Waived: [TOR] G Ilya Samsonov waived by the Maple Leafs (cleared)

[Michel Beauchamp]

what? 2-2-9 in regulation is an impossible record because.

A you can't be2-2-9 in regulation because that 3rd category is reserved for OT games which means they don't end in regulation.

B that 3rd category is for OT and shootout losses because if you win it just goes into the win category.

C they don't even have 9 OT or shootout losses they have 7 yet between Samsonov, Woll, and Jones you have added on 7 more OT or shootout losses and I would like to know where these magical OT or shootout losses came from?

Because they certainly haven't happened on the ice.

In regulation means after 60 minutes.

What that so difficult to understand...?

Because you are openly telling me you didn’t have a point seeing as you supposedly don’t even disagree with what I said…yet are still here arguing with me. Acting like a bad girlfriend not here for it.

I'm not arguing with you...

I'm simply providing you with facts (some of which I corrected).

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

oooooh okay sorry man I got ya


yeah I see it now, I guess yesterday I looked at like you were saying 2.4m remained on the cap for the leafs to use. sorry my mistake

Not a biggie. You don't need to be sorry.

I could have been clearer.

 

[Prairie Habs]

You realize Boston had the Vezina winner last year and still lost?

What happened to the 2 time Vezina winner in the Finals? He was the worst Finals goalie in the last decade right?

I don't think winning a Vezina 7 years ago makes you a lifetime elite goalie. I think they had a goalie that got hot which can happen with any goalie. It's happened with Matt Murray in Pittsburgh, Binnington in St. Louis as a rookie, etc.

For example, MAF won the Vezina much more recently than Bobrovsky - and he can be had for pretty cheap as a backup goalie.

You think I'm arguing that 2 vezina goalies playing eachother in the playoffs means both teams should move on? How does a 2 time vezina winner beating a 1 time vezina winner support that argument that vezina winners aren't important?

The entire Panthers team was outplayed in the finals last year. Does barkov being outplayed in the finals mean teams shouldn't get elite 2 way centres?

The "any goalie could get hot" argument is technically true, but there's a lot of survivorship bias there. For every goalie that comes out of nowhere to carry their team there's a dozen teams that were let down by unproven goalies.

Let's take a look at the vezina winners:

2023: Linus Ullmark - 1st round
2022: Igor Shesterkin - 3rd round
2021: Marc-Andre Fleury - cup winner
2020: Connor Hellebuyck - 3rd round
2019: Andrei Vasilevskiy - cup winner
2018: Pekka Rinne - cup finals
2017: Sergei Bobrovsky - cup finals
2016: Braden Holtby - cup winner
2015: Carey Price - cup finals
2014: Tuukka Rask - cup finals
2013: Sergei Bobrovsky - cup finals
2012: Henrik Lundqvist - cup finals
2011: Tim Thomas - cup winner
2010: Ryan Miller - 3rd round
2009: Tim Thomas - cup winner
2008: Martin Brodeur - cup winner
2007: Martin Brodeur - cup winner
2006: Miikka Kiprusoff - cup finals

So, of the 18 vezina winners in the cap era all but 4 have been to cup finals. If you want to bring it to an even 20 season brodeur won the 2 before the lockout, which would bring us to 16/20 or 80%. Do 80% of the rest of the goalies have at trip to the Finals as a starter on their resume? I'm gonna guess no.

The massive problem you are overlooking is that there are 64 full time goalies in the league. There are 6 vezina winners still active in that 64. The remaining 58 have a better chance collectively of getting to the cup, but an elite goalie is much more likely to get you there than any one random bargin bin goalie.

That's why you have to go back to 2016 to find a finals where there wasn't at least 1 starter with a vezina trophy. Of the last 14 finals starters there have been 8 vezina winners and 6 non.

Your MAF point at the end is ridiculous on its face. He's 39 years old, it shouldn't be surprising he isn't expensive.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Yes goalies regularly have to deal with and it's usually to their detriment. As we are seeing. Bad defense = bad goalies. Once your goalies confidence is destroyed like it is with Samsonov, then everything goes in.

Simply replacing the goalie doesn't fix this problem. It just delays it.

862 is Samsonov fault nobody else you can't blame 862on defense

 

[leafsfan5]

862 is Samsonov fault nobody else you can't blame 862on defense

Martin Jones: 5-3-1 with a 2.37 GAA and a .926 sv%
Joseph Woll: 8-5-1 with a 2.80 GAA and a .916 sv%
Ilya Samsonov: 5-2-6 with a 3.94 GAA and a .862 sv%

Crazy how the leafs defense is only historically bad when Samsonov plays

 

[Mogo]

I'm surprised Samsonov didn't end up in the Players Assistance Program.

We've seen a guy like Spencer Knight essentially shut it down over OCD. Samsonov seems to be dealing with a lot of mental health issues.

I agree. Surprised Leafs didnt you this loop hole or the other to get the cap hit off there hands

 

[Stephen]

I agree. Surprised Leafs didnt you this loop hole or the other to get the cap hit off there hands

Yeah I mean why not?

 

[Rob Brown]

I agree. Surprised Leafs didnt you this loop hole or the other to get the cap hit off there hands

The player has to agree, no? It's not like they can just send him away to a program.

 

[Scintillating10]

Hard to believe Samsanov could fall like this. From one season to next.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Hard to believe Samsanov could fall like this. From one season to next.

Must have been hanging with Alek Manoah.

 

[Scintillating10]

Must have been hanging with Alek Manoah.

It's odd isn't it

 

[Namikaze Minato]

It's odd isn't it

Something most people will never experience or understand, for sure. f***in Yips, what can you do?

 

[Musampa]

Hard to believe Samsanov could fall like this. From one season to next.

At the end of the summer there was a video with him in Russian. He said that during the arbitration hearing he heard many unpleasant things about himself. And it was clear that this was putting pressure on him. I think he's too sensitive

 

[Namikaze Minato]

At the end of the summer there was a video with him in Russian. He said that during the arbitration hearing he heard many unpleasant things about himself. And it was clear that this was putting pressure on him. I think he's too sensitive

Really? i would love to see that video, thats fascinating.

 

[Leviathan]

The player has to agree, no? It's not like they can just send him away to a program.

Fans around the league think the Leafs have the power to force players into Player Assistance programs and make them get career-jeopardizing surgeries to help the team's cap situation out of the goodness of their hearts (with nobody at the NHL or NHLPA raising any issue), so there's that.

 

[Jared Dunn]

At the end of the summer there was a video with him in Russian. He said that during the arbitration hearing he heard many unpleasant things about himself. And it was clear that this was putting pressure on him. I think he's too sensitive

It literally sounds like he's Russian Jack Campbell, incredibly hard on himself

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

At the end of the summer there was a video with him in Russian. He said that during the arbitration hearing he heard many unpleasant things about himself. And it was clear that this was putting pressure on him. I think he's too sensitive

Makes sense. Sammy always had freakish athleticism but he just never had the mental aspect to handle being a #1. Similarly, I’ve never seen Ovi yell at any teammate on the ice except Samsonov.

 

[North Cole]

Maybe this is supposed to be a new thread, but why did he get recalled so quickly?

I thought he would at least play some AHL games like Campbell. I suppose they have won some games so there is no danger of slipping into the wildcard, but there's no way he can have corrected whatever the issue was?

 

[Musampa]

We know that during arbitration hearings, team representatives talk a lot about how the player is bad in one aspect or another in an attempt to reduce contract $$$. Everyone understands that this is part of the business, but it seems Samsonov took it too personally. It began to seem to him that the team did not believe in him, did not support him, that he was alone with himself. In any case, you have to be mentally strong to play in the NHL. This is not a kindergarten

 

[Arthur Morgan]

oh yay hes back.

 

[34]

oh yay hes back.

The leafs are going to miss the playoffs if they plan on starting Samsonov. Just brutal.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Hard to believe Samsanov could fall like this. From one season to next.

Certainly hard to believe if you choose to literally not acknowledge how he became available to Toronto to begin with and the preceding years of his career.


Toronto signed a first round goaltender whose drafting team chose not to qualify him as an RFA… and people are literally in this thread acting like this is so uncharacteristic.


Imagine for a second, how inconsistent and broken a first round G with substantial NHL experience must be to not even be qualified. They literally saw his departure for free as an addition to their roster because he was so inconsistent and unable to be fixed.


But yes, if we ignore that, very hard to believe

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[34]

guaranteed loss for the leafs. They are going to get boo‘d off the ice.

 

[LeafalCrusader]