Post-Game Talk: #TimelySaves (Jets lose 4-2)

[MotionlessGravity]

Meh, most fans dont know the finer rules. The booing of that Ehlers non-trip was worse.

Yeah the dude beside me was Mr. know it all and screaming bloody murder at the refs in both cases for extended periods of time.

I have not seen a replay of the Ehlers "trip" from the end of the first but I had a great view of it in real time. To me it looked like he got his weight to far forward, and the puck was a bit out front of him. He ended up reaching and fell forward with a little bit of back pressure on him. There was no tipping motion or stick in his feet and the no call was probably correct from what I saw initially.

Same with the Buff incident, I was pretty sure the penalty shot was the right call in the defensive zone, but quickly googled it to be sure. Low and behold the refs were right but Mr. know it all had to yell at the top of his lungs for 2 minutes about how bad the ref was.

Some times you just have to roll your eyes sit quietly and let the uneducated be uneducated.

 

[Evil Little]

Except he doesn't do this with his vets. Buff Wheeler Little. If you're going to do that do it with everyone

Yeah, Little and Wheeler have been terrible.

Why exactly does everyone seem to be thinking this? The loss will go down as Pavelec's because of this:

"The goaltender who is in play when the winning or losing goal is allowed is the "goaltender on record" and is responsible for the win or the loss."

Seeing as the winning goal was the 3rd GA, while Pavelec was in net - the loss goes to Pavelec. Just go check the stats to see.

Regardless, It's sad to say but I'm all for the abolition of the entire coaching staff at this point. I can't abide by these decisions any longer... #ClaudeLaude

Look at the post I was responding to. It was in regards to a hypothetical scenario where the Jets scored a 4-3 goal, making the empty netter the game winning goal.

Is there a player in the NHL with worse gap control than Mark Stuart? Mo prattles on the other day about the importance of maintaining their gaps and how much of the Jets offense comes from that ability, yet he continually plays Stu. What the **** is he watching?

The Jets have two defensemen out.

First,
For everyone jumping on the Claude train.... just like to point out part of why he got canned was for not playing the young players enough. At least from what I've heard.

If you think Claude would leave Laine in the top six for 3/4 of the season with some of the **** games he's had your kidding yourself.

Second,
Funniest part of the PGT was watching everyone loose their **** when some fake icetimes were posted that clearly weren't accurate to anyone who watched the game.... Honestly shows how much of a critical eye some people have for the game.

Third,
How can anyone say PoMo doesn't treat his vets the same? Stafford and MP have both been sent to the 4th line, Stafford had some bad games in the top six and then got banished there for a handful of games until injuries hit. Wheeler and Chef both got benched for a period and a half at the start of the season. Buff is loosing icetime to Trouba as well.

I really thought I was gonna come on here and read a bunch of comments about the great effort we put up against the best team in the western conference. We played with these guys for 60 minutes and probably outplayed them for most of the 60.

Nevermind PoMo.... the amount of **** that just gets thrown on the wall around here with people hoping it sticks is fairly incredible.

Agreed. Jets lost a game they should've won. Happens.

I don't disagree with what you've written, but re: the bolded, I think that his atrocious backcheck after the interception and his overt reaction/gesture after the goal do warrant the discipline.

Laine's man was behind the play. He was over-committed on the backcheck.

The booing over Buff's stick gaffe penalty last night was embarrassing, learn the rules people. if you want to boo, boo Buff for being such a moron.

People boo good penalty calls all the time. Especially at the MTS Centre. Deal with it.

 

[leer2006]

Man, people are seriously going on about Laine raising his arm a bit after the other team scored? There was no way that was an overt gesture at Pav. He just as easily could have been going oh **** I screwed up and it ended up in our net. It's not as if he skated up to Pav and was like what the **** was that.

Hell, he would have been justified to do that though, that was a terrible goal. Pav lost us the game, I'd be pissed at him too.

If he Laine actually did that good for him. A really winner would know pav's is not any good and would call it out. WINNERS KNOW WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN.
What i want to know is what Perault said to Laine when Laine finally got back on the ice. Didn't look like a very friendly conversation. French looked angry or annoyed. I watched it 4 times to try to figure it out.

 

[surixon]

If he Laine actually did that good for him. A really winner would know pav's is not any good and would call it out. WINNERS KNOW WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN.
What i want to know is what Perault said to Laine when Laine finally got back on the ice. Didn't look like a very friendly conversation. French looked angry or annoyed. I watched it 4 times to try to figure it out.

Perrault seems to be on a one man mission to openly criticise others for poor play or other issues. He's called out Trouba and Helle already so if he chewed Laine kit for the play it fits his narrative this year.

 

[Ducky10]

The Jets have two defensemen out.

I realize that, try Melchiori out for awhile, what's to lose it can hardly get any worse. Got to love apathy.

Agreed. Jets lost a game they should've won. Happens

.

A lot, when do they start winning more games that they should?

Laine's man was behind the play. He was over-committed on the backcheck.

Huh, then he made a terrible read over committing on Coyle and then doing a drive by, leaving Pommer the open lane.

People boo good penalty calls all the time. Especially at the MTS Centre. Deal with it.

And people comment about it, deal with it.

 

[kunekune]

Perrault seems to be on a one man mission to openly criticise others for poor play or other issues. He's called out Trouba and Helle already so if he chewed Laine kit for the play it fits his narrative this year.

A proper goodbye before moving to Las Vegas.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Laine benching:
I have no problem with the "benching" (if we can actually call it that). Laine is 18, learning the game, and will occasionally make blunders. The lessons learned should be reinforced by the coach. It was an fugly pass, and Laine hadn't been playing well previous to that, either.

I doubt there are many coaches in the NHL who wouldn't do the same. Even if there are, I'm not sure I'd want them coaching the Jets. Maurice did the right thing, or at least justifiable.

My take is that Laine was frustrated with himself. Not with Pavs.

Goaltenders:
Given that Hellebuyck stepped in and looked totally fine, it's hard to imagine what justification Maurice has had for keeping Pavs in so long. Looks like the wrong call here by Maurice, and it may have cost us a win.

The Buff stick incident:
**** happens. If everybody wasn't five quarters crazy around here right now, we'd be laughing it off. Helle made the save.

All in all, it was a pretty entertaining game. The Jets played well. When I watch a game like that, I don't see much wrong with the team, outside of goaltending and a few youthful mistakes.

 

[surixon]

Laine benching:
I have no problem with the "benching" (if we can actually call it that). Laine is 18, learning the game, and will occasionally make blunders. The lessons learned should be reinforced by the coach. It was an fugly pass, and Laine hadn't been playing well previous to that, either.

I doubt there are many coaches in the NHL who wouldn't do the same. Even if there are, I'm not sure I'd want them coaching the Jets. Maurice did the right thing, or at least justifiable.

My take is that Laine was frustrated with himself. Not with Pavs.

Goaltenders:
Given that Hellebuyck stepped in and looked totally fine, it's hard to imagine what justification Maurice has had for keeping Pavs in so long. Looks like the wrong call here by Maurice, and it may have cost us a win.

The Buff stick incident:
**** happens. If everybody wasn't five quarters crazy around here right now, we'd be laughing it off. Helle made the save.

All in all, it was a pretty entertaining game. The Jets played well. When I watch a game like that, I don't see much wrong with the team, outside of goaltending and a few youthful mistakes.

My issue is with what I see as a growing conflict of different philosophies. Management has drafted, retained and gone out and acquired high end attack minded players. Whereas Maurice has coached and installed a very conservative low event scheme aimed at improving defensive results. His game plan hasn't focused on opening things up until such a time that the team is chasing games. More often than not when he does this the team responds positively.

I think that is where the biggest issue with the team other than goaltending is. I think either Maurice adapts to the players at his disposal (Something he's been hesitant to do so far) or we need to bring in a coach who will play to the team's strengths to consistiently get the most out of the players we have.

I don't have a big issue with sending a message to Laine, nor did I have one with the Scheifele, Wheeler benching. I do however have an issue with Buff continuing to do as he pleases without repricussions. I don't know how Maurice should go about it but what he's doing now isn't working. He's shown he can bench the captain, so he should be able to bench the team leader as that sewms to be his MO with dealing with mistakes with other players this year.

 

[peg]

My issue is with what I see as a growing conflict of different philosophies. Management has drafted, retained and gone out and acquired high end attack minded players. Whereas Maurice has coached and installed a very conservative low event scheme aimed at improving defensive results. His game plan hasn't focused on opening things up until such a time that the team is chasing games. More often than not when he does this the team responds positively.

I think that is where the biggest issue with the team other than goaltending is. I think either Maurice adapts to the players at his disposal (Something he's been hesitant to do so far) or we need to bring in a coach who will play to the team's strengths to consistiently get the most out of the players we have.

I don't have a big issue with sending a message to Laine, nor did I have one with the Scheifele, Wheeler benching. I do however have an issue with Buff continuing to do as he pleases without repricussions. I don't know how Maurice should go about it but what he's doing now isn't working. He's shown he can bench the captain, so he should be able to bench the team leader as that sewms to be his MO with dealing with mistakes with other players this year.

Anybody know what Patrick Roy is up to these days? Certainly liked letting his horses run in Colorado and seems to know a bit about goaltending

 

[Aavco Cup]

Why are people calling it a "benching"? It was just a demotion to the 4th line, he still continued to play but only 4th line minutes

 

[Ducky10]

Why are people calling it a "benching"? It was just a demotion to the 4th line, he still continued to play but only 4th line minutes

Meh, splitting hairs, call it what you want. There was clearly a message sent, that's more the discussion.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

My issue is with what I see as a growing conflict of different philosophies. Management has drafted, retained and gone out and acquired high end attack minded players. Whereas Maurice has coached and installed a very conservative low event scheme aimed at improving defensive results. His game plan hasn't focused on opening things up until such a time that the team is chasing games. More often than not when he does this the team responds positively.

I think that is where the biggest issue with the team other than goaltending is. I think either Maurice adapts to the players at his disposal (Something he's been hesitant to do so far) or we need to bring in a coach who will play to the team's strengths to consistiently get the most out of the players we have.

I don't have a big issue with sending a message to Laine, nor did I have one with the Scheifele, Wheeler benching. I do however have an issue with Buff continuing to do as he pleases without repricussions. I don't know how Maurice should go about it but what he's doing now isn't working. He's shown he can bench the captain, so he should be able to bench the team leader as that sewms to be his MO with dealing with mistakes with other players this year.

Good post.

I'm not sure I totally buy into the low event aspect being a problem yet. Maybe you're right. But I can imagine more offensively talented players being successful in a defense-focused game, and scoring on the break-out. It seems at least possible that might be even better, as the system compensates for where the players might otherwise be weak.

I know Garret wrote an article on this, but I haven't read it too closely yet. Maybe if I did, I'd come to another conclusion.

My problem is more simple at the moment, which is with defensive breakdowns. Although I didn't see too many of those last game, that were an obvious systematic problem anyway. Laine's pass was just a dumb pass.

Buff's inconsistent play is obviously a thorn in everybody's side this season. And I agree he gets away with a lot. That being said, every player and personality is different, and may require different coaching tactics. Maybe Maurice is doing the best he can with Buff. The other problem is that we have far less D depth to compensate for sitting Buff for any length of time. I don't think he's sat any of our top-4 D much this season, so maybe it's a positional thing, rather than Buff favoritism. At the very least, Trouba has started to take more of his minutes, so that's something.

 

[Evil Little]

I realize that, try Melchiori out for awhile, what's to lose it can hardly get any worse. Got to love apathy.

I have no problem with that. I also don't expect the results to be any better, other than on the PK.

A lot, when do they start winning more games that they should?

Probaby when they get a save.

Which is probably shortly after Hellebuyck gets the net back.

Huh, then he made a terrible read over committing on Coyle and then doing a drive by, leaving Pommer the open lane.

He probably still had his trailer covered, even over-committing on the puck carriers who weren't his.

The turnover was bad. The Backcheck was aggressive and fine.

And people comment about it, deal with it.

I did, thanks.

 

[Ducky10]

I have no problem with that. I also don't expect the results to be any better, other than on the PK.

Probably not but keeping it this way isn't doing any good.

Probaby when they get a save.

Which is probably shortly after Hellebuyck gets the net back.

Like before? They've been waiting for a save all year, would help to get one, not going to solve everything.

He probably still had his trailer covered, even over-committing on the puck carriers who weren't his.

The turnover was bad. The Backcheck was aggressive and fine.

Backcheck? The whole play was horribad, he was hopelessly out of the play.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Stafford and Perreault have been spending a lot of time on the 4th. We just can't demote Buff because our D depth is poor.

Its more important to send the right message than it is to keep some of our best players in the game for a few shifts, or a period, or a game. Whats the worst that would happen? We lose a game because of the discipline? How many do we lose because of the lack of discipline?

 

[garret9]

Yeah, Little and Wheeler have been terrible.

To be fair, Little's two-way numbers struggled early and Wheeler's 5v5 primary scoring is at an all time low as a Jet.

 

[garret9]

Despite all the "issues" with Buff, he's still the second best performer this season of the Jets defenders.
He is worse than his historical norm though, there is no doubt of that.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

It's not like the Laine demotion wasn't justifiable, but who really cares? It's needless, micromanaging nonsense, done to give some public display that you're actually "coaching".

Believe me, I'm not saying Maurice is the only NHL coach who does this. It's something that drives me up the wall about NHL coaches in general.

 

[pucka lucka]

It's not like the Laine demotion wasn't justifiable, but who really cares? It's needless, micromanaging nonsense, done to give some public display that you're actually "coaching".

Believe me, I'm not saying Maurice is the only NHL coach who does this. It's something that drives me up the wall about NHL coaches in general.

No **** eh? What is it actually teaching? I'll attempt to public humiliate you if you make a mistake? only if you're young though? What lesson did he learn? Don't make mistakes? I bet he's glad he now knows he's not supposed to make mistakes.

 

[kanadalainen]

No **** eh? What is it actually teaching? I'll attempt to public humiliate you if you make a mistake? only if you're young though? What lesson did he learn? Don't make mistakes? I bet he's glad he now knows he's not supposed to make mistakes.

It's not like the Laine demotion wasn't justifiable, but who really cares? It's needless, micromanaging nonsense, done to give some public display that you're actually "coaching".

Believe me, I'm not saying Maurice is the only NHL coach who does this. It's something that drives me up the wall about NHL coaches in general.

These posts are both A+.

 

[Ducky10]

It's not like the Laine demotion wasn't justifiable, but who really cares? It's needless, micromanaging nonsense, done to give some public display that you're actually "coaching".

Believe me, I'm not saying Maurice is the only NHL coach who does this. It's something that drives me up the wall about NHL coaches in general.

No **** eh? What is it actually teaching? I'll attempt to public humiliate you if you make a mistake? only if you're young though? What lesson did he learn? Don't make mistakes? I bet he's glad he now knows he's not supposed to make mistakes.

Yep and yep, fully agree, like Laine wasn't the first guy to realize he ****ed up with that pass. It was a bad decision, exacerbated by the fact his goaltender couldn't stop a beach ball, which was entirely snowed under by Laine's unforgivable act.

 

[JohnnyJet]

To be fair, Little's two-way numbers struggled early and Wheeler's 5v5 primary scoring is at an all time low as a Jet.

But wait until the opposing team has an empty net again, Wheels will be all over that in a heartbeat!

 

[Whileee]

Despite all the "issues" with Buff, he's still the second best performer this season of the Jets defenders.
He is worse than his historical norm though, there is no doubt of that.

Beyond the general decline in Buff's play that is measurable in statistical terms, I've been unhappy with his general approach and frequent casual and sometimes flippant play. A good example is his juvenile play last night - deliberately pushing a stick at the puck handler and drawing a penalty shot against in a 3-2 game. You can't measure that level of dumb play statistically, nor can you fully measure how that attitude might influence the rest of the team. I want All Star Buff back, who plays a sharp and serious game and dominates almost every shift with his physical presence and dynamic skill. The Jets need and expected that from him when they signed him to his big contract.

 

[Whileee]

Perrault seems to be on a one man mission to openly criticise others for poor play or other issues. He's called out Trouba and Helle already so if he chewed Laine kit for the play it fits his narrative this year.

Maybe Perreault was mad at Laine for making his 3.3% shooting percentage look bad, or maybe he was mad because he completely muffed a golden scoring opportunity by fumbling it into the goalie. Make a bad mistake and the other team scores. Make a bad mistake and don't score on a great opportunity. Result's the same.

Yes, I'm still a bit miffed at Perreault for calling anyone out, and especially for calling out Hellebuyck early in the season. As one of my coaches used to say, "shut up and play!"

 

[Evil Little]

To be fair, Little's two-way numbers struggled early and Wheeler's 5v5 primary scoring is at an all time low as a Jet.

Everyone playing with Laine's showing some wonky possession numbers and at least Wheeler's pumping his noise assists because he's on a line with Copp.

Beyond the general decline in Buff's play that is measurable in statistical terms, I've been unhappy with his general approach and frequent casual and sometimes flippant play. A good example is his juvenile play last night - deliberately pushing a stick at the puck handler and drawing a penalty shot against in a 3-2 game. You can't measure that level of dumb play statistically, nor can you fully measure how that attitude might influence the rest of the team. I want All Star Buff back, who plays a sharp and serious game and dominates almost every shift with his physical presence and dynamic skill. The Jets need and expected that from him when they signed him to his big contract.

I'm assuming that he was trying to get it out of the way so he could play defend the play but misplayed it. Neither of us have much access to his motivation at the time, though.