The Official WTF is Pierre Dorion doing thread

[HSF]

I think that goes without saying that they thought he had top line potential. Why else would you draft a skill player in the early 2nd round?

I don't think I have seen teams think or say they are getting top line guys in the 2nd round

 

[branch]

which is a tier below the SHL

What's your point? He was 18. Of course he was playing in your junior league. Sam Steel had a fantastic year in the W as well. Would you discount that by saying it is a tier below the NHL?

 

[JungleBeat]

which is a tier below the SHL

Which is also tougher than the CHL. Should we discount CHL prospects because they're a tier below the AHL?

We've been over this dude.

 

[branch]

I don't think I have seen teams think or say they are getting top line guys in the 2nd round

Sometimes you swing for the fences and go in on a diamond in the rough that you think can be a top line/top 6 forward.

 

[BondraTime]

which is a tier below the SHL

What does that have to do with anything?

No one talks about the CHL being a tier below the AHL when discussing guys (and we shouldn't). Him excelling in the Allsvenskan like few other guys his age have done is what should be looked at. Those that have comparable seasons to him (there are very few) have become very good players in the NHL.
His play in the WJ's was great.

 

[HSF]

What's your point? He was 18. Of course he was playing in your junior league. Sam Steel had a fantastic year in the W as well. Would you discount that by saying it is a tier below the NHL?

Which is also tougher than the CHL. We've been over this dude.

Tougher? It depends on what your talking about. In terms of the age of players your playing against? Sure. In terms of length of season, physicality and rink size to become an NHL player its the CHL.

Also Sam Steel is a poor comparison when he was the WHL MVP and Dahlen might not even be the best player on his team

 

[Benjamin]

Thats a pretty big part of it though. If they say yes they think he has top line potential like many are acting like here then I doubt Dorion makes the deal. Lets not forget Dorion has an amateur scouting background he knows the drill

GMs make dumb decision all the time.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

My concern with him is that he may be one of those guys that looks great against lower competition, but his size won't allow him to translate that at the NHL level; not trying to compare players here, but in the same way as Corey locke looked fantastic at the AHL level, but just wasn't an NHL level player because he didn't have the size or wheels to translate his other skills when the competition got bigger and faster.

My viewings are limited, but I don't see the skill set needed to overcome average skating to slightly above average skating, and his small stature. His hockey sense seems very good though, so that could be the x factor that allows him to thrive at any level. Hope he does, I liked him while a Sen, but I view him as I would any late first (even though he was a mid second), a nice prospect with a shot, but probably a 50% chance at best of really making it.

I don't consider him that small. 5 11 176 . I would consider Locke small. 5 9 165 both from eliteprospects.com.

Locke was such a star for the 67's I thought he'd make it. 151 pts in his Draft year. Matt Foy had 132 pts ; he had 40 in 50 and 50 in 62 in the AHL , was 6'2 225 and never made it. So many prospects don't make it. Projecting them as future stars is really hard other than the cream at the top. If Locke put those numbers up this year in his draft year he'd likely go top 10

 

[HSF]

GMs make dumb decision all the time.

and so do scouts and fans? what's your point ?

 

[JungleBeat]

Tougher? It depends on what your talking about. In terms of the age of players your playing against? Sure. In terms of length of season, physicality and rink size to become an NHL player its the CHL.

Also Sam Steel is a poor comparison when he was the WHL MVP and Dahlen might not even be the best player on his team

Doesn't matter. He did amazing this past season. He was an absolute beast playing in a pro league.

Dorion overpaid and we'll see what Burrows has to offer next season. With his aging body and injuries he's going to most likely regress and that doesn't bold well since he's already a slow bottom sixer.

 

[Benjamin]

and so do scouts and fans? what's your point ?

Dorion is a rookie GM. He may have made that trade while still being very high on Dahlen.

 

[HSF]

Dorion is a rookie GM. He may have made that trade while still being very high on Dahlen.

Dorion is also a GM of the year finalist. He also doesn't trade away guys he is high on. If we want to speculate it makes more sense that Dorion wouldn't trade away guys who he scouted and drafted if he still believed they had high end potential.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Dorion is also a GM of the year finalist. He also doesn't trade away guys he is high on. If we want to speculate it makes more sense that Dorion wouldn't trade away guys who he scouted and drafted if he still believed they had high end potential.

Dorion would trade anyone where he thought he could improve the team no matter how much he believed in who he was trading.

 

[Benjamin]

Dorion is also a GM of the year finalist. He also doesn't trade away guys he is high on. .

GM of the year award is worthless. For the same reason the Jack Adams is worthless. It just goes to Cinderella teams. Nothing to do with ability.

If we want to speculate it makes more sense that Dorion wouldn't trade away guys who he scouted and drafted if he still believed they had high end potential

I get what you're saying but the history of GM's actions would say this is incorrect.

 

[HSF]

Dorion would trade anyone where he thought he could improve the team no matter how much he believed in who he was trading.

disagree he has come out a few times during the deadline saying teams want Chabot and white for him to improve the team right now but he believes in their potential

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

disagree he has come out a few times during the deadline saying teams want Chabot and white for him to improve the team right now but he believes in their potential

If he could get Matthews, Laine, McDavid .. any one of them.. you think he would not trade Chabot and/or White.. ok I see... let's forget I chimed in at all.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Dahlen appears to be out-shining top 5 picks like Juolevi and Pettersson at development camp.

And Dorion gave him up for a 36YR old Burrows

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Doesn't matter. He did amazing this past season. He was an absolute beast playing in a pro league.

Dorion overpaid and we'll see what Burrows has to offer next season. With his aging body and injuries he's going to most likely regress and that doesn't bold well since he's already a slow bottom sixer.

Pump one up, dump irrationally on the other...

Dahlen is just a 2nd rounder that will surely bust like the overwhelming majority do. At least we got a clutch 2nd/3rd liner with great leadership qualities, pk ability, and the willingness to go to the dirty areas. He is old but he's not certainly not slow.

 

[BondraTime]

Pump one up, dump irrationally on the other...

Dahlen is just a 2nd rounder that will surely bust like the overwhelming majority do. At least we got a clutch 2nd/3rd liner with great leadership qualities, pk ability, and the willingness to go to the dirty areas. He is old but he's not certainly not slow.

This bit takes the cake

 

[JungleBeat]

Pump one up, dump irrationally on the other...

Dahlen is just a 2nd rounder that will surely bust like the overwhelming majority do. At least we got a clutch 2nd/3rd liner with great leadership qualities, pk ability, and the willingness to go to the dirty areas. He is old but he's not certainly not slow.

Burrows isn't a second liner. That should be clear.

 

[Tuna99]

How about we credit Dorion for drafting Dahlen in the first place so he had an asset he could make a trade with for an impact playoff player. If he took probably any player drafted after Dahlen in that 2nd round he doesn't have an asset to make a deadline move.

This trade argument is the stupidest thing ever. WE complain we aren't in the playoffs, we make the playoffs and add a playoff warrior at the deadline, in the EK window to win, and the fans are worried about Dahlen who won't contribute at an NHL level until 2020.

In 2020 I could be dead, so could you.

 

[Hale The Villain]

God the lengths people will go to defend the team and the management group that is burning it to the ground.

We shouldn't have given up anymore than a 7th for Burrows. A comparable player in Stafford (who's 5 years younger) went for a 6th, and he didn't have a NTC that limited his destinations. Hell if we had gotten Burrows for future considerations I'd still be mad about adding him if we signed him to a deal worth 2.5M a year until he's 38.

It was a mind-numbingly stupid move that cannot rationally be defended by anyone.

 

[JD1]

Bowers (28th) or Dahlen (42nd).

I take Dahlen 10/10 times, but c'est la vie.

And yes, I did watch quite a bit of Dahlen and Pettersson's games this year.

I consider Brown a high 1st as well (11th vs 12th), not sure semantics makes any difference regardless.

Development camp means very, very little, but Dahlen has (according to Nucks fans, not me) looked better than Boeser, Pettersson and Juolevi.

I am not ready to attribute Dahlen's immense success from Dec 2015-July 2017 to Pettersson, especially considering Dahlen went over ppg from Dec 2015-April 2016 without him the year he was drafted.

We aren't going to agree, I'm not going to convince you of anything, and likewise with yourself. Things will play out how they will, and I'll be ready to eat crow if need be, though I really don't expect too.

there is so much hyperbole related to Dahlen....it just feeds itself....I will take you at your word that you watched a lot of his games in Sweden. So, then please enlightening me....here are Dahlen's stats in his draft year

2015-16 Timra IK Swe-1 51 15 14 29

if he went over PPG from Dec 2015 to April 2016 but only posted 29 points in 51 games and assuming their season runs roughly the same as ours...then he pretty much had to go damn near 0 for however many games played prior to Dec 2015. What changed? 29 points in 51 games in his draft year versus pettersson's near PPG in his draft year....not hard to understand why one went 5th overall and the other was a mid 2nd rounder

I noted the hyperbole feeding itself and it partially gets fed on fake news ...how many times did I read "close in age to the #5 overall" when they are 11 months apart (unless hockeydb has their birthdate wrong?)

you say

I am not ready to attribute Dahlen's immense success from Dec 2015-July 2017 to Pettersson, especially considering Dahlen went over ppg from Dec 2015-April 2016 without him the year he was drafted.

others chime in

His preceived value went up because of his outstanding season in Timra.

Doesn't matter. He did amazing this past season. He was an absolute beast playing in a pro league.

he gets called a high 2nd rounder and then it becomes just commonly repeated

Why else would you draft a skill player in the early 2nd round?

he wasn't drafted early in the second round....he was drafted in the middle of it...and it isn't semantics....it feeds perception....perception matters.

close in age = fake news
ppg in draft year = I know that is not exactly what you wrote but that is what will be remembered = ppg in draft year is not close to accurate
early / high 2nd rounder = fake news = mid second rounder

immense success = absolute beast = outstanding season yet in the eyes of our management his stock went down and he was our 8th or 9th best prospect

I toured thru the Canucks board ....currently he is the lead contender on their board for 5th best prospect and no he's not ahead of Boeser and Pettersson....is it that hard to believe that with our stronger prospect pool that he'd be our 8th or 9th best prospect and their 5th? I read their board and its full of whining about how poorly they've done with their drafting

he's a polarizing player on this board....and we've got a board full of negative nelly types....a lot of the stuff written on dahlen and re-posted over and over and over is fake news....it just isn't accurate...it feeds perception....personally I could care less other than I dislike people crapping on mgmt. based on fake news they read on the internet

 

[JD1]

God the lengths people will go to defend the team and the management group that is burning it to the ground.

We shouldn't have given up anymore than a 7th for Burrows. A comparable player in Stafford (who's 5 years younger) went for a 6th, and he didn't have a NTC that limited his destinations. Hell if we had gotten Burrows for future considerations I'd still be mad about adding him if we signed him to a deal worth 2.5M a year until he's 38.

It was a mind-numbingly stupid move that cannot rationally be defended by anyone.

still raining huh?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Burrows isn't a second liner. That should be clear.

I don't actually think that's where he belongs but based on our forward group I wouldn't argue with it. He's pretty much deadlocked with this group below for the 2nd tier in points behind Turris, Stone & Hoffman.

Burrows - 15 goals, 31 points
Smith - 16 goals, 32 points
Pageau - 12 goals, 33 points
Ryan - 13 goals, 25 points
Brassard - 14 goals, 39 points
Dzingel 14 goals, 32 points

Everyone is writing him off because he's older and they assume he's going to regress and suck, not because he's actually shown it yet. Maybe I'm taking crazy pills but I thought he was great for us after coming in and I'm happy to have him.