Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] Marner re-signs (6 years, $10.893M AAV) Part III

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Well at least she's right about something.

Is this just some weird thing you do? Calling another poster "she" when their gender is literally listed as male?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Is this just some weird thing you do? Calling another poster "she" when their gender is literally listed as male?

Hadn’t looked. Don’t take it personally.

 

[Faltorvo]

Had to catch up on the Laine thread. You can guess whats going on there. Basically any hf thread drifts onto bashing the leafs at about page 10 or so. Oh well, guess my comment doesnt look as silly now lol

i think we should get bashed

dubass thought there was going to be a NEW MARKET for RFAs

he was the one to "set that market"

fans of others teams feared their teams would follow his terrible example

BUT they did not and the rest of the league just schooled our rookie gutless GM.

There is NO NEW RFA market, save for in Toronto.

 

[The Shrike]

The player agents are convinced there will be a huge jump in revenues in a couple of years, so they are all pushing their clients to sign short (2 or 3 year) term deals. GM's also seem to believe that to be the case since they are pushing for longer term deals. We will see in time how this all plays out, but if it goes the way the agents and GM's believe it will, Dubas did a pretty good job here, since he maintained his core roster in the short term, all while providing inflationary protection in the long term.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Good luck, Tampa, Calgary, Winnipeg, Vancouver, in 2-3 years time.

Toronto will talk to you about all this in.........6 years.

 

[seanlinden]

The player agents are convinced there will be a huge jump in revenues in a couple of years, so they are all pushing their clients to sign short (2 or 3 year) term deals. GM's also seem to believe that to be the case since they are pushing for longer term deals. We will see in time how this all plays out, but if it goes the way the agents and GM's believe it will, Dubas did a pretty good job here, since he maintained his core roster in the short term, all while providing inflationary protection in the long term.

The player agents are convinced there will be a huge jump in revenues in a couple of years, so they are all pushing their clients to sign short (2 or 3 year) term deals. GM's also seem to believe that to be the case since they are pushing for longer term deals. We will see in time how this all plays out, but if it goes the way the agents and GM's believe it will, Dubas did a pretty good job here, since he maintained his core roster in the short term, all while providing inflationary protection in the long term.

If the leafs window to win was 4-5 years from now... you'd be correct. However, it's not -- the Leafs window to win is now. In 4-5 years, Tavares will be on the wrong side of 30, Really and Andersen will need new deals as well.

Just imagine how good this team could have been over the next 2 years if they saved $4m on Mitch Marner (by locking him up to a 3 year deal similar to point) -- how good they could have been if they kept Matthew's to a deal that made any sort of sense in a 5 year context (likely $2m less), and if they saved the $750k or so on Nylander. That's an incremental 7.5m player.

 

[Dache]

Good luck, Tampa, Calgary, Winnipeg, Vancouver, in 2-3 years time.

Toronto will talk to you about all this in.........6 years.

They don’t have anyone to re sign for 6 years?

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

If the leafs window to win was 4-5 years from now... you'd be correct. However, it's not -- the Leafs window to win is now. In 4-5 years, Tavares will be on the wrong side of 30, Really and Andersen will need new deals as well.

Just imagine how good this team could have been over the next 2 years if they saved $4m on Mitch Marner (by locking him up to a 3 year deal similar to point) -- how good they could have been if they kept Matthew's to a deal that made any sort of sense in a 5 year context (likely $2m less), and if they saved the $750k or so on Nylander. That's an incremental 7.5m player.

On top of this, it looks like Sandin is gonna make the Leafs and eat up his ELC. That means in 3 years the Leafs need to sign Sandin + Reilly. So they will not be insulated from these issues down the line just cause they have Marner for 6 years.

Maybe everyone in their top 9 remains a + value contract and Dubas can make trades if he needs to, but I think among the contenders Dubas has the least flexibility with his roster, and is going to need to pull off some moves every offseason to keep his D/G/ forward depth at an acceptable level for a contender.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

i think we should get bashed

dubass thought there was going to be a NEW MARKET for RFAs

he was the one to "set that market"

fans of others teams feared their teams would follow his terrible example

BUT they did not and the rest of the league just schooled our rookie gutless GM.

There is NO NEW RFA market, save for in Toronto.

The market was set with the Draisaitl and Eichel contracts. I'm not excusing Dubas' contribution to the madness but be didn't start the trend.

And for the record, the Point and Laine contracts really aren't any better because of the term so, yeah, there kind of is a new market.

 

[Tripod]

i think we should get bashed

dubass thought there was going to be a NEW MARKET for RFAs

he was the one to "set that market"

fans of others teams feared their teams would follow his terrible example

BUT they did not and the rest of the league just schooled our rookie gutless GM.

There is NO NEW RFA market, save for in Toronto.

Thank you for your honesty.

 

[Tripod]

The market was set with the Draisaitl and Eichel contracts. I'm not excusing Dubas' contribution to the madness but be didn't start the trend.

And for the record, the Point and Laine contracts really aren't any better because of the term so, yeah, there kind of is a new market.

8 years is not the same as 5/6 years. Dubas didn't get those extra years...THAT'S the issue. If Matthews had signed that same $ on an 8 year deal, everyone would say they understood the deal.....Less than McDavid, more than Eichel...EXPZ.

 

[Faltorvo]

The market was set with the Draisaitl and Eichel contracts. I'm not excusing Dubas' contribution to the madness but be didn't start the trend.

And for the record, the Point and Laine contracts really aren't any better because of the term so, yeah, there kind of is a new market.

obviously drais/eich only set the new market in TO

i don't see anyone else follow those leads.

 

[Faltorvo]

The market was set with the Draisaitl and Eichel contracts. I'm not excusing Dubas' contribution to the madness but be didn't start the trend.

And for the record, the Point and Laine contracts really aren't any better because of the term so, yeah, there kind of is a new market.

and you really don't want to open that "term" bs argument

our "term" guys don't line up one little bit with their peers. eichel/mcdavid deals compared to mattys?

ehlers compared to nylander?

marner compared to, welll no one really.

 

[DFC]

i think we should get bashed

dubass thought there was going to be a NEW MARKET for RFAs

he was the one to "set that market"

fans of others teams feared their teams would follow his terrible example

BUT they did not and the rest of the league just schooled our rookie gutless GM.

There is NO NEW RFA market, save for in Toronto.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I think Dubas is a very smart hockey guy who's not a good negotiator. I'm not sure if HE thought he was "setting the market," or if Leafs Media sold it to Leafs fans that "the market for RFAs has changed," without realizing that it had only changed in Toronto. (They seem to realize it now.)

The interesting thing is the other GMs didn't blink. Some of the RFA deals came in pretty big, but none of them were potentially handcuffing contracts. That only happened in Toronto, and it happened twice. I think maybe the first mistake wasn't the Nylander deal, but the failure to convince Matthews that John Tavares got massive money because he's a UFA, and that there's a difference between UFA deals and RFA deals (still to this day). When that didn't happen, it did change the market, but only for the Leafs. It seems like most other GMs just shrugged and told their RFAs, "Pay no attention to the noise you're hearing from Toronto, and sign this."

We'll see where Rantanen comes in, but it's starting to seem like it'll be under 10. I understand that Leaf fans want to defend Dubas, and he might yet be a great GM. But, as of now, he doesn't negotiate well.

 

[DFC]

The market was set with the Draisaitl and Eichel contracts. I'm not excusing Dubas' contribution to the madness but be didn't start the trend.

And for the record, the Point and Laine contracts really aren't any better because of the term so, yeah, there kind of is a new market.

Bottom feeding teams don't set the market for contenders. Part of the problem is Toronto has a lot more important pieces to pay than either of those teams.

 

[Faltorvo]

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I think Dubas is a very smart hockey guy who's not a good negotiator. I'm not sure if HE thought he was "setting the market," or if Leafs Media sold it to Leafs fans that "the market for RFAs has changed," without realizing that it had only changed in Toronto. (They seem to realize it now.)

The interesting thing is the other GMs didn't blink. Some of the RFA deals came in pretty big, but none of them were potentially handcuffing contracts. That only happened in Toronto, and it happened twice. I think maybe the first mistake wasn't the Nylander deal, but the failure to convince Matthews that John Tavares got massive money because he's a UFA, and that there's a difference between UFA deals and RFA deals (still to this day). When that didn't happen, it did change the market, but only for the Leafs. It seems like most other GMs just shrugged and told their RFAs, "Pay no attention to the noise you're hearing from Toronto, and sign this."

We'll see where Rantanen comes in, but it's starting to seem like it'll be under 10. I understand that Leaf fans want to defend Dubas, and he might yet be a great GM. But, as of now, he doesn't negotiate well.

i have been a diehard leafs fan since 1972 and i can tell you it all started with the Nylander deal

Nylanders exact peer/equal was nik ehlers , both deals started the same season, exact same draft pedigree and no difference in pre production

ehlers signs for 7y at 6m and sold 3 UFAs
Nylander signs for 6y at 7m and sold 1 UFA

soon as they caved to that hold out and well overpaid, the blood was in the water and the rest of the agents knew he was a soft touch.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

The market was set with the Draisaitl and Eichel contracts. I'm not excusing Dubas' contribution to the madness but be didn't start the trend.

And for the record, the Point and Laine contracts really aren't any better because of the term so, yeah, there kind of is a new market.

Draisaitl and Eichel finished 10th and 11th in points per game, respectively, and then signed 8-year contracts. I could buy that those guys had set the market if other players were signing a ton of 8-year deals, but that isn’t what’s happening.

The Point and Laine contracts are both much better for their teams. The Leafs offer to Marner on a 3-year term was just under $9M according to James Mirtle. The fact that he took this contract instead of that offer of $2.25M more than Point on the same term is pretty telling as to how much better Point’s contract is.

 

[DFC]

i have been a diehard leafs fan since 1972 and i can tell you it all started with the Nylander deal

Nylanders exact peer/equal was nik ehlers , both deals started the same season, exact same draft pedigree and no difference in pre production

ehlers signs for 7y at 6m and sold 3 UFAs
Nylander signs for 6y at 7m and sold 1 UFA

soon as they caved to that hold out and well overpaid, the blood was in the water and the rest of the agents knew he was a soft touch.

I agree that the way the Nylander negotiation went down showed "weakness" I guess. I don't even think the money ended up all that terrible for him.

I'm just wondering if that was the catalyst for Matthews trying to get more than Tavares, or if he was going to want to be the highest paid player on the team regardless. It just seems to me that when you make the big UFA signing, the rest of your team has to know that you went out and paid big to get a big time guy. But in Toronto, it was like the sharks started licking their lips, because that was their new floor.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

This thread is hilarious. Classic HF really, full of the usual suspects.

Last year it was no way they can afford Tavares. Oops

Then it shifted to no way can they sign all 3 of Matthews, Marner and Nylander. Not only did Dubas fit them all in, he upgraded the D in the process. Oops.

Now it's, but, but, but in 3 years.....

When will HF get tired of the constant egg running down their collective faces?

I understand it's Toronto and the center of the hockey universe, but does it not get tiresome at some point?

We can, we will, we did!

 

[Faltorvo]

I agree that the way the Nylander negotiation went down showed "weakness" I guess. I don't even think the money ended up all that terrible for him.

I'm just wondering if that was the catalyst for Matthews trying to get more than Tavares, or if he was going to want to be the highest paid player on the team regardless. It just seems to me that when you make the big UFA signing, the rest of your team has to know that you went out and paid big to get a big time guy. But in Toronto, it was like the sharks started licking their lips, because that was their new floor.

you hear and read how Tbay "has a culture" and Boston "has a culture"

thats starts from with in and is born by management and the players

our new rookie GM set our culture by bending and overpaying(weak GM) Nylander and by Nylander that greed is good.

IMO our "culture" should have been set by letting him watch last season from over seas (and this is NOT 20/20 hindsight) i have had this stance the entire time.

 

[SotasicA]

We can, we will, we did!

Overpay?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

This thread is hilarious. Classic HF really, full of the usual suspects.

Last year it was no way they can afford Tavares. Oops

Then it shifted to no way can they sign all 3 of Matthews, Marner and Nylander. Not only did Dubas fit them all in, he upgraded the D in the process. Oops.

Now it's, but, but, but in 3 years.....

When will HF get tired of the constant egg running down their collective faces?

I understand it's Toronto and the center of the hockey universe, but does it not get tiresome at some point?

We can, we will, we did!

Idk prob when Toronto makes it out of the 1st round.

 

[CatchyTune]

i think we should get bashed

dubass thought there was going to be a NEW MARKET for RFAs

he was the one to "set that market"

fans of others teams feared their teams would follow his terrible example

BUT they did not and the rest of the league just schooled our rookie gutless GM.

There is NO NEW RFA market, save for in Toronto.

Almost every other rfa deal this year has been a bridge. Leafs have their guys locked up. No complaints

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Almost every other rfa deal this year has been a bridge. Leafs have their guys locked up. No complaints

Yup, Dubas has done a remarkable job since taking over for Lou. Had a lot of mess to clean up, but has now done so. Full steam ahead now.

 

[DFC]

Good luck, Tampa, Calgary, Winnipeg, Vancouver, in 2-3 years time.

Toronto will talk to you about all this in.........6 years.

Brayden Point has to make like 15m on his next deal to equal Marner's. And that will be a deal that buys UFA years. ...And he's not going to make 15m.