Proposal: Toronto - Nashville

[kylbaz]

Leafs fans in trade proposals:

 

[Armourboy]

Poile stated that there are three untouchables- Ellis, Josi & Rinne. Apparently everyone else is on the table (obviously some more than others.) As far as Duchene and johansen I think they’re stuck. No one is taking on those deals.

Actually we don't have a quote of Poile actually saying that, it's simply something someone has said he said. In a later interview he also laughed at the statement and then stated he had zero intention of trading Forsberg.

If I had a wild guess someone probably overheard a conversation where he was talking about who he wasn't going to trade, Josi has a NMC so duh, Rinne and Poile had already discussed he didn't want to chase a cup, and I think Ellis has a hand shake agreement with Poile regarding being protected for the expansion draft. They then twisted it to be what they wanted it to be to stir up clicks.

 

[Leaf Fans]

So you are saying unless they agree to take these guys the Leafs don't make the offer. So you yourself admit they are negative value.

No, I am saying the Leafs havent made the offer ( a Leaf fan on the board anyway) so it is not entirely up to Nashville to accept; moteover, in my opinion it is to much to pay for that return. I also dont admit that they are negative because I dont belive that they are.

 

[The Jones Zone]

is any player hated more by his fanbase than Kerfoot

Literally a part of every deal they propose

 

[Leaf Fans]

is any player hated more by his fanbase than Kerfoot

Literally a part of every deal they propose

It is not that he is hated. It is just a guy outside of the core that many Leaf fans woyld be willing to give up to accomedate a salary comming back. He is usualy packaged with a first and top prospect. While some Leaf fans don't like him, most do.

 

[Martin Skoula]

is any player hated more by his fanbase than Kerfoot

Literally a part of every deal they propose

No one hates him lol, he's the only middle salary forward we have. Everyone else but Hyman is either 7+ or league minimum, who else are you supposed to move to make the cap work?

 

[LeafGrief]

is any player hated more by his fanbase than Kerfoot

Literally a part of every deal they propose

I'll be the third guy to respond because I guess we need to drive the point home.

We don't hate him, he's literally the only movable salary piece. He's not a particularly beloved player, but there's nobody else that we want to move. The next most expensive forward is Nylander. The next cheapest is Hyman. Last year you'd see a mix of Johnsson, Kerfoot, and Kapanen in proposals. Now that Johnsson and Kappy are gone, Kerfoot is the only one to fill the spot on the trade boards.
Toronto Maple Leafs - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Preds fans have no consensus on what the team should do at this point. There are some that don't want to trade Ekholm (and want to extend him) so for them the asking price is astronomical. I don't know that the ask is intended to be remotely realistic. It's also probable some posters are going to be severely disappointed no matter the return.

Exactly. I would be severely disappointed if the team got a 1st, Robertson, and Liljegren for Ekholm. Because the Preds simply should not be trading Ekholm, period. It doesn't help that a late 1st in a weak draft isn't much, and Liljegren isn't any better or a different type of defenseman than several we already have in our system. Robertson is a good prospect. But just not enough for me to give up Ekholm for. Poile would be a fool to trade him. Poile may very well be a fool, however.

 

[123offtheglass]

Nic Robertson isn't happening.

Counter offer 1:

Toronto:
LHD Ekholm
W/C Granlund (@50%)
4th round pick 2021 (NSH)

Nashville:
1st round pick 2021 (TOR)
LW/RW Amirov
RHD Liljegren
C/LW Kerfoot

Counter offer 2:

Toronto:
LHD Ekholm (@48%)
W/C Granlund (@25%; retained 50% by Chicago first, then 50% of the 50% by Nashville)

Nashville:
1st round pick 2021 (TOR)
2nd round pick 2022 (TOR)
LW/RW Amirov
RHD Liljegren

Chicago:
3rd round pick 2021 (TOR) for retaining initial 50% of Granlund contract (actually retained salary =792k)

 

[123offtheglass]

Agreed, but Ekholm is also significantly more valuable than Muzzin was at the time, since we can easily re-sign Ekholm for our team below market value. We have no pressure or desire to trade Ekholm. You're coming after him under different circumstances, so the price needs to be significantly higher. Just because you stole Muzzin doesn't mean you get to do it again that easily.

Does help with your expansion draft plans. Otherwise you'd need to protect 4D and only 4F.

 

[123offtheglass]

Nic Robertson isn't happening.

Counter offer 1:

Toronto:
LHD Ekholm
W/C Granlund (@50%)
4th round pick 2021 (NSH)

Nashville:
1st round pick 2021 (TOR)
LW/RW Amirov
RHD Liljegren
C/LW Kerfoot

Counter offer 2:

Toronto:
LHD Ekholm (@48%)
W/C Granlund (@25%; retained 50% by Chicago first, then 50% of the 50% by Nashville)

Nashville:
1st round pick 2021 (TOR)
2nd round pick 2022 (TOR)
LW/RW Amirov
RHD Liljegren

Chicago:
3rd round pick 2021 (TOR) for retaining initial 50% of Granlund contract (actually retained salary =792k)

Honestly don't think they'll be after both Ekholm & Granlund from Nashville just one or the other but hopefully it's Ekholm. Would be better for them to go after Iafallo as there would be less retention involved in the trades and a better fit. They could do Dermott+ for Iafallo in a separate deal

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Does help with your expansion draft plans. Otherwise you'd need to protect 4D and only 4F.

No, we only have 2F we want to protect at this point. Maybe 3 if you count Kunin.

Of course, that's the fan consensus, however. Poile again may have other strange thoughts. But to us it's a no-brainer that we go 4F-4D. The expansion draft should have zero effect on our decisions.

 

[123offtheglass]

No, we only have 2F we want to protect at this point. Maybe 3 if you count Kunin.

Of course, that's the fan consensus, however. Poile again may have other strange thoughts. But to us it's a no-brainer that we go 4F-4D. The expansion draft should have zero effect on our decisions.

Maybe true but in dealing Ekholm you'd get futures that are expansion draft exempt while being able to protect more of your players that I'd think he'd want to if he could. Definitely not something close to pushing for an Ekholm deal but it is a benefit; Nashville could make it out of the expansion draft loosing bread crumbs if they did deal Ekholm for something worthwhile. I do expect them to get a better deal than the Muzzin trade but not significantly unless someone really pays up.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Nic Robertson isn't happening.

Counter offer 1:

Toronto:
LHD Ekholm
W/C Granlund (@50%)
4th round pick 2021 (NSH)

Nashville:
1st round pick 2021 (TOR)
LW/RW Amirov
RHD Liljegren
C/LW Kerfoot

Counter offer 2:

Toronto:
LHD Ekholm (@48%)
W/C Granlund (@25%; retained 50% by Chicago first, then 50% of the 50% by Nashville)

Nashville:
1st round pick 2021 (TOR)
2nd round pick 2022 (TOR)
LW/RW Amirov
RHD Liljegren

Chicago:
3rd round pick 2021 (TOR) for retaining initial 50% of Granlund contract (actually retained salary =792k)

The second one is a lot better than the first, since Kerfoot isn't involved. And I think we prefer Amirov to Robertson anyway. Next, find a way for us to retain less on Ekholm, and replace Liljegren with a different/better asset since we are already full up on RD. It's moving in the right direction. Maybe just waive Kerfoot or trade him to some other team for something if you think you can get positive value for him elsewhere, then use that cap space so that we retain less. I don't know who you have available to switch Liljegren to, but keep in mind we are full up on smaller PMD and smaller players in general. You guys seem to have a lot of smaller prospects. Maybe just make it the 2022 1st so we can pick our own if there isn't one who fits available in your system.

Toronto:
Ekholm (no retention - you get the space by dumping Kerfoot elsewhere)
Granlund (50% retention)

Nashville:
1st Rnd 2021 (tor)
1st Rnd 2022 (tor)
Amirov
2nd Rnd 2022 (tor)

 

[4thline]

Did I get lost and end up in a thread about 2006 era Chris Pronger?

 

[123offtheglass]

The second one is a lot better than the first, since Kerfoot isn't involved. And I think we prefer Amirov to Robertson anyway. Next, find a way for us to retain less on Ekholm, and replace Liljegren with a different/better asset since we are already full up on RD. It's moving in the right direction. Maybe just waive Kerfoot or trade him to some other team for something if you think you can get positive value for him elsewhere, then use that cap space so that we retain less. I don't know who you have available to switch Liljegren to, but keep in mind we are full up on smaller PMD and smaller players in general. You guys seem to have a lot of smaller prospects. Maybe just make it the 2022 1st so we can pick our own if there isn't one who fits available in your system.

Toronto:
Ekholm (no retention - you get the space by dumping Kerfoot elsewhere)
Granlund (50% retention)

Nashville:
1st Rnd 2021 (tor)
1st Rnd 2022 (tor)
Amirov
2nd Rnd 2022 (tor)

Wouldn't call Kerfoot a cap dump but his contract certainly hurts his value but it does help that he's owed much less than what his remaining cap hit is on his deal (76.6% or a saving of $1,980,172 over the next 2.5 years). To the right team he should be worth a late 2nd to 3rd round pick, early 4th at minimum; has to be the right team with a need for him though. That deal does look fair though but as high as I'd go for the Leafs, favorable to Nashville but if I'm Toronto I still do it as long as the 2022 pick is top 15 protected.

As the Leafs I would try and subtract the 1st round 2022 (TOR), make the 2nd round pick conditional so that if they make round 3 (win north division) it becomes a 2022 top 15 protected first, and add a 2021 2nd round pick (TOR). Essentially it's the same value as long as they make the 3rd round which is likely especially if this deal happened. If not then it's a 2nd rather than a 1st. I'd hope they could at least hold onto their 2022 1st if possible through an alternative combination of prospects (e.x. C Filip Hallander, C Roni Hirvonen) and early picks.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Leafs fans in trade proposals:

I have never made a trade proposal.

 

[CatchyTune]

They are the definition of negative value in a hockey trade.
=
Take them out and they accept the deal.

you do know why they're in the deal... right? hint: its not for value

Muzzin was on the 2nd pairing in LA at the time. GOOD ... yes, but at the time of the Muzzin compared to todays Ekholm ... Ekholm brings more.

meh, they're pretty comparable. Ekholm might be a little better but they are very similar trade assets. #2/3D, 30 years old, 1 year left on contract. Ekholm holds similar value.

 

[Nylanderthal]

is any player hated more by his fanbase than Kerfoot

Literally a part of every deal they propose

He’s literally the only medium Salary player we have to offer in a trade.... I’m quite a fan of him actually but realize if you’re bringing in money than money has to go out. Dudes still worth a 2nd and a 3rd at minimum.
As for the most hated comment, that’s just silly. I can rattle off a list of players other teams are saddled with and KNOW they are stuck with until the end of time and there’s no need to rile up other fan bases which is what I know will happen if I start identifying bad deals around the league. Heck I’m sure Nashville fans hate duchene and johanesen 10x each more than any leaf fan dislikes kerfoot

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Whatever you guys think of Kerfoot, just please accept that we don't want anything to do with him in Nashville. We need another mediocre middling smallish unproductive forward with term left like we need a hole in the head. He is basically a deal-breaker, as I see it... if you send him to us, you are paying us at least an extra 1st to take that contract.

Now, on the otherhand, if you are SO SURE he has real value to other teams, that is great for you... go ahead and trade him to those other teams, please. You will then get something back for him instead of giving us an extra 1st to take him. Right?

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Honestly I don't think the Leafs are in a position to give the asking price for Ekholm especially when he would be joining an already good and clogged LD corps. I'd rather just focus on getting a #2 LW for Tavares and Nylander. Also for the record Kerfoot is in nearly every offer for Leafs trades because he is the easiest chunk of money to move around on our roster while still having some value.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Honestly I don't think the Leafs are in a position to give the asking price for Ekholm especially when he would be joining an already good and clogged LD corps. I'd rather just focus on getting a #2 LW for Tavares and Nylander. Also for the record Kerfoot is in nearly every offer for Leafs trades because he is the easiest chunk of money to move around on our roster while still having some value.

And I think by extension... really NO TEAM should be in a position to give the asking price for Ekholm. Because we KNOW in Nashville that we can keep him for a below-market-value contract for the next 6.5 years. No team in any other city knows that. I just don't see how that gap can be meaningfully bridged.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

And I think by extension... really NO TEAM should be in a position to give the asking price for Ekholm. Because we KNOW in Nashville that we can keep him for a below-market-value contract for the next 6.5 years. No team in any other city knows that. I just don't see how that gap can be meaningfully bridged.

I think it would be absolutely stupid to keep signing guys into their mid to late 30s when we're already not good. They're going to get worse and we're just going to continue to get worse.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I think it would be absolutely stupid to keep signing guys into their mid to late 30s when we're already not good. They're going to get worse and we're just going to continue to get worse.

I don't agree with that, of course. If you have good players, keep good players. Ekholm is our best defenseman this year and wants to stay here. I mean, I'd be all over trying to trade Ellis instead, of course. Whether that's even on the table or not, I have no idea. But it shouldn't affect how we value Ekholm. He's our #2 D, and has been our best this year, and shows no signs of slowing down, so if you can lock that up, you lock it up. We're going to feel a lot more pain from the Ellis and Josi deals than we are ever going to feel from extending Ekholm IMHO.

We also have no player anywhere in our system that even remotely resembles Ekholm. We have a lot of smaller PMD type defensemen. We have some guys who might be good #4-6 guys. But there is no Ekholm anywhere on the horizon. If the rest of the team is messed up, then fix the rest of the team. Don't mess around with "What Ain't Broke", and Ekholm is one of our few players who Ain't Broke.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

And I think by extension... really NO TEAM should be in a position to give the asking price for Ekholm. Because we KNOW in Nashville that we can keep him for a below-market-value contract for the next 6.5 years. No team in any other city knows that. I just don't see how that gap can be meaningfully bridged.

Well if Ekolm gets traded then Nashville is essentially admitting to a retool or that they wouldn't have been able to resign Ekholm. He seems to me the type of guy you sign to a 4 or 5 year contract at roughly 5 million/season after this contract is up but right now he should be worth a good futures haul just not one likely to blow you away. Remember, Erik Karlsson got traded for esentially a 1st rounder and a few decent players that weren't top tier prospects or players but are easily NHL calibre. OTT got lucky in that case that the pick turned out to be the 3rd or 5th overall in that draft but I feel like the return will be closer to that then multiple 1sts or a 1st + multiple high ranking prospects.