Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retained), 2023 3rd round pick, 2024 7th round pick for future considerations

[Tuna99]

I could see it. He’s with people he’s familiar with and is close with the goalie coaching staff in Toronto. If he can just stay healthy I think he can be better than Campbell was. His glove side is still a concern but he can still be serviceable.

Nikita Zaitsev smoked Murray and that was it for him in Ottawa.

I’m not saying he’s wasnt injured but he’s missing a fire or he didn’t bring that fire to Ottawa, never matched the intensity of Chabot, Tkachuk and Stuztle. Murray has bad juju, doesn’t seem to be a guy who wants to be in big moments

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[Tuna99]

The Tampa Bay Lightning are going to respect the crap out of this guy, and that’s what it’s all about.

 

[SanderSen]

Now comes the Leaf spin where Murray is the 2nd coming of Gump Worsley and Martin Brodeur.

Just interesting watching Dorion operate without an owner looking over his shoulder....

 

[JD1]

I kind of have mixed feelings about this. If healthy Murray is a good goalie. Better than anything Toronto has had for a while. But there's value to us in shredding that contract.

I woke up this morning thinking about that Kevin Francis article where Murray was crapping on Zaitsev. I generally don't put a lot of stock in Francis articles, but that was a crappy thing to have floating around given how tight the team seems to be. It's kind of an untenable situation where someone battling for a starter job criticizes a D to that extent

Onwards. Let's see what happens with those salary dollars

Read a few posts about the potential impact of Bowness on the events of the past few days. I don't know about that. I think the impact of having 76m in payroll to play with has had a far larger impact on what's transpired than anything else

 

[Big Muddy]

Wow...

What an offseason so far, Dorion dumps Murray for almost nothing and manages to steal Debrincat.

Kudos where it's due, Dorion is killing it.

Ya, Dorion is definitely on track for one of the best offseason ever for a Senator GM.

Next up is Zaitsev. I'd move a chunk of his minutes around to Brannstrom, Thompson and JBD and see who emerges. If you shelter Zaitsev more, I think he could be moved at the deadline this year worse case and we wouldn't have to give up much.

 

[atmx093]

It feels like the passing of the prior owner unleashed Pierre's full GM powers. Maybe he truly is a genius.

 

[Arogie]

What happens to Ottawa's 25% retained if Murray goes on LTIR in Toronto?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

No one feels just a little worried that Murray could find his redemption arc, finally have all the changes to his game come together and lead the leafs to a solid season? Seems at least possible. Hope not.

I remember drafting a #1C, #1D, and signing a #1G and thinking what a great day. But like Karlsson getting aggressive and getting burned, what made him great was how he could recover. And Dorion looks to have pulled off a decent recovery here, like with Dadonov, if Murray continues to be like he was here.

Well, he is only 28. That's the beginning of the prime years of a netminder. And he did play well to end the season.

But he is soooo frail. Even if they make the playoffs and he plays well, opponents know all they have to do is crash the crease once, and he's out for weeks. If the laffs what to make areal run in the playoffs, they need a legit starter with durability.

 

[Micklebot]

What happens to Ottawa's 25% retained if Murray goes on LTIR in Toronto?

Probably nothing? I mean, if insurance starts covering his salary (would require 30 consecutive games missed) we might see some relief but there's a decent chance Toronto opts not to cover him since they have 7 guys with higher salaries.

We won't need cap relief so LTIR on it's own is meaningless, and I'm relatively sure you can't LTIR your cap retention anyways.

 

[Snowwy]

Just interesting watching Dorion operate without an owner looking over his shoulder....

This is the biggest thing here. Funny though how some think that what has happened lately is because of an assistant GM that started a few weeks ago.

 

[Tuna99]

This is the biggest thing here. Funny though how some think that what has happened lately is because of an assistant GM that started a few weeks ago.

There’s lost to consider here - Dorion being out on notice by Tkachuk and Chabot is huge, increased salary, new AGM , new owners, and just a need to revamp the team with the community.

Dorion still tried to trade the 7OA with salary retained 1 week ago and Murray said no - this conversation could be very different right now.

 

[GCK]

I could see it. He’s with people he’s familiar with and is close with the goalie coaching staff in Toronto. If he can just stay healthy I think he can be better than Campbell was. His glove side is still a concern but he can still be serviceable.

Campbell was pretty damn good. Dubas overthought this move.

 

[Bevans]

What happens to Ottawa's 25% retained if Murray goes on LTIR in Toronto?

Excellent question. Would love to hear Friedman or someone knowledgeable answer this.

 

[GCK]

Yeah this is actually probably a win for TO. Murray will be solid and they got two picks out of it. If he’s solid for them then they have him at a good salary too.

Meanwhile we just gave away two picks to get the terrible contract off the books after trading a 2nd and gruden for him.

Anyway, too early to say who benefits most. It depends on how he performs. But Dorion shouldn’t get any credit for wasting time cleaning up his godawful messes.

Bad take. All GMs make mistakes, getting out from under your mistakes is the secret.

 

[Micklebot]

Campbell was pretty damn good. Dubas overthought this move.

Watch us sign Campbell now...

 

[Bevans]

Dorion still tried to trade the 7OA with salary retained 1 week ago and Murray said no - this conversation could be very different right now.

Why? How?

We are all aware that it was a 3 way and Debrincat was coming one way or the other.

How would this conversation be different if, instead of sending a 3rd and a 7th to Toronto, they sent a prospect to chicago?

Maybe it was a good prospect, maybe not. But I don't see how the distinction would have been earth shattering.

 

[GCK]

Unless the Leafs make more moves. Murray is their guy. They still have to sign Sandin to a bridge deal. Probably. 3 million AAV.

Sandin will come in at 1.5 or below. I’m thinking Engvall might bite Dubas in the ass if he chooses arb.

 

[Senovision]

Seeing him in a Leafs jersey makes me Puke! The blue team. He was injured here for most of the 2 seasons he was here. I wonder how good the Leafs back up goalie is, because that guy will be getting a lot of action, unless Murray has magically healed.

 

[Micklebot]

Why? How?

We are all aware that it was a 3 way and Debrincat was coming one way or the other.

How would this conversation be different if, instead of sending a 3rd and a 7th to Toronto, they sent a prospect to chicago?

Maybe it was a good prospect, maybe not. But I don't see how the distinction would have been earth shattering.

depends on the prospect I guess

3rd and 7th

vs

one of (in approximate order of yuck): Pinto, Greig, Brannstrom, JBD/Thompson, Boucher, Sokolov, Jarventie, Kleven ect

Personally, I wouldn't trade any of those prospects for a 3rd and 7th and would be pretty darn critical of the team if we did. I think Pinto/Greig was highly unlikely to be the extra piece required, but could easily see one of the first three D.

I personally think the value of moving from 7 to 16 would be somewhere between a 1st and a 2nd based on historical trends. I'm much happier with how things played out than the hypothetical alternate universe based on my admittedly unverifiable assumptions.


Worth pointing out though that even if the effective cost of Debrincat ended up as 16th, insert prospect but lets say JBD, a 2nd and a 3rd we'd still have gotten a great deal imo.

 

[Bevans]

depends on the prospect I guess

3rd and 7th

vs

one of (in approximate order of yuck): Pinto, Greig, Brannstrom, JBD/Thompson, Boucher, Sokolov, Jarventie, Kleven ect

Personally, I wouldn't trade any of those prospects for a 3rd and 7th and would be pretty darn critical of the team if we did. I think Pinto/Greig was highly unlikely to be the extra piece required, but could easily see one of the first three D.

I personally think the value of moving from 7 to 16 would be somewhere between a 1st and a 2nd based on historical trends. I'm much happier with how things played out than the hypothetical alternate universe based on my admittedly unverifiable assumptions.

Yes this reality is better.

But for people to construe it as THIS versus 7 for 16 and no debrincat is wrong.

 

[Micklebot]

Yes this reality is better.

But for people to construe it as THIS versus 7 for 16 and no debrincat is wrong.

did anybody suggest that though? I mean, maybe when the new first broke that we acquired DeBrincat, but it came out pretty quick that we had a contingency plan to still get DeBrincat (or rather this was the contingency plan)

 

[Bevans]

did anybody suggest that though? I mean, maybe when the new first broke that we acquired DeBrincat, but it came out pretty quick that we had a contingency plan to still get DeBrincat (or rather this was the contingency plan)

Yes, the post I quoted suggested a "very different conversation " if Buffalo trade happened. And many others have done the same.

The theory that Murray gave us debrincat via veto is inaccurate.

 

[Micklebot]

Yes, the post I quoted suggested a "very different conversation " if Buffalo trade happened. And many others have done the same.

The theory that Murray gave us debrincat via veto is inaccurate.

I'm not seeing it that way, at best it's ambiguous. Perhaps he thinks acquiring DeBrincat would have required Pinto + 16 OA instead of 7 + 39 and a 2024 3rd. That's a very different conversation imo.

 

[Sweatred]

Yes, the post I quoted suggested a "very different conversation " if Buffalo trade happened. And many others have done the same.

The theory that Murray gave us debrincat via veto is inaccurate.

I can’t believe some people think this is accurate still…