c.?

I'll try and address some of these things piece by piece.

1) I think the roster player for roster player isn't important, but there's no doubting we have one of the least active GMs in the league. Holland is renowned for not making roster moves, but that probably has something to do with the fact he is running a perennial playoff team. Jim Nil may eventually start doing the same after a flurry of activity to improve his team, he may begin to sit back and let the team improve over time. The difference is this team has no success to build on. Sitting on our hands sounds like a recipe for disaster and even the GMs known for sitting on their hands like Holland make player for player trades.
I fully realize that there has been a below-average amount of activity in the Jets' front office, but I think the organization is slowly improving*, thus I don't see it as a failure.

So the fact that people are picking nits over whether this counts as a trade including one current NHL roster player on each side as though that is any sort of measure of success or failure--and not merely anecdotal cherry-picking by those who want to support their historical-levels-of-inactivity "argument"--is, uh, comical.

2) I don't know how much faith Chevy had in Taylor either, but the proof is in the pudding and the proof is that Danny Taylor is a good AHL goalie. Period. His entire career shows this.
I don't really know Taylor at all, but I'll take your word that it's a lateral move. On to of the ability to play goal in the AHL, there have been suggestions coming from the Canadiens' fans on the main board that Budaj is an above average mentor who can be credited with some small portion of Price's success. I don't know how much I believe it, but it certainly could be a thing.

In any case, you certainly make a good, well-supported point, but I think this deal is minor enough for me not to worry about it. Do they want Budaj to be Mr. Miyagi to the big guy? Were they trying to 'make an example' of Tangradi, as I saw it phrased somewhere in these pages? Did they just want a more hilarious AHL team, goal-scoring-be-damned? Do they actually really like Holland? I think the consequences are so minimal that I'm not going to fret over it.

Then again, maybe I'm just having trouble associating "Eric Tangradi" and "goal-scoring" to begin with...

3) You can't say Chevy wanted to get rid of Tangradi's salary when we just made a deal to acquire much more salary than we gave away. That doesn't make sense. So far Chevy's career has shown he can't judge goalies very well. Although it seems those he hired as junior scouts can.
The Jets aren't a cap team and aren't at their internal budget, so they'd be comparing relative value, not dollars. It's possible that the Jets feel like they get more than twice as much out of Budaj for for $1.4m than Tangradi for $700k and I would still consider that dumping Tangradi and his salary.

There's also a chance that Budaj gets claimed, in which case they're off the hook for Tangradi's one-way deal cleanly (I have to imagine that they're at least okay with it going either way, or they'd have got Montreal to waive him first).

4) Kovalchuk officially "retired" from the NHL making them able to ditch his contract completely. The new CBA has addressed this though and teams now have to watch out for their players who retire before their long term contract is up or else they'll be hit with a very sizeable cap penalty.
I thought those penalties were only for contracts signed at--or was it extending to?--35 years old or later. Did they expand that rule to include everyone in the 2013 CBA?


*(Possible yet realistic) 2015/16 Jets Depth Chart:

LW|C|RW|LD|RD|G
Ladd|Little|Frolik|Enstrom|Trouba|Pavelec
Kane|Scheifele|Wheeler|Morrissey|Bogosian|Hutchinson
Petan|Perreault|Byfuglien|Stuart|Postma|Hellebuyck
Lowry|Burmistrov|Thorburn|Clitsome|Kitchton|Olkinuora
Klingberg|O'Dell|Lipon|Ellerby||
|||||
Lodge|Copp|Kosmachuck|Kostalek|Glover|Comrie [AHL eligible '16/'17]
Kraskovsky|Olsen|De Leo|Poolman|Karlstrom|

Not all may think that's a better NHL roster than 2011/12--I do--but I don't think anyone can convince me that there are fewer movable pieces of value in that depth chart than any roster between 2011 and today. I'm sure the trade fetishists will get their day.
 
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Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
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I seriously doubt Olkinuora is re-signed. Ellerby and Klingberg will probably move on as well and even O'Dell could become a UFA if he doesn't get enough games on the roster this year.
 

NBjet

Registered User
May 24, 2014
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Whether you want to say the Jets lost or whatever is up to you. They certainly didn't win. They acquired the same level of goaltending for the AHL that they already had. They downgraded the level of scoring on their AHL team which was already at a poor level and in the end they actually end up paying more money than they originally were. How did we come out as winners here?

Or you know, you could look at the facts.

Tangradi puts up close to a point per game in the AHL. Patrick Holland has never put up even half a point per game in the AHL.

Tangradi is a much, much, much, much more proven AHL scorer than Holland has been and possibly ever will be to this point.

Budaj is no better than guys we can get off the street like Bryzgalov. If Pavelec and Hutchinson go down we'll be just as screwed as if they didn't because, frankly, Pavelec sucks ass and we're screwed if he's our starter anyway. Budaj's "experience" won't help alleviate the fact that he's just not a good NHL goalie and never has been. If he's playing in net for us we don't have a very good chance of winning.

I know people sometimes don't like stats but come on. Budaj has almost never put up good stats and Tangradi has scored a lot in the AHL and Holland has never ever scored a lot in the AHL. I have no idea where you're drawing your opinions from.

Yes, I know losing Tangrati is a great loss, but if I told you that Patrick Holland had more assists in the WHL in his 3rd year than Nic Petan did in his (last year), would that surprise you? Holland is only 22 and played for the Hamilton Bulldogs in the AHL... they happen to suck hard. I think Holland will do just fine on the Rock. Not only was this trade overall not horrible, it was genius... J'sayin'.
 

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
37,630
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Also, we should look at why Montreal would be motivated to make this move.

They were able to shed salary AND improve their farm team's scoring.

They could have sent Budaj down to the AHL as insurance in case Price was hurt or Tokarski didn't work out, but they opted for the plan that saves money and improves the AHL franchise.

Smart move for them.

It was a pure salary dump for MTL. They could care less about Tangradi. The jets made them take him and his 1 way salary to execute the deal.
 

Romang67

BitterSwede
Jan 2, 2011
29,837
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Yes, I know losing Tangrati is a great loss, but if I told you that Patrick Holland had more assists in the WHL in his 3rd year than Nic Petan did in his (last year), would that surprise you? Holland is only 22 and played for the Hamilton Bulldogs in the AHL... they happen to suck hard. I think Holland will do just fine on the Rock. Not only was this trade overall not horrible, it was genius... J'sayin'.

Well, seeing as Holland was as old as Petan is now going into his 3rd season, and was the player with the 3rd most points on his team (7 points behind #2 and 25 points after #1), it doesn't really say much. Especially considering how his assists would be affected if he regularly played with those two players.

Make no mistake, Holland's 3rd season was a fair bit worse than Petan's 3rd season in the WHL.

I'm not saying he can't be good, just that you probably shouldn't compare his junior numbers to a vastly superior player.
 

Romang67

BitterSwede
Jan 2, 2011
29,837
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Evanston, IL
Just have to add this after my latest post. Hockey sites have really come a long way. It took me like a minute to look up Patrick Holland's stats with age, and then look up how he did compared to his teammates that season, and compare it to Petan.
 
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