Trade Deadline- What to Do??

[Hawkaholic]

Trade Kempny, Rutta, and Bouma for anything you can get, if anybody wants them.

Bring back Hayden, Forsling, and sign Sikura.

 

[crazyhawk]

Trade Kempny, Rutta, and Bouma for anything you can get, if anybody wants them.

Bring back Hayden, Forsling, and sign Sikura.

How is Hayden doing in Rockford? Anybody keeping tabs?

 

[migi]

How is Hayden doing in Rockford? Anybody keeping tabs?

8 points in 9 games so at least he is gaining confidence in there. Dont know how he is playing behind stats but I think for him it's great that he is showing his offensive skills there.

He may get to Blackhawks the Hinostroza route and produce when he is ready but I like the kid.

 

[Pez68]

Hard PASS on OEL. I think he's one of the most overrated d-men in the NHL. He will be looking for a retirement contract after next season, and makes $5.5M right now. No way Hawks can afford him after next season. He's not worth Forsling alone for that one season. Let alone Forsling, a 1st, a 2nd, Hartman, and Hossa's contract....

That's pure f***ing madness. Thank God you aren't the Hawks' GM.

 

[migi]

Hard PASS on OEL. I think he's one of the most overrated d-men in the NHL. He will be looking for a retirement contract after next season, and makes $5.5M right now. No way Hawks can afford him after next season. He's not worth Forsling alone for that one season. Let alone Forsling, a 1st, a 2nd, Hartman, and Hossa's contract....

That's pure ****ing madness. Thank God you aren't the Hawks' GM.

I will remember this post when OEL is out of Arizona.

And you clearly havent check out what is happening cap wise around the league and with the Blackhawks.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I'm not sure OEL makes since for the Hawks given the contract and potential cost to acquire him, but I think he will flourish once he gets out of the desert.

 

[Pez68]

I'm not sure OEL makes since for the Hawks given the contract and potential cost to acquire him, but I think he will flourish once he gets out of the desert.

He will be better outside of Arizona, where he can play behind a true #1 defenseman. Then again, he will be 28 to start his next contract.... He will only be getting worse from here on out. Someone is going to really, really regret whatever they give OEL in a few years. I'd prefer that wasn't the Hawks.

 

[migi]

I'm not sure OEL makes since for the Hawks given the contract and potential cost to acquire him, but I think he will flourish once he gets out of the desert.

If Hossa is out we have ~9 mil cap space next summer. Trade Anisimov to make more cap if OEL is coming. When OEL needs new contract (7x8mil), tell Schmaltz that re-sign for one year deal and after Seabrook has been compliance bought out because of lock-out, give him long-term contract.

Cap is rising, you need to use it. Obviously if cap goes down when next lock-out happens, it's not that simple. I think after last lock-outs cap went down?

I'm just in fantasy land with that OEL thing but if this guy is saying that OEL isnt good, he hasnt watched him at all.

Would love to know what he thought about Duclair. Cant be good player because Arizona?

 

[ColdSteel2]

This team does need a 1st pairing D pronto. The only way I can see around that is trying to form 3 2nd pairings with Seabrook sitting out.

 

[Pez68]

If Hossa is out we have ~9 mil cap space next summer. Trade Anisimov to make more cap if OEL is coming. When OEL needs new contract (7x8mil), tell Schmaltz that re-sign for one year deal and after Seabrook has been compliance bought out because of lock-out, give him long-term contract.

Cap is rising, you need to use it. Obviously if cap goes down when next lock-out happens, it's not that simple. I think after last lock-outs cap went down?

I'm just in fantasy land with that OEL thing but if this guy is saying that OEL isnt good, he hasnt watched him at all.

Would love to know what he thought about Duclair. Cant be good player because Arizona?

The point isn't whether OEL is good or not. The point is, he's going to be declining throughout his next contract, and he's going to get overpaid massively. He will not be worth what it costs to acquire him, OR the contract you have to give him to keep him past next season. He's an offensive d-man. Hawks have plenty of those already. I do not see him as a defenseman that can handle top competition. Which is what the Hawks need more than anything.

 

[migi]

The point isn't whether OEL is good or not. The point is, he's going to be declining throughout his next contract, and he's going to get overpaid massively. He will not be worth what it costs to acquire him, OR the contract you have to give him to keep him past next season. He's an offensive d-man. Hawks have plenty of those already. I do not see him as a defenseman that can handle top competition. Which is what the Hawks need more than anything.

There aint Dmen available who could handle top competition. Zero. Nada. Yeah Doughty obviously but no.

Massively? 28 to 35 years old also known as Dmen prime as 8 mil per year? No.

If you are betting everything on Forsling to take step and two or even three to be as good as OEL in next two or three seasons, it is pretty much the biggest gamble ever. Keith, Murphy, whoever comes down the pipeline can handle tougher competition and OEL can too if he plays in right system.

And we actually dont have any offensive Dman here. Well yeah Oesterle, but are you comparing him to OEL? Or Jokiharju or Mitchell?

We need to make the team competitive around Keith, Toews, Saad, Kane and Schmaltz. We have Duclair, Sikura, Vinnie, Hayden, Murphy, DeBrincat around them. Add OEL if its possible who is a lot better than Forsling and likely always will be. Hartman is tweener for this team and the 2018 first round pick is always available for 1st pairing Dman.

OEL - Murphy
Keith - Rutta
Oesterle - Seabrook

Going next season that looks better than having Forsling there.

I must repeat myself: I dont see Forsling as good as most here. For me he is top-4 Dman in future but not first pairing guy. Anything can happen but be realistic and think about this situation here.

Sorry my bad English.

 

[Pez68]

Yeah, no.

28-35 is not prime for anyone. OEL's best seasons are behind him. He has looked like crap the last two seasons. He only puts up points on the PP. He is a disaster defensively. He is team worst -36 this year, and was team worst -25 last year. I don't put much stock in +- numbers, but when you are consistently the worst +- on your team, you are not a guy that should be seeing top competition. Period.

I would take Keith all day every day over OEL as a shutdown defender.

Rutta probably won't even be on this team next season, has proven nothing at the NHL level, and you have him paired with Keith on the "2nd" pairing?

That defense you listed is awful. And then you subtract a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, Hartman, and Forsling? And have to try and sign Schmaltz, Duclair, DeBrincat, Gustafsson, Kampf, Hinostroza, Forsberg with whatever you have leftover after overpaying OEL?

lmao

Of course Forsling isn't as good as OEL. But who cares? He's cheap, young, and cost controlled. He has a high ceiling. Hawks are building for the future. Committing huge money to OEL handicaps that.

Depending on where the Hawks finish this season....the 1st rounder alone would probably be an overpayment for OEL.

 

[migi]

Well agree to disagree then. Lmao looks like a fun word for this Finnish person. But I'm happy to know my posts make you laugh so let's leave it to here and never continue.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

I have said it many times before and will say it again, this team has too many flaws and is too far away from contention to give up ANY young assets to improve for this season. You spend the rest of this season giving young players developmental time, after the season send Q upstairs or let him change urinal cakes in the UC toilets next season, and gear up this offseason for what hopes to be a higher salary cap. If anything you find suckers to sell any vets who can traded for younger assets.

Even in a great road win last night we needed a superhuman effort from our goalie. This current team is not worth trying to improve for this seaosn.

 

[AmericanDream]

Many defensemen start coming into their own around 24 or 25 (many are slowly brought up and do not hit the NHL until 22 or 23), so I would agree that and slightly change it to 28-32 are the prime years for many defensemen.. we just have been spoiled by a number of young guys like Hanifin, Werenski, etc that have made the jump right away.

You can make many cases either way, but I have seen enough examples over the past few decades of many of the better defensemen really hitting their stride in those years.

Guys that I follow closely like Shattenkirk, Fowler, Carlson, McDonagh, Suter, Leddy, Yandle, Erik Johnson, Petry, etc are all close to that 28-32 range, and all I would consider in the prime of their careers...

As for OEL, I would absolutely love him here, what he is doing in Arizona isn't totally indicative of who he is...but I wouldn't pay a high price for him either, much rather go after Mike Green if we were to get a power play dman.

 

[bwana63]

Yeah, no.

28-35 is not prime for anyone. OEL's best seasons are behind him. He has looked like crap the last two seasons. He only puts up points on the PP. He is a disaster defensively. He is team worst -36 this year, and was team worst -25 last year. I don't put much stock in +- numbers, but when you are consistently the worst +- on your team, you are not a guy that should be seeing top competition. Period.

I would take Keith all day every day over OEL as a shutdown defender.

Rutta probably won't even be on this team next season, has proven nothing at the NHL level, and you have him paired with Keith on the "2nd" pairing?

That defense you listed is awful. And then you subtract a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, Hartman, and Forsling? And have to try and sign Schmaltz, Duclair, DeBrincat, Gustafsson, Kampf, Hinostroza, Forsberg with whatever you have leftover after overpaying OEL?

lmao

Of course Forsling isn't as good as OEL. But who cares? He's cheap, young, and cost controlled. He has a high ceiling. Hawks are building for the future. Committing huge money to OEL handicaps that.

Depending on where the Hawks finish this season....the 1st rounder alone would probably be an overpayment for OEL.

Pretty convincing rebuttal. What other teams would value Hossa's contract? Bundle it with AA (and possibly Hartman) and see what's available?

And, FWIW, I'm in stand pat mode (beyond Bouma, Kempny (sigh) and possibly Wingels). Can't hurt to kick the tires though.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Pretty convincing rebuttal. What other teams would value Hossa's contract? Bundle it with AA (and possibly Hartman) and see what's available?

And, FWIW, I'm in stand pat mode (beyond Bouma, Kempny (sigh) and possibly Wingels). Can't hurt to kick the tires though.

I can’t see how Hossa isn’t AZ bound soon. The team is barely scraping by financially and the cap is going up. They may have no other choice but to offer a good asset for that contract, as ridiculous as it sounds.

 

[Blue Liner]

The prime years for NHL defensemen are beginning to trend younger. Same can be said for forwards, for that matter. When looking at overall production and data, prime years for skaters is starting to skew to younger 20's-upper 20's with 30 becoming kind of the over-under point where "wrong side of 30" is becoming all the more true. That's not to remotely say there aren't very good players in their 30's but the highest output of production in the majority of players' careers is taking place up to the late 20's, not the late 20's as a starting point. There are exceptions to every rule but the discussion isn't about those.

As far as moving young assets, I am pretty much dead set against the idea unless there's just some can't-say-no deal out there to be had and I have a hard time imaging that being a very practical possibility. Then again with many NHL GMs, never say never, right?

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

The prime years for NHL defensemen are beginning to trend younger. Same can be said for forwards, for that matter. When looking at overall production and data, prime years for skaters is starting to skew to younger 20's-upper 20's with 30 becoming kind of the over-under point where "wrong side of 30" is becoming all the more true. That's not to remotely say there aren't very good players in their 30's but the highest output of production in the majority of players' careers is taking place up to the late 20's, not the late 20's as a starting point. There are exceptions to every rule but the discussion isn't about those.

As far as moving young assets, I am pretty much dead set against the idea unless there's just some can't-say-no deal out there to be had and I have a hard time imaging that being a very practical possibility. Then again with many NHL GMs, never say never, right?

Statistically speaking I read something awhile back that forwards prime years tend to be 22-26.

 

[Blue Liner]

Statistically speaking I read something awhile back that forwards prime years tend to be 22-26.

Yeah, there is data and work that's been done to support this on players over the past decade or decade and a half.

 

[Pez68]

The Hawks right now are still well within reach of a top 10 pick in the 2018 draft....(Carolina is 9, one point behind the Hawks) Any proposal that includes this year's 1st round draft pick is ridiculous. The Hawks will get a very, very good player with their draft pick this season. Might even get an NHL ready one. Especially if they end up in the top 10.

Hawks at #20 got Schmaltz. At #18 got Teravainen. You keep this year's pick no matter what.

 

[ThatSaid]

I think OEL would be a great fit here, and if our season was trucking along with a few more wins, I might have considered a pretty big move to get him. As it stands now, he's only signed for this year and next, and this year would be completely wasted. You're basically risking important assets to acquire a guy who will be a UFA next year, and surely looking to cash in. Not a situation that gives us a lot of flexibility.

Frankly, I think other than some obvious moves, like moving Kempny for a backup who is signed through next year, or some futures, I think we need to stand pat. Certainly don't even think about trading our 1st this year. Even if we finish strong and it isn't a top-5 pick, there are some great players with immense upside all throughout the middle of this draft, and that's the player we're going to need when our core gets older.

 

[AmericanDream]

The prime years for NHL defensemen are beginning to trend younger. Same can be said for forwards, for that matter. When looking at overall production and data, prime years for skaters is starting to skew to younger 20's-upper 20's with 30 becoming kind of the over-under point where "wrong side of 30" is becoming all the more true. That's not to remotely say there aren't very good players in their 30's but the highest output of production in the majority of players' careers is taking place up to the late 20's, not the late 20's as a starting point. There are exceptions to every rule but the discussion isn't about those.

As far as moving young assets, I am pretty much dead set against the idea unless there's just some can't-say-no deal out there to be had and I have a hard time imaging that being a very practical possibility. Then again with many NHL GMs, never say never, right?

definitely not a one-size fits all theory anymore.

I can list 10 names who are in their prime right now that are 28-32, and then list 10 more names who are swinging downward in their career at that same age range of 28-32.

And for me it isn't just about stats, you just see a growth and maturity in many defensemen who are simply better overall at getting pucks out of their zones, positioning, outlet passes, etc...they have learned the game over the years and panic less now than they did 5 years ago.

But these damn stud kids that keep jumping into the NHL at 18-20 are really starting to change the theory as some of them look like 10 year vets! crazy.

I think my whole point is that OEL isn't going to fall off the cliff in the next 2-3 years, he still will be very valuable of a player as his age range is not over-the-hill by any means. Go after him if you can, but don't unload the farm on him either.

 

[Blue Liner]

The Hawks right now are still well within reach of a top 10 pick in the 2018 draft....(Carolina is 9, one point behind the Hawks) Any proposal that includes this year's 1st round draft pick is ridiculous. The Hawks will get a very, very good player with their draft pick this season. Might even get an NHL ready one. Especially if they end up in the top 10.

Agree wholeheartedly. This team needs this 1st Rounder more than it has in a very, very long time. And as you said, if they're anywhere in that top 10 it's not a stretch to get an NHL ready player or damn close.

I would absolutely pay a large sum of money to watch the Hawks win the lottery with like a 1% chance or whatever it is if they're at the "higher" end of the lottery standings, for no other reason than to see HF Boards and social media implode about it. Total meltdown. It would be glorious.

 

[Pez68]

definitely not a one-size fits all theory anymore.

I can list 10 names who are in their prime right now that are 28-32, and then list 10 more names who are swinging downward in their career at that same age range of 28-32.

And for me it isn't just about stats, you just see a growth and maturity in many defensemen who are simply better overall at getting pucks out of their zones, positioning, outlet passes, etc...they have learned the game over the years and panic less now than they did 5 years ago.

But these damn stud kids that keep jumping into the NHL at 18-20 are really starting to change the theory as some of them look like 10 year vets! crazy.

I think my whole point is that OEL isn't going to fall off the cliff in the next 2-3 years, he still will be very valuable of a player as his age range is not over-the-hill by any means. Go after him if you can, but don't unload the farm on him either.

A testament to the quality of coaches in minor hockey, really.... Draft picks are ready sooner and sooner every season, it seems. Playing for the right teams with the right coaches is why.