Post-Game Talk: Toronto Maple Tanks @ The Calgary Flames - 7PM SNW ON TUESDAY 100TG

[Lunatik]

We aren't making the playoffs, who gives a **** if we lose, just play Nakladal and see what happens.


The Flames are delusional if they think they can make the playoffs still. (I didn't say tank, but playing rookies and depth players to see if they can replace a vet is more preferable at this stage in the season).

You are suggesting players that don't deserve to play for no other reason than to play them. Any young player that has outplayed a veteran has gotten that spot. We saw Setoguchi and McGrattan lose their spots last year and Raymond this year.

 

[BigRangy]

We aren't making the playoffs, who gives a **** if we lose, just play Nakladal and see what happens.


The Flames are delusional if they think they can make the playoffs still. (I didn't say tank, but playing rookies and depth players to see if they can replace a vet is more preferable at this stage in the season).

I keep thinking that the Flames are done, there's no chance etc. But when you look at the numbers since Brodie's return, the Flames have a top 8 goal differential in all situations. Teams with positive goal differentials generally make the playoffs. The underlying fancy stats don't really suggest that Calgary should be having a positive goal differential, but they're managing somehow. The first month was horrendous, but the team is definitely outpacing all of their nearest competition for the 2nd wild card spot.

Goal differential all situations since Oct 31:

CGY +10

other wild card teams

NSH -13
ARI -21
WPG -20
VAN -26
COL -1
MIN -4

2 of these 7 teams are going to make the playoffs.

My money definitely wouldn't be on Calgary to make it at this point, but they can't throw away the season quite yet.

 

[Bouma Fett*]

You are suggesting players that don't deserve to play for no other reason than to play them. Any young player that has outplayed a veteran has gotten that spot. We saw Setoguchi and McGrattan lose their spots last year and Raymond this year.

Plus for all the whining about Bollig he's only played half the games this season. Granlund also has now played almost 30 games despite not playing that well this year for the most part, I think he was playing better last year myself.

There is opportunity for younger players.

 

[Lunatik]

I keep thinking that the Flames are done, there's no chance etc. But when you look at the numbers since Brodie's return, the Flames have a top 8 goal differential in all situations. Teams with positive goal differentials generally make the playoffs. The underlying fancy stats don't really suggest that Calgary should be having a positive goal differential, but they're managing somehow. The first month was horrendous, but the team is definitely outpacing all of their nearest competition for the 2nd wild card spot.

Goal differential all situations since Oct 31:

CGY +10

other wild card teams

NSH -13
ARI -21
WPG -20
VAN -26
COL -1
MIN -4

2 of these 7 teams are going to make the playoffs.

My money definitely wouldn't be on Calgary to make it at this point, but they can't throw away the season quite yet.

Not just that but you always have to fight, you can't quit until you are officially out of it. You need to teach your team to never give up, because you never know when you will be in a position where you need that fight.

Look no further than the 2004 Boston Red Sox. Down 3 games to 0 to the Yankees, they go into the bottom of the 9th trailing 3-2. No team in the 101 year history of MLB had ever come back from a 3-0 series deficit.

Do they quit?

Nope, they put it on the line and push harder. They send out a pinch runner who ends up stealing second base, he later scores on a single. They end up not just winning that game, but coming back and completing the only 3-0 comeback in MLB's storied history.

Will our road be tough? Yes, of course. But there is no reason to pack it in and give up.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

The underlying fancy stats don't really suggest that Calgary should be having a positive goal differential, but they're managing somehow.

That's the penalty differential at play. This team might be terrible, but they're disciplined and their PK is rolling and in today's NHL special teams decide enough regular season games. Even tonight, we won the special teams battle +1, won the game +1 despite being royally outclassed by the worst team in the league.

Come playoffs though, special teams don't mean as much.

 

[RedHot]

We aren't making the playoffs, who gives a **** if we lose, just play Nakladal and see what happens.


The Flames are delusional if they think they can make the playoffs still. (I didn't say tank, but playing rookies and depth players to see if they can replace a vet is more preferable at this stage in the season).

Pretty much, wonder when people will realize that our forward group is still very very weak. Like one of the worst in the league weak.

Not selling off vets, to try to attempt the (almost) impossible, is madness, considering the Flames spot in the standings, and their flawed roster.

 

[AgeOfBennett]

Pretty much, wonder when people will realize that our forward group is still very very weak. Like one of the worst in the league weak.

Not selling off vets, to try to attempt the (almost) impossible, is madness, considering the Flames spot in the standings, and their flawed roster.

I wouldn't say we have one of the worst forward groups. NJ, Montreal, Carolina, Columbus, Toronto, and Vancouver have worst forward groups in my opinion

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I wouldn't say we have one of the worst forward groups. NJ, Montreal, Carolina, Columbus, Toronto, and Vancouver have worst forward groups in my opinion

We are easily bottom ten in the NHL though, or at the very minimum, in the discussion.


Our forward group just isn't nearly as good as it indicated last year.

 

[FLAMES666]

Our forward group just isn't nearly as good as it indicated last year.

Well you can look at the likes of Bouma, Hudler, Jooris as those guys have seen a huge drop in goal scoring. But really to expect them to repeat what they did last year would be very optimistic.

 

[Volica]

So, I was reading these posts about Nak's minute and a half of play, and was thinking; he wasn't bad, what are some of these people talking about/making up. I had to go back and rewatch Nak's first NHL game, so the first period of last night; two shifts. In total. Reading some of these posts; I saw:
- He ****ed up.
- It lead to an odd-man rush and scoring chance.

Re-watching the game I saw and this is what actually happened:
Shift 1
Joins play in offensive end.
Makes pass along boards.
Play along boards, Bennett forces a pass through two Leaf players clogging lane to Nak. Puck takes some bounces, Nak tries to push it forward, is unsuccessful. Does the Right thing in getting back into defensive position. Both Dman are back; there is a 2 on 3 on the way back, Bennett hits the puck carrier; which results in a puck lobbed at about the red line on Hiller. A shot, yes. A scoring chance and odd-man rush? Yeah... not so much.
Nak changes.

Shift 2
Nak joins the game again on the offensive side. Takes a congested shot, which is blocked. The scramble on the right boards leads to a decent scoring chance on the left side of the net. The puck is sent back into Calgary's end. Nak picks it up, and gives it to Russell. Russell from behind his own net tries to make a stretch pass to the other blueline, the puck is intercepted and the Leafs attack. Both Russell and Nak change before this, Brodie and Giordano are defending the counter.

So. It turns out that his 'gaffe' is made up, it only played to a narrative that he deserved to sit on the bench. I'm not overly surprised about something being completely made up on this board. But the fact it wasn't called before this is funny.

 

[InfinityIggy]

So, I was reading these posts about Nak's minute and a half of play, and was thinking; he wasn't bad, what are some of these people talking about/making up. I had to go back and rewatch Nak's first NHL game, so the first period of last night; two shifts. In total. Reading some of these posts; I saw:
- He ****ed up.
- It lead to an odd-man rush and scoring chance.

Re-watching the game I saw and this is what actually happened:
Shift 1
Joins play in offensive end.
Makes pass along boards.
Play along boards, Bennett forces a pass through two Leaf players clogging lane to Nak. Puck takes some bounces, Nak tries to push it forward, is unsuccessful. Does the Right thing in getting back into defensive position. Both Dman are back; there is a 2 on 3 on the way back, Bennett hits the puck carrier; which results in a puck lobbed at about the red line on Hiller. A shot, yes. A scoring chance and odd-man rush? Yeah... not so much.
Nak changes.

Shift 2
Nak joins the game again on the offensive side. Takes a congested shot, which is blocked. The scramble on the right boards leads to a decent scoring chance on the left side of the net. The puck is sent back into Calgary's end. Nak picks it up, and gives it to Russell. Russell from behind his own net tries to make a stretch pass to the other blueline, the puck is intercepted and the Leafs attack. Both Russell and Nak change before this, Brodie and Giordano are defending the counter.

So. It turns out that his 'gaffe' is made up, it only played to a narrative that he deserved to sit on the bench. I'm not overly surprised about something being completely made up on this board. But the fact it wasn't called before this is funny.

Thanks for this post. It also meshes with Hartley's comments after the game that it was a 'gut feeling' as to why he benched Nak. No reference to a mistake was made.

 

[Volica]

Well you can look at the likes of Bouma, Hudler, Jooris as those guys have seen a huge drop in goal scoring. But really to expect them to repeat what they did last year would be very optimistic.

Wideman and Hudler were the big two that had killer years last year. We brought in Dougie and Frolik to lessen the burden of what would likely be lesser seasons.

This team doesn't have good energy most nights, this team tends to play poor defensively (the forwards), we lose too many battles... It's the little things that kill us. It also hurts we don't have the puck 55%+ of the time (generously).

But being completely honest. This team is an elite piece, a remake of the bottom 6 and a goalie away from being in a really good spot.

 

[Dertell]

Well you can look at the likes of Bouma, Hudler, Jooris as those guys have seen a huge drop in goal scoring. But really to expect them to repeat what they did last year would be very optimistic.

Jooris' scoring rate is only slightly lower than last year. Just can't crack the roster regularly and when he does, gets way less special team icetime.

 

[Lunatik]

So, I was reading these posts about Nak's minute and a half of play, and was thinking; he wasn't bad, what are some of these people talking about/making up. I had to go back and rewatch Nak's first NHL game, so the first period of last night; two shifts. In total. Reading some of these posts; I saw:
- He ****ed up.
- It lead to an odd-man rush and scoring chance.

Re-watching the game I saw and this is what actually happened:
Shift 1
Joins play in offensive end.
Makes pass along boards.
Play along boards, Bennett forces a pass through two Leaf players clogging lane to Nak. Puck takes some bounces, Nak tries to push it forward, is unsuccessful. Does the Right thing in getting back into defensive position. Both Dman are back; there is a 2 on 3 on the way back, Bennett hits the puck carrier; which results in a puck lobbed at about the red line on Hiller. A shot, yes. A scoring chance and odd-man rush? Yeah... not so much.
Nak changes.

Shift 2
Nak joins the game again on the offensive side. Takes a congested shot, which is blocked. The scramble on the right boards leads to a decent scoring chance on the left side of the net. The puck is sent back into Calgary's end. Nak picks it up, and gives it to Russell. Russell from behind his own net tries to make a stretch pass to the other blueline, the puck is intercepted and the Leafs attack. Both Russell and Nak change before this, Brodie and Giordano are defending the counter.

So. It turns out that his 'gaffe' is made up, it only played to a narrative that he deserved to sit on the bench. I'm not overly surprised about something being completely made up on this board. But the fact it wasn't called before this is funny.

[mod]

And yeah I was remembering wrong, I thought it turned into a 3 on 2 that the Leafs ****ed up for some reason. I was also mistake as I mixed him and the forward up when they puck reached the neutral zone. But he did indeed make a mistake, he was caught in between going after the puck and sitting back, you cannot be indecisive like that. It was a smaller mistake than I was remembering, but a mistake none the less.

I make mistakes and I always own up to them when I am wrong, so you don't need to make claims like I have thing anti-Nakladal narrative when I have been pumping his tires all ****ing year.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

So, I was reading these posts about Nak's minute and a half of play, and was thinking; he wasn't bad, what are some of these people talking about/making up. I had to go back and rewatch Nak's first NHL game, so the first period of last night; two shifts. In total. Reading some of these posts; I saw:
- He ****ed up.
- It lead to an odd-man rush and scoring chance.

Re-watching the game I saw and this is what actually happened:
Shift 1
Joins play in offensive end.
Makes pass along boards.
Play along boards, Bennett forces a pass through two Leaf players clogging lane to Nak. Puck takes some bounces, Nak tries to push it forward, is unsuccessful. Does the Right thing in getting back into defensive position. Both Dman are back; there is a 2 on 3 on the way back, Bennett hits the puck carrier; which results in a puck lobbed at about the red line on Hiller. A shot, yes. A scoring chance and odd-man rush? Yeah... not so much.
Nak changes.

Shift 2
Nak joins the game again on the offensive side. Takes a congested shot, which is blocked. The scramble on the right boards leads to a decent scoring chance on the left side of the net. The puck is sent back into Calgary's end. Nak picks it up, and gives it to Russell. Russell from behind his own net tries to make a stretch pass to the other blueline, the puck is intercepted and the Leafs attack. Both Russell and Nak change before this, Brodie and Giordano are defending the counter.

So. It turns out that his 'gaffe' is made up, it only played to a narrative that he deserved to sit on the bench. I'm not overly surprised about something being completely made up on this board. But the fact it wasn't called before this is funny.

Regarding the "gaffe" description (yes that was me) it was used to describe a minor and accidental (and embarrassing) mistake on shift 1. Hardly made up - it happened.

His indecision on Shift 1 between playing the puck and backing off that I saw, and it was the only thing that stood out in my mind as to "why" Hartley would have stapled him to the bench.

Hardly a narrative, just looking for a possible explanation.

 

[tmurfin]

At the end of the day it sucks for Nak, but Hartley's job is to win games, especially now that we're hanging on for our lives. You won't see guys like Nak get major chances until we're mathematically eliminated.

 

[Calculon]

Hartley's job is to win and develop players for the future. That's every coaches job in today's NHL.

Just like how the role of forwards has evolved overtime to necessitate strong defensive play along with putting up points, so too has the role of coaches. If doing two things at once is too complicated for Hartley, than he won't have much of a future in the NHL, especially since he's not exactly excelling at winning games either.

 

[tmurfin]

Hartley's job is to win and develop players for the future. That's every coaches job in today's NHL.

Just like how the role of forwards has evolved overtime to necessitate strong defensive play along with putting up points, so too has the role of coaches. If doing two things at once is too complicated for Hartley, than he won't have much of a future in the NHL, especially since he's not exactly excelling at winning games either.

Wait, did we not win last night?

 

[TheHudlinator]

Wait, did we not win last night?

We did but future superstar Nak didn't get to start his amazing career on the right track.

 

[Calculon]

Wait, did we not win last night?

One night trumps the whole season?

And it was the Leafs too, a team that the Flames struggled against for the most part

 

[tmurfin]

We did but future superstar Nak didn't get to start his amazing career on the right track.

Just another reason to fire the Hartley!!!!?!!!

 

[King In The North]

Do we not trust Hartley now? He's scratched Gaudreau in his rookie year, and given Bennett 4th line minutes this season. And they're both fine.

 

[tmurfin]

Do we not trust Hartley now? He's scratched Gaudreau in his rookie year, and given Bennett 4th line minutes this season. And they're both fine.

Don't compare those bums to Nakladal.

 

[tmurfin]

One night trumps the whole season?

And it was the Leafs too, a team that the Flames struggled against for the most part

In this case it does, because it's the only game Nak has played and its why people are crying. He sat and we won. Seems to have worked out pretty good for us

 

[TheHudlinator]

Just another reason to fire the Hartley!!!!?!!!

It's like people have already forgotten how old our old rosters were. Hartley isn't perfect but Dutter was our coach the last time we made it to the second round was he not?