Confirmed with Link: Toews out indefinitely with illness

[Pez68]

It's equally hard to win the Hart or Art Ross now vs then.

You just have to be the best in the world. It was just harder for other players to crack the roster of an NHL team, with there only being so few teams.

For instance, only the top 30 d-men in the world had roster spots (teams basically carried 5 d-men).

This does not account for the difference in population and total number of hockey players. Hockey is way more popular now.

Edit: Hawkaholic beat me to it.

 

[SotasicA]

It's not equally as hard at all.

You are competing vs ~558 players for the Hart and Art Ross vs. ~108 -> ~250 when there were 6-14 teams. FAR less people played hockey back then, so that's irrelevant.

No. You are competing against the entirety of human population. Just that there were less of them playing in the NHL.

EDIT: like if you now expanded the NHL to 900 teams. Would it suddenly be 30x harder for McDavid to win the Hart because of all those new players?

 

[Pez68]

No. You are competing against the entirety of human population. Just that there were less of them playing in the NHL.

....exactly.....

Math is hard?

 

[Hawkaholic]

No. You are competing against the entirety of human population. Just that there were less of them playing in the NHL.

EDIT: like if you now expanded the NHL to 900 teams. Would it suddenly be 30x harder for McDavid to win the Hart because of all those new players?

Yeah, it would. Because you would probably have 30 more McDavids.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Lol. This is amazing.

 

[SotasicA]

Yeah, it would. Because you would probably have 30 more McDavids.

So if right now the NHL expanded to 900 teams, GM's would magically find 29 other McDavids from random places? Zero dilution of talent.

Then why don't the current GM's just sign those 29 other existing McDavids?

 

[SotasicA]

....exactly.....

Math is hard?

More of the pool playing in the NHL does not make it harder for the best to be the best.

I don't think McDavid would be threatened by more 4th liners, fringe players and more AHLers and KHLers and Finnish leaguers joining the NHL. I think he'd still be battling against MacKinnon and Kucherov and Matthews and Panarin etc. Why would more teams and more players in his league mean it's harder to be the best in the world?

If the NHL suddenly right now went back to 6 teams only, everybody who is not a first line / star player would be out of the league. For McDavid that would not make it easier or harder to win the Hart. Well, if anything, probably harder, right? I mean the competition in those games would be amazing.

 

[Pez68]

More of the pool playing in the NHL does not make it harder for the best to be the best.

I don't think McDavid would be threatened by more 4th liners, fringe players and more AHLers and KHLers and Finnish leaguers joining the NHL. I think he'd still be battling against MacKinnon and Kucherov and Matthews and Panarin etc. Why would more teams and more players in his league mean it's harder to be the best in the world?

If the NHL suddenly right now went back to 6 teams only, everybody who is not a first line / star player would be out of the league. For McDavid that would not make it easier or harder to win the Hart. Well, if anything, probably harder, right? I mean the competition in those games would be amazing.

This is a lack of understanding for statistics and probability distribution.

The more people on the planet, the more people playing hockey, the more good players there are, the more talent normalizes....

 

[bwana63]

wake me up when there's actual news

 

[x Tame Impala]

This has been one of my least favorite HF Hawks threads in memory. Starting with all of you guys and your stupid guesses at Toews’ health concerns.

Wish we knew more details but at this point I’m accepting that Toews coming back at an elite 1C level, or coming back at all, is probably not going to happen. Which is such a bummer. Toews is one of my favorite Chicago athletes of all time and has given me so many memorable moments as a Hawks fan

 

[Hawkaholic]

So if right now the NHL expanded to 900 teams, GM's would magically find 29 other McDavids from random places? Zero dilution of talent.

Then why don't the current GM's just sign those 29 other existing McDavids?

The NHL didn't all of the sudden become a 31 team league. If there are 900 NHL teams, that means there are probably 240 billion people on the planet or 7 billion people fall in love with hockey.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Except the facts are that the World population was 3.3B in 1965 (SIX teams) and the World population was 6.1B in 2000 (THIRTY teams)

So the league expanded 5X while population expanded <2X

That can only equal dilution of talent at the NHL level.

 

[Pez68]

Except the facts are that the World population was 3.3B in 1965 (SIX teams) and the World population was 6.1B in 2000 (THIRTY teams)

So the league expanded 5X while population expanded <2X

That can only equal dilution of talent at the NHL level.

That's really not how it works, unless you're assuming the same percentage of the population played hockey in 1965 vs. 2000. How many hockey players in 1965? How many in 2000?

 

[hawksrule]

That's really not how it works, unless you're assuming the same percentage of the population played hockey in 1965 vs. 2000. How many hockey players in 1965? How many in 2000?

It also assumes that the pool of players who could conceivably be scouted and have an opportunity to be considered for the nhl was as great then at it is now.

 

[Pez68]

It also assumes that the pool of players who could conceivably be scouted and have an opportunity to be considered for the nhl was as great then at it is now.

Right. The NHL back in 1965 was almost entirely Canadians. It was 96% in 1970, the furthest back I could find. It's currently 43%. The NHL is an international league now, as far as players are concerned. That fact alone tells you there's WAY more competition now.

As a sport becomes more popular, it becomes harder to make it to the professional level. Competition is higher. Average talent levels rise, and the talent gap between the best and worst players narrows. So naturally it becomes more difficult to be "the best".

This is such a stupid argument. Older generations love to pretend like everything was harder and better "back in their day". It's a nonsensical fallacy.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

The way the game is called now, no slashing, no obstruction etc., Hull, Howe, Orr, Mikita and a bunch of other guys from that era would go coast to coast at will and STILL light up the league without a doubt.

To think they couldn't do what McDavid does is ridiculous.

 

[Pez68]

The way the game is called now, no slashing, no obstruction etc., Hull, Howe, Orr, Mikita and a bunch of other guys from that era would go coast to coast at will and STILL light up the league without a doubt.

To think they couldn't do what McDavid does is ridiculous.

 

[LavalPhantom]

It's equally hard to win the Hart or Art Ross now vs then.

You just have to be the best in the world. It was just harder for other players to crack the roster of an NHL team, with there only being so few teams.

For instance, only the top 30 d-men in the world had roster spots (teams basically carried 5 d-men).

I agree with the fact that, all other things being equal, it doesn't matter whether there are 6 teams or 31 teams, being the best in the world is being the best in the world.

But yeah, when you factor the number of hockey players in the world then versus now, it's much harder to be the best in the world today. I would compare this to winning an Olympic gold medal in a marginal sport like trampoline versus at the 100m. Both are honouring the best in the world in a discipline, but there are countless more people that know how to run versus people that do trampoline. Not the same merit (although I'm a Canadian and we're specialists at winning sports that nobody practices like trampoline and curling haha).

 

[Mrfenn92]

Lots of Toews talk eh’

 

[Pez68]

Lots of Toews talk eh’

There's nothing to talk about.

 

[Mrfenn92]

There's nothing to talk about.

Seems to be though

 

[Nellie Fox]

Is it simply impossible to stay on the subject of the thread title? When I see there are new posts, I look to see if there's any Toews updates, and instead get to read more "Bobby Hull is excrement" and "there are 30 more Connor McDavids out there somewhere" posts.

 

[Pez68]

Is it simply impossible to stay on the subject of the thread title? When I see there are new posts, I look to see if there's any Toews updates, and instead get to read more "Bobby Hull is excrement" and "there are 30 more Connor McDavids out there somewhere" posts.

Welcome to the offseason?

 

[SotasicA]

This is a lack of understanding for statistics and probability distribution.

The more people on the planet, the more people playing hockey, the more good players there are, the more talent normalizes....

More people on the planet has nothing to do with how many teams there are in the NHL. And we were talking about more teams in the league.

 

[Fortyfives]