Speculation: The Quest to sign Lindholm: Part II

[aj8000]

I think if lindholm is in fact available, chances are we are not trading him to a team in the western conference that would potentially take a playoff spot away unless there is a huge over payment.

Most likely hed be heading east, and I'm guessing teams like buffalo detroit boston and Toronto would be bidding on him. I also don't know if I'm buying the equal defencemen part... I think we should look for a solid top 4 in his own end to play with vatanen or fowler, and then a good forward/forward prospect to go along with it. I just cant see us trading him in the west if we do trade him unless the team is paying an amount the fan base isn't going to like.

Considering the Ducks cannot take back any significant salary cap we have the following.

Boston does not have the cap space to sign him;
Detroit does not have the cap space to sign him;
Buffalo does not have the cap space to sign him;
Toronto does not have the cap space to sign him

Maybe if the trade was for only picks and prospects that can sit in the A and not affect the Ducks salary, this will work

 

[Brock Radunske]

I think if lindholm is in fact available, chances are we are not trading him to a team in the western conference that would potentially take a playoff spot away unless there is a huge over payment.

Most likely hed be heading east, and I'm guessing teams like buffalo detroit boston and Toronto would be bidding on him. I also don't know if I'm buying the equal defencemen part... I think we should look for a solid top 4 in his own end to play with vatanen or fowler, and then a good forward/forward prospect to go along with it. I just cant see us trading him in the west if we do trade him unless the team is paying an amount the fan base isn't going to like.

I'd like to think the Leafs would be in on this but I can't see them trading Rielly and I can't see the Ducks wanting Gardiner back.
Maybe JVR @ 50% + Gardiner for Lindholm + Stoner?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I've never understood that logic myself, but I respect your opinion if that's how you feel.

Whats not to get, we trade the jets lindholm , that basically fixes their defense... chances are they become a legit playoff team/wild card team and they potentially take a spot away from Anaheim, you don't want to help the competition get stronger and take away potential playoff spots from you, how often have you seen Anaheim move a big name player to a western conference foe?

Andersen - Toronto
Ryan- Ottawa
Palmeiri- New jersey
Haglin - Pitt

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I'd like to think the Leafs would be in on this but I can't see them trading Rielly and I can't see the Ducks wanting Gardiner back.
Maybe JVR @ 50% + Gardiner for Lindholm + Stoner?

See I don't believe that part of the rumor(the cost being an equal defensemen), like I said in other thread if you trade lindholm you are saying basically fowler is your guy and lindholm is expendable(to an extent). I think it makes more sense if your going to move him move him for a top flight young forward, or a solid top 4 dmen and a good forward piece + depending on those pieces.

Jvr@50 + gardiner for lindholm and stoner is actually prob a pretty close, decent move in my book(but I also have no intention of trading lindholm.

Fowler + Manson
Gardiner + Vatanen
Larsson/Theodore + Bieksa

isn't a horrible D, and jvr makes our forward lines much better, I'm not sure if you guys take Stoner we need the 50 percent off retention, would much rather have a solid forward prospect instead.

 

[CherryToke]

he wants 6 mil and nothing is done yet? I would be pissed if I was a ducks fan.

 

[Joey Moss]

Puljujarvi + Nurse intrigue Anaheim?

 

[aj8000]

Depends a lot on how severe Despres concussion is. If he's seriously hurt, he might be done playing hockey completely. Then we just put him on LTIR with Thompson, move some ELC contracts down and re-sign Lindholm. Which seems to be what Murray wants to do since it's been reported that he wants to get Lindholm re-signed without making a trade.

Yes that is possible; however, how does that affect the fabled internal budget? If this was the solution, I speculate that Lindholm would already be signed if the contract difference is a little as it has been reported.

If that isn't an option, then someone like Stoner probably gets traded with a high value piece back (1st/Montour/Larsson) to move him. Then we put Thompson on LTIR since he's supposed to be out until the TDL anyways, move ELC around and re-sign Lindholm.

The problem is you need a team to take stoner who has cap space to burn. That leaves you with approximately five teams, Ottawa, Florida, New jersey, Winnipeg and Carolina. This option maybe difficult but it would depend on what the add is. I do not see the ducks giving up a 1st to get rid of Stoner.

I would love to see how trading Lindholm is the right choice though, according to you. Probably our best, second best defensemen and only 22 years old. So trading him hurts us now and in the future. Would love to hear your reasoning as to why we should trade him though.

They do not want to trade him, all I am saying is they may be backed into a corner and have no choice. Unfortunately, the poor cap management of the Ducks have backed them into a corner and it they cannot find a willing partner to help solve their cap problem, the only choice they have is to trade Lindholm or let him sit for a year.

 

[Stej]

Whats not to get, we trade the jets lindholm , that basically fixes their defense... chances are they become a legit playoff team/wild card team and they potentially take a spot away from Anaheim, you don't want to help the competition get stronger and take away potential playoff spots from you, how often have you seen Anaheim move a big name player to a western conference foe?

Andersen - Toronto
Ryan- Ottawa
Palmeiri- New jersey
Haglin - Pitt

I'd always just prefer to get the best value possible and let the chips fall where they may. In general, assuming the value difference is not negligible, I've never understand why you'd be willing to make your team relatively weaker vs the other 28 teams, just so you avoid improving the 29th team. Seems more likely to cost you a playoff spot that way. You might only play the Jets 1 or 2 times more than a team out east.

Of course all that logic falls apart if the deals are very close in value. In that case, you'd obviously choose to ship him east.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Considering the Ducks cannot take back any significant salary cap we have the following.

Boston does not have the cap space to sign him;
Detroit does not have the cap space to sign him;
Buffalo does not have the cap space to sign him;
Toronto does not have the cap space to sign him

Maybe if the trade was for only picks and prospects that can sit in the A and not affect the Ducks salary, this will work

I'm guessing there would be more moves, or a way for Anaheim to relieve some caps to make certain moves. Either way this is still just a rumor/speculation, and falls under the ill believe it when I see it category.


I'm pretty sure no moves makes sense for Anaheim right now with our cap situation unless were getting prospect/picks.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I'd always just prefer to get the best value possible and let the chips fall where they may. In general, assuming the value difference is not negligible, I've never understand why you'd be willing to make your team relatively weaker vs the other 28 teams, just so you avoid improving the 29th team. Seems more likely to cost you a playoff spot that way. You might only play the Jets 1 or 2 times more than a team out east.

Of course all that logic falls apart if the deals are very close in value. In that case, you'd obviously choose to ship him east.

Well I agree to an extent but honestly I feel like if he was available there are a number of teams in the east that would be very interested, and would likely be willing to pay a bit more then the jets.

 

[Stej]

Well I agree to an extent but honestly I feel like if he was available there are a number of teams in the east that would be very interested, and would likely be willing to pay a bit more then the jets.

Fair point.

 

[aj8000]

]I'm guessing there would be more moves[/B], or a way for Anaheim to relieve some caps to make certain moves. Either way this is still just a rumor/speculation, and falls under the ill believe it when I see it category.


I'm pretty sure no moves makes sense for Anaheim right now with our cap situation unless were getting prospect/picks.

The problem is, the more moves and/or teams involved to make a trade makes any potential deal that much harder to make. Since many teams have their team set and are close to the cap, they are highly unlikely to do the Ducks a solid here.

 

[Pennaduck]

I will ask again, how are you going to sign Lindholm then? You feel my speculation is crap, so tell me how the ducks are going to get out of this mess? Lets say 5.5 million per year? or do you want the home town discount to make it easier for you at 5 million per year?

First, you LTIR Despres and Thompson to get some temporary cap relief to use as breathing room

Then, you try to package Stoner with a 2017 2nd and one of Sorenson, Pettersson, Noesen, Kerdiles, Kossila, or Nattinen. If that doesn't garner interest, you package Stoner with one of: 2017 1st, Montour, Larsson, or Theodore. If there still is no interest, you up the deal until his either full salary is dumped or you have a winning combination of sweetener piece(s) and salary retention.

If moving Stoner fails on all fronts, you have the option of trading one of Fowler, Vatanen, Silfverberg for an ELC forward or picks/prospects. This is not an option Ducks fans want, particularly weakening our already shallow forward depth by moving Silf, but these three players are definitely movable if that is the only option to clear space to pay Lindholm between 5 and 6 million.

I'm sure the tweet about the Ducks listening to trade offers is more speculative than factual, but it is reasonable to assume Murray has been fielding calls. He wouldn't be doing his job otherwise, and if a deal moving Lindholm makes the team better, than I suppose it could happen. There are a lot of options to work on though before you get to the point where actually need to trade him. All we know right now is that the two sides are still working on a dollar figure that is agreeable to all. Murray obviously has a number in mind that he wants Lindholm signed at, and another number that is the absolute highest he can afford to sign him at. Until both sides agree that somewhere around those numbers is a fair value, there is (and has not been) any urgency to move salary out. There is no sense stripping the NHL or AHL team of talent while negotiations are still ongoing.

These points have been put forth by Ducks fans for months now to varying degrees. Some speculative tweet saying the Ducks would be willing to move Lindholm for a comparable top young defenseman changes nothing

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

The problem is, the more moves and/or teams involved to make a trade makes any potential deal that much harder to make. Since many teams have their team set and are close to the cap, they are highly unlikely to do the Ducks a solid here.

Taking a top young defensemen from Anaheim is doing them a solid

 

[dracom]

Puljujarvi + Nurse intrigue Anaheim?

No thanks. Nurse is not that good.

Yes that is possible; however, how does that affect the fabled internal budget? If this was the solution, I speculate that Lindholm would already be signed if the contract difference is a little as it has been reported.



The problem is you need a team to take stoner who has cap space to burn. That leaves you with approximately five teams, Ottawa, Florida, New jersey, Winnipeg and Carolina. This option maybe difficult but it would depend on what the add is. I do not see the ducks giving up a 1st to get rid of Stoner.



They do not want to trade him, all I am saying is they may be backed into a corner and have no choice. Unfortunately, the poor cap management of the Ducks have backed them into a corner and it they cannot find a willing partner to help solve their cap problem, the only choice they have is to trade Lindholm or let him sit for a year.

Safe to say there's no internal budget right now. With the expansion team money every team got, the Ducks have more money to spend. The Ducks also went above the internal cap when they re-signed Getz and Perry, so it's not like they are afraid to do so when it comes to keeping future star players.

If a team has the cap space, I don't see how they would say no to a Stoner for Larsson/Montour/a 1st. It's a better offer than other teams got for cap dumps, while Stoner still be a better player than any of those cap dumps.

You said trading Lindholm would be the right choice. Either you severally misspoke or you're just going back on what you said. Well seeing as how Murray has said he wants to get Lindholm re-signed with make a trade, it's far fetched to say the Ducks don't have any willing trading partners.

 

[aj8000]

Well I agree to an extent but honestly I feel like if he was available there are a number of teams in the east that would be very interested, and would likely be willing to pay a bit more then the jets.

Yes, there will be other bidders from the east; however, I doubt they would be willing to take on a salary dump to land Lindholm without sending salary back which is something the Ducks cannot take.

If the Ducks have a problem and decide (not saying it is fact here) they have to trade Lindholm, the Jets are their best option to maximize value. That is assuming that Trouba and Lindholm have no issues playing for the other team.

 

[Pennaduck]

The problem is, the more moves and/or teams involved to make a trade makes any potential deal that much harder to make. Since many teams have their team set and are close to the cap, they are highly unlikely to do the Ducks a solid here.

That's a valid point, but I would counter by saying that injuries happen throughout the season, and no team's roster will be set in stone this year due to the upcoming expansion draft, so I would expect trades will be as likely or even more likely than in years past.

Murray certainly hasn't done himself any favors lately, and he is going to have to part with something of value here to clear room for Lindholm, but there should be enough valuable pieces in our organization for a market to be found, even at this late date

 

[aj8000]

Taking a top young defensemen from Anaheim is doing them a solid

Taking the cap space from the ducks is. The cap space is very valuable. If Stoner had one year left and was a UFA next year, it would be easier to dump him; however, being a two year dump, you will have a very difficult time dumping him unless the add from the ducks is very good.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Taking the cap space from the ducks is. The cap space is very valuable. If Stoner had one year left and was a UFA next year, it would be easier to dump him; however, being a two year dump, you will have a very difficult time dumping him unless the add from the ducks is very good.

Idk why we wouldn't just add a 1st to stoner to get it done at this point... was a dumb contract to begin with.

 

[aj8000]

Safe to say there's no internal budget right now. With the expansion team money every team got, the Ducks have more money to spend. The Ducks also went above the internal cap when they re-signed Getz and Perry, so it's not like they are afraid to do so when it comes to keeping future star players.

Fair enough, but I still think it is an issue. In the end they may go this way to push the problem down the road.

If a team has the cap space, I don't see how they would say no to a Stoner for Larsson/Montour/a 1st. It's a better offer than other teams got for cap dumps, while Stoner still be a better player than any of those cap dumps.

Because stoners contract is two years and most teams may want that cap space next year to sign their own RFAs. If Stoner had one year left, more teams would be willing to take him on.

You said trading Lindholm would be the right choice. Either you severally misspoke or you're just going back on what you said. Well seeing as how Murray has said he wants to get Lindholm re-signed with make a trade, it's far fetched to say the Ducks don't have any willing trading partners.

Which post is that? I usually try to have a "may" or 'possibly" in front of something like that.

Do not get me wrong, I know the Ducks and the Duck fans do not want to trade Lindholm. I get it, I do not want the Jets to trade Trouba and I hope that he changes his mind; however, reality is the likely will not have a choice and unfortunately, the ducks after exhausting all other options be left with the one option they really do not want to do and that is trade Lindholm.

 

[lindholmie]

did aj move into this thread

 

[aj8000]

That's a valid point, but I would counter by saying that injuries happen throughout the season, and no team's roster will be set in stone this year due to the upcoming expansion draft, so I would expect trades will be as likely or even more likely than in years past.

Murray certainly hasn't done himself any favors lately, and he is going to have to part with something of value here to clear room for Lindholm, but there should be enough valuable pieces in our organization for a market to be found, even at this late date

Yes, injuries in the next month could change many things, maybe the other teams are waiting this out to see how desperate the Ducks are to make a deal.

 

[aj8000]

did aj move into this thread

I told you, got tired of the Trouba trade thread and this is the only other RFA not signed so I stopped in for a bit.

 

[krt88]

The only team with legitimate cap space is Carolina.

Now if Anaheim is willing to move Limdholm, the Canes also have lots of defensive talent. Perhaps there's a deal there.

However, I don't see how Anaheim ever frees up the cap space to make a serious move.

 

[BruinDust]

Wonder if Anaheim would consider trading Silfverberg to Boston straight up for Spooner?

Both players are off to poor starts. Saves Anaheim about 3 million in cap space.