Post-Game Talk: #TimelySaves (Jets lose 4-2)

[Puckatron 3000]

It's not like the Laine demotion wasn't justifiable, but who really cares? It's needless, micromanaging nonsense, done to give some public display that you're actually "coaching".

Believe me, I'm not saying Maurice is the only NHL coach who does this. It's something that drives me up the wall about NHL coaches in general.

This post confuses me, Hank.

How could Laine's demotion be both justifiable, and micromanaging nonsense? Something is either justifiable, or nonsense, it can't be both.

Your "public display" comment also just seems like raw anger without any real point behind it, but maybe I'm missing something. It does seem to me that even the smart posters who I respect (yourself among them) tend to hit a point of frustration where they are no longer logical in their critique of a player/coach/team. It seems there's a lot of that going around on Maurice.

It's like every decision, or every interview quote is viewed through a lens of "I hate Maurice" - and you are far from the only one doing this. Some of the reactions to his latest interview over in the Paul Maurice thread are similarly confusing to me. I don't understand how disappointment in the team, or even valid critique of a certain aspect of Maurice's coaching seems to morph one's ability to logically view each move, each comment on their own merits. And instead apply some kind of global "everything they do sucks" pre-decision to any discussion on that person.

Maybe it's human nature to do so. But if so, we should at least recognize that it is not rational.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

This post confuses me, Hank.

How could Laine's demotion be both justifiable, and micromanaging nonsense? Something is either justifiable, or nonsense, it can't be both.

Your "public display" comment also just seems like raw anger without any real point behind it, but maybe I'm missing something. It does seem to me that even the smart posters who I respect (yourself among them) tend to hit a point of frustration where they are no longer logical in their critique of a player/coach/team. It seems there's a lot of that going around on Maurice.

It's like every decision, or every interview quote is viewed through a lens of "I hate Maurice" - and you are far from the only one doing this. Some of the reactions to his latest interview over in the Paul Maurice thread are similarly confusing to me. I don't understand how disappointment in the team, or even valid critique of a certain aspect of Maurice's coaching seems to morph one's ability to logically view each move, each comment on their own merits. And instead apply some kind of global "everything they do sucks" pre-decision to any discussion on that person.

Maybe it's human nature to do so. But if so, we should at least recognize that it is not rational.

Micromanagement has absolutely nothing to do with whether a decision is justifiable or not.

Maurice needs to worry about bigger ticket items. Starting the goalie that is likely worse than the one we have in the press box, for starters. Non-optimal use of our powerplay personnel. Finding a way to shelter a third pair that bleeds shot attempts. I could go on.

I also made it clear in the post you quoted that this is a beef I have with NHL coaching in general, not exclusive to Maurice.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Maurice needs to worry about bigger ticket items. Starting the goalie that is likely worse than the one we have in the press box, for starters. Non-optimal use of our powerplay personnel. Finding a way to shelter a third pair that bleeds shot attempts. I could go on.

This is what I'm talking about. You're unhappy with these other decisions by Maurice. That's fine. I agree with you on some of them. But why does this color your view of him demoting Laine? Which you (still confusingly to me) called justifiable, but then dropped the "micromanaging nonsense" and "public display of coaching" comments? What does one set of decisions have to do with the other?

Should I similarly point out a bunch of non-related things Maurice does well, as some sort of evidence that demoting Laine was a good thing?

I get that people want to vent. But after you read about 20 pages of it, I long for some more even discussion.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

This is what I'm talking about. You're unhappy with these other decisions by Maurice. That's fine. I agree with you on some of them. But why does this color your view of him demoting Laine? Which you (still confusingly to me) called justifiable, but then dropped the "micromanaging nonsense" and "public display of coaching" comments? What does one set of decisions have to do with the other?

Should I similarly point out a bunch of non-related things Maurice does well, as some sort of evidence that demoting Laine was a good thing?

I get that people want to vent. But after you read about 20 pages of it, I long for some more even discussion.

Longing for more even discussion doesnt change the fact that Maurice has made dumb decisions.

If you rant about discussion, then hope Mo comes to his senses.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Meh, splitting hairs, call it what you want. There was clearly a message sent, that's more the discussion.

Words matter. That's how the famous five year plan got somehow attributed to Chevy.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Longing for more even discussion doesnt change the fact that Maurice has made dumb decisions.

... sure? Did I say it did? Sorry, I don't understand your point here Tom.

If you rant about discussion, then hope Mo comes to his senses.

Nor here. I'm ranting? I'm just asking that we can discuss things that happen with the Jets, without every answer being "Maurice sucks". It's like these boards like to pick a scapegoat (Pavs, Maurice), and once it sinks its teeth into it, there's no room for anything else but blood.

 

[pucka lucka]

... sure? Did I say it did? Sorry, I don't understand your point here Tom.



Nor here. I'm ranting? I'm just asking that we can discuss things that happen with the Jets, without every answer being "Maurice sucks". It's like these boards like to pick a scapegoat (Pavs, Maurice), and once it sinks its teeth into it, there's no room for anything else but blood.

People ITT have said exactly what they think is wrong with Maurice as a coach. Who's to blame for these specific problems then? baby jesus? hockey fairies?

 

[YWGinYYZ]

People ITT have said exactly what they think is wrong with Maurice as a coach. Who's to blame for these specific problems then? baby jesus? hockey fairies?

I definitely agree with the bolded - there have been fairly descriptive and well thought out reasons for why people are not enamoured with Maurice this year. Granted, there has been some shouting from a soapbox style posts as well, but you can only repeat the same thing regarding your underlying reasoning so often.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

People ITT have said exactly what they think is wrong with Maurice as a coach. Who's to blame for these specific problems then? baby jesus? hockey fairies?

Yes. That was the point of my posts. Baby Jesus is responsible for the team's problems. Do you guys even read the stuff you're responding to?

All right, forget it.

 

[Ducky10]

Yes. That was the point of my posts. Baby Jesus is responsible for the team's problems. Do you guys even read the stuff you're responding to?

All right, forget it.

Don't throw in the towel, I think it's pretty natural when things aren't going as well as people would like that the lynch mob mentality becomes far more prevalent. The shoot first, ask questions later stuff tends to die down after a win or two, Laine needs another hat trick to make everyone feel better about themselves. There will always be the blood lust types but there has also been plenty of intelligent discourse about Maurice, sometimes the frustration seeps in but it's not all bad.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Yes. That was the point of my posts. Baby Jesus is responsible for the team's problems. Do you guys even read the stuff you're responding to?

All right, forget it.

You complain about the board talking about Maurice, but there's a reason the board is talking about Maurice.

It's kind of like if the city had the red river on fire, and some people were saying: Why are we always talking about the river on fire?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You dang well know that TSNE controls the media here. And for sure, when every one of the media guys is doing the exact same slant and asking the players the same silly questions when it comes to Pavs, THERE IS A DIRECTIVE OF SOME SORT.

Really can't be any clearer than it is now.

So ........ what is the motive, what's the goal of this conspiracy?



I usually reject the idea that ALL of our local media are such lapdogs but I can't deny it looks suspicious when they are ALL on board and are all using the same key words. WTF? But it seems like a lot of effort. Jets PR had to bring out the big stick. What for? There is nothing here to benefit the org.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

There's no way TNSE is controlling the media. (I work for a smaller time paper in rural MB)

I know it looks bad, but I think the big media members are mostly older-school guys, and the up and comers are in the trenches right now. Give it time, and the old school guys will be replaced.

You also have a lot of people that just go with whatever narrative is put out. I do it too at times in a small town. The person you first hear from will influence your opinion a lot more than anyone else.

 

[SoCalJetsFan]

Yeah, Little and Wheeler have been terrible.



Look at the post I was responding to. It was in regards to a hypothetical scenario where the Jets scored a 4-3 goal, making the empty netter the game winning goal.



The Jets have two defensemen out.



Agreed. Jets lost a game they should've won. Happens.



Laine's man was behind the play. He was over-committed on the backcheck.



People boo good penalty calls all the time. Especially at the MTS Centre. Deal with it.

Agree with the first part, but do not agree with the 2nd part. Fans do it everywhere on every sport. It's what home town fans do.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Afaic, demoting a guy like Laine for that play was pretty unnecessary. Did you see him skating back to the bench after that goal? He looked like his puppy just died. He knew what was what and I bet he would have been working like a madman the rest of the game to make up for it. He's one of the few guys on the team who has a real chance of turning that game around but he won't do much on the 4th line...

Agree with this. It was not quite like the message sent to Ehlers a while ago. Ehlers was slipping into some bad habits and looked like he needed a wake up call. In this case Laine was quite aware of his mistake. Altogether too much is being made of it though. Way, way too much. It was a coach sending a message to a young player. It should be completely in the past now.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well he's apparently looking at filling one of the holes. He needs to be very aggressive post expansion draft with goaltending. Find a goalie and bring in a A list coach and this team rockets up the standings.

?????

Are you talking about that statement that he is looking at D? Don't put too much stock into that. Every GM in the league is looking at D, all the time. If he is getting serious it is in reaction to Myers being out tong term. He is looking for a temporary RHD to replace Myers for our run to a PO spot. - And yes, I know that doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

I don't even think Maurice is a bad coach, tbh. He's a mediocre one who typically gets results early, and then starts coaching himself into a corner.

No **** eh? What is it actually teaching? I'll attempt to public humiliate you if you make a mistake? only if you're young though? What lesson did he learn? Don't make mistakes? I bet he's glad he now knows he's not supposed to make mistakes.

Exactly. It's all for show.

 

[nobody important]

You complain about the board talking about Maurice, but there's a reason the board is talking about Maurice.

It's kind of like if the city had the red river on fire, and some people were saying: Why are we always talking about the river on fire?

I think a better analogy would be that so many people are complaining about the river being on fire, without presenting any reasoned, well-presented arguments as to why the river being on fire is a bad thing.

 

[broinwhyteridge]

#paverage
#nearlyperfect
#itsaprocess
#pushtotheplayoffs
#timelysaves
#untimelybadgoalsleftrightandcentre

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Why exactly does everyone seem to be thinking this? The loss will go down as Pavelec's because of this:

"The goaltender who is in play when the winning or losing goal is allowed is the "goaltender on record" and is responsible for the win or the loss."

Seeing as the winning goal was the 3rd GA, while Pavelec was in net - the loss goes to Pavelec. Just go check the stats to see.

Regardless, It's sad to say but I'm all for the abolition of the entire coaching staff at this point. I can't abide by these decisions any longer... #ClaudeLaude

Who cares anyway? Really. W/L records are for pitchers, not goalies.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Great post.

I knew this would be a developmental season, and in some ways the young players have exceeded expectations. My main concern is that Maurice is able to focus on developing youth. He needs to play them in prominent roles. Yanking Hellebuyck 7 times in the past season or so is a red flag for me. It can't help his confidence. Pavs should be out - permanently. He has no role in the future of this team. I don't really care if the vets get ticked off by another year of development. If Wheeler or Little don't want to stick around, they can let Chevy know now and he can move them before having to try to deal with their contracts. If they want to stay, then they should be ready to bear through the development.

Still, Maurice's handling of the goaltending has been very questionable.

That's a good post Whileee. If we are concentrating on development then do it right. If done right we can concentrate on winning by next year. That should make Little and Wheeler happy. Do it wrong and we are doing it again next year. That won't make the veterans happy.

Get Pavelec as far away from this team as possible. He should have been bought out last off-season. Then there would be no excuse for any player feeling more confident with him there. Like there is now? They never felt that way in the past. Whatever, it is past time they got over any such feelings. Stop playing down to them.