The Official WTF is Pierre Dorion doing thread

[Ouroboros]

Dahlen was ranked fifth on Ottawa's team list in THN's Future Watch issue, which apparently comes from scouts within the organization.

So at least one person in hockey operations disagrees with Dorion's assessment.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Jesus, I am astounded by the lengths some posters have gone to to defend Dorion in this thread. Like, I'm pretty sure Dahlen could become a perennial 1st liner for the Nucks, getting 60-70 points per season, and people would still be calling the trade a win for us.

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

yes that's the consensus opinion

but here's another widely accepted concept on HF Boards:

Fan bases over value their prospects

anyone think there's even a possibility that's the situation with Dahlen ?

Yes that is true but I wouldn't say that was the case with Dahlen/Burrows at the time of the trade. Dorian gave up a top ten prospect (anywhere from 4-10 depending on where you look) in a pretty decent prospect pool for immediate help in a 36 year old. I saw Burrows play his entire career in Vancouver and was happy when he was traded to Ottawa but anyway you shake it the Sens overpaid. PD should've gotten more but prices around the TDL go up and down so much it's hard to know how much more.

Now since the trade I would say Dahlen's value has been inflated quite a bit. Part of it due to him signing an ELC, part of it because they just drafted Petterson, and part of it because that fanbase is looking for bright spots in an otherwise gloomy upcoming season. I've heard TSN radio in Vancouver call that trade the best of Benning's tenure. I've seen polls on HF where Canucks fans are thinking Dahlen is their best prospect which is just not true, but speaks to how "overvalued" Dahlen has become.

So sure, the trade sucked and I would prefer Dahlen in the system than Burrows on the fourth line for the next two years but the hype post-trade is making it out to be worse than it is. I'll hold that stance until we see Dahlen in the NHL as a full-timer.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Yes that is true but I wouldn't say that was the case with Dahlen/Burrows at the time of the trade. Dorian gave up a top ten prospect (anywhere from 4-10 depending on where you look) in a pretty decent prospect pool for immediate help in a 36 year old. I saw Burrows play his entire career in Vancouver and was happy when he was traded to Ottawa but anyway you shake it the Sens overpaid. PD should've gotten more but prices around the TDL go up and down so much it's hard to know how much more.

Now since the trade I would say Dahlen's value has been inflated quite a bit. Part of it due to him signing an ELC, part of it because they just drafted Petterson, and part of it because that fanbase is looking for bright spots in an otherwise gloomy upcoming season. I've heard TSN radio in Vancouver call that trade the best of Benning's tenure. I've seen polls on HF where Canucks fans are thinking Dahlen is their best prospect which is just not true, but speaks to how "overvalued" Dahlen has become.

So sure, the trade sucked and I would prefer Dahlen in the system than Burrows on the fourth line for the next two years but the hype post-trade is making it out to be worse than it is. I'll hold that stance until we see Dahlen in the NHL as a full-timer.

A lot of talk just to get down to the fact that we never should have given up Dahlen for an again bottom six-er. The hype that follows has nothing to do with anything. It was a buyer's market when Dorion made the trade and any GM worth his salt would not have handed over a top-5 prospect(and yes, he was in our top-5) for someone who won't even be on the map in two years(perhaps just one).

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

A lot of talk just to get down to the fact that we never should have given up Dahlen for an again bottom six-er. The hype that follows has nothing to do with anything. It was a buyer's market when Dorion made the trade and any GM worth his salt would not have handed over a top-5 prospect(and yes, he was in our top-5) for someone who won't even be on the map in two years(perhaps just one).

There was a question asked about if Dahlen's value had been overvalued by the fanbase, and I answered that.

Not arguing where he was ranked in the Sens system, and not arguing that the deal Dorian made was garbage given what Dahlen could become.

Simply stating that until he plays in the NHL it's hard to know what kind of production he'll have. He's still probably a year away from that.

From Bob McKenzie:
“I think he’s a good prospect. I think there’s mixed opinions but he’s good from the top of the circles down. He’s not an overly-fast skater and not an overly-strong kid. He’s really gifted in terms of his ability to score goals. A couple teams said, ‘No question he’s a really good prospect, he’s going to be a top 6 scoring winger.’ I talked to a couple teams who said that, because he’s not a dynamic skater and he’s more of a top of the circles down-guy, he slots in more at a 3rd-line winger. The consensus is he’s going to play in the NHL, the question is how high in the line-up and how any goals.”

 

[BonkTastic]

A lot of talk just to get down to the fact that we never should have given up Dahlen for an again bottom six-er.

Agreed. It was a bad trade. Pretty much most people said as much when it happened (myself included), and not much has changed in that regard. It's still a bad trade in hindsight. I don't even hate Burrows as a player, I don't mind at all that we acquired him in a vacuum, I just hate that it costs us so much to do so. We overpaid.


... the insane amount of melodramatic hand-wringing and doomsday augury that has happened about the deal since the trade, however:

 

[JD1]

Look, if you're going to take Dorion's words as gospel, I don't know what to tell you, I certainly don't, but it is what it is. The last ~10 years have definitely taught me that he should not be taken seriously with much of what he says about our prospects ("If we hadn't of traded our 2014 1st, Englund is the guy we were targeting anyways" is just one of the more laughable ones).

Anything Dorion has done seems infallible to you

so when Dorion says we had Dahlen in our top 30 you grab on to that like it is gospel and keep posting that he was a 1st round quality pick? I thought you said you don't believe a word the man says....I guess the difference is when it fits your agenda?

I've been a hockey addict for many years and seen, read and heard alot. In no way do i think Dorion is infallible and I'll even say if it was me I would have brought in a more experienced guy. That said wrt Dahlen I really could care less....what I've done on this board over the past month or so is correct inaccuracies posted about him. you know, stuff like

close in age to the #5
ppg in his draft year
high 2nd round pick
mens league

it is one thing to have an opinion on a player.. everyone does and everyone is entitled.. but with this particular player after he was traded the fake news started coming left and right....and that seems to me to be related to tearing Dorion down. one superlative after another created about this player....facts be damned

 

[bert]

A lot of talk just to get down to the fact that we never should have given up Dahlen for an again bottom six-er. The hype that follows has nothing to do with anything. It was a buyer's market when Dorion made the trade and any GM worth his salt would not have handed over a top-5 prospect(and yes, he was in our top-5) for someone who won't even be on the map in two years(perhaps just one).

The Methot situation also intensifies the trade. Essentially the team was willing to gave up more valuable assets for s 4th liner than they were willing to give up for a first pairing defenseman.

The spin job on both situations from management is what infuriates people most, hence this exact thread.

The overall asset management by Pierre Dorion has been awful. These two situations are very obvious and clear examples.

 

[Icelevel]

Was always scared of this happening, Dorion taking over as gm.reminds me of managers I had working for the government.
He is not smart enough. But thankfully luck plays a part and so we still have a chance!

 

[JD1]

We talkin' bad breath , Listerine PK here ? I get what you are saying .... but when GMs and Coaches speak to the media there is more of a plan and a filter than when players speak about their team mates after a big win or before a big game.

Dorion made a trade... he up played what he got ; high five and hugs, and pinch myself, and he down played what he gave ... not that high on our list , ...expendable... like you would expect from any run of the mill used car salesman. If he would have come out and said ,., we hated to give x up because we thought highly of him, that's why we drafted him less than a year ago, and he has done nothing to disappoint us as anyone paying attention would know but that was the price and we made the call it was worth it to get the veteran presence with playoff experience... blah blah... I would have preferred that because to me that's closer to the truth.. you can disagree here but I think it is.

I would prefer that type of approach as well...just the facts

 

[JD1]

Jesus, I am astounded by the lengths some posters have gone to to defend Dorion in this thread. Like, I'm pretty sure Dahlen could become a perennial 1st liner for the Nucks, getting 60-70 points per season, and people would still be calling the trade a win for us.

like me L'Avy?

read again....I'm not defending Dorion per se.. . I've been disputing a lot of things posted about Dahlen that are posted as facts but are clearly incorrect

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I think That Dorion has been told to run the team but also is instructed to select players that will help increase the local market share on the French Canadian side. Burrows is a big name to some on the other side of the river.

That is my two cents

 

[JD1]

A lot of talk just to get down to the fact that we never should have given up Dahlen for an again bottom six-er. The hype that follows has nothing to do with anything. It was a buyer's market when Dorion made the trade and any GM worth his salt would not have handed over a top-5 prospect(and yes, he was in our top-5) for someone who won't even be on the map in two years(perhaps just one).

so speaking of things being posted that are not quite accurate.....where does the he was in our top 5 come from? certainly not from Dorion's

 

[bert]

so speaking of things being posted that are not quite accurate.....where does the he was in our top 5 come from? certainly not from Dorion's

He was a top 5 prospect because he was a top 5 prospect.... The fact that you believe what comes out of Dorions mouth when he has spun every single situation since he has had a mic in his face is incredible.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

yes that's the consensus opinion

but here's another widely accepted concept on HF Boards:

Fan bases over value their prospects

anyone think there's even a possibility that's the situation with Dahlen ?

It doesn't matter how fans view Dahlen.

The fact is, he was an overpayment to land Burrows. It has nothing to do with how fans view Dahlen.

You're clutching at straws here. It's getting old.

 

[BonkTastic]

He is not smart enough.

I'm surely sure you came to this conclusion with plenty of evidence and hands-on interaction with the man, Dr. Icelevel

Curiously asking: What are your professional credentials that allow you this unique insight? Are you an Analyst? A Therapist? Maybe the rare hybrid of the two?

 

[Knave]

It doesn't matter what Dahlen will become. A low round '1st' which was what we probably could have gotten for Dahlen is a steep price for Burrows.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

New thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2368613