The Josh Anderson Thread

[Viqsi]

Considering the CBJ gave up a 2017 1st, a 2019 2nd and Karlsson to get rid of Clarkson and protect Anderson, I think $150,000 is a dumb hill to die for Jarmo.

I dunno; I'd be kind of annoyed if someone took that as endorsement to say "screw you and your franchise plans, I want MAD LOOT YO NAO"

And it's not as though Anderson was the only guy being protected with that maneuver.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

The way I think of the expansion draft trade is that the 1st was packaged with Clarkson to take that salary off of our payroll, and the second round pick was to protect ALL of Johnson, Korpisalo and Anderson. The islanders did the same to unload one of their hefty LTIR contracts. We didn't give up a first simply to protect Anderson...that's not even an argument to be made.

This situation is going to be resolved in one of two ways. Either Anderson will be traded to Colorado in a deal for Duchene, or he will sign exactly what he is being offered now by management. His agent is a hack and has literally zero leverage.

 

[MoeBartoli]

In what world? Thats a severe overpayment by us...

If it comes down to not having him on your roster, then I'm not sure it's an overpayment. Basically it's Murray and a non-playing asset for Duchene.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

I dunno; I'd be kind of annoyed if someone took that as endorsement to say "screw you and your franchise plans, I want MAD LOOT YO NAO"

And it's not as though Anderson was the only guy being protected with that maneuver.

Sure he wasn't the only one, but I don't think it is inaccurate to say he was the primary person being protected.

As for the money, I don't consider an extra $150k "MAD LOOT YO" in the grand scheme of contracts and payrolls and I find it hard to believe that $150k a year is going to be a back breaker for CBJ finances three years down the road. Didn't we all just agree that Jarmo got stellar cheaper-than-expected deals for Jones and Wennberg? So Anderson gets a little more than expected? Emphasis on little ($150k = 0.2 percent of the current cap).

If the reported gap (assuming if true) were wider, I might feel different. This difference is a piddly sum in my mind though.

 

[CBJfan4evr]

I think I posted this somewhere before the format change... Without reiterating that entire post --- Are we sure that they are $150k apart on a 3-yr deal? If its $150K difference over the same term, then IMO this deal gets done, and all will move on as if nothing happened. The trade request hasn't even been confirmed.

However, my understanding was that Anderson is insisting on a 2-yr deal at $150k more AAV ($2.05M) than JK is offering on a 3-yr deal. I'm not sure there is confirmation of that. Does anybody have anything on that side of the coin? On the flip side, it has seemed relatively clear that JK's position has been 1 yr QO, or 3-yr at something around $1.9M AAV. 2-yr deal has been a non-starter for JK.

Without reiterating the whys for 2-yr vs 3-yr term, if the parties' primary difference remains length of term then the continuation of the holdout (by both sides) at least has a more rationale explanation. I still want the deal done, and CBJ has the leverage, but at least there would be a rationale explanation, because a $150K gap has a relatively easy Solomon solution in which both sides win.

I thought the third year he was arbitration eligible? If that was case his camp likely thinks he can demand much more than 1.9m for that year this would effectively make the gap significantly larger than 150k a year? Does anybody know if this is true?

 

[Samkow]

Considering the CBJ gave up a 2017 1st, a 2019 2nd and Karlsson to get rid of Clarkson and protect Anderson, I think $150,000 is a dumb hill to die for Jarmo.

Not to mention that they've obviously pissed him off which will probably eliminate any sort of "hometown discount" in the future.

 

[Crede777]

Not to mention that they've obviously pissed him off which will probably eliminate any sort of "hometown discount" in the future.

I think that's the biggest drawback to nickel and diming players during their ELC.

 

[Jackets16]

I think that's the biggest drawback to nickel and diming players during their ELC.

I doubt he would ever sign a contract like that based on the way he (his agent) has handled the negotiations for this contract.

 

[Jackets16]

Sure he wasn't the only one, but I don't think it is inaccurate to say he was the primary person being protected.

As for the money, I don't consider an extra $150k "MAD LOOT YO" in the grand scheme of contracts and payrolls and I find it hard to believe that $150k a year is going to be a back breaker for CBJ finances three years down the road. Didn't we all just agree that Jarmo got stellar cheaper-than-expected deals for Jones and Wennberg? So Anderson gets a little more than expected? Emphasis on little ($150k = 0.2 percent of the current cap).

If the reported gap (assuming if true) were wider, I might feel different. This difference is a piddly sum in my mind though.

It isn't about just give him an extra $150,000 though. If you give it to him, then the next guy who wants a contract will do the same thing. And so forth. When dealing with contracts, players try to set a precedent and GM's try not to. You just can't give in if you don't believe the contract is good. That is how so many teams got stuck with players who had no trade clauses. They were like, oh, its not that big of a deal and we need to sign him. Then, the next player asked for one. And the next player.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

There are worthwhile battles to fight. This is not one of them. The Front Office is waging a real silly one here.

Sign him. $150,000 is 1/5 of 1% of the cap. It's not principle on the part of the front office; it's a combination of obstinacy and stupidity. The kid had SEVENTEEN EVEN STRENGTH GOALS last season. Atkinson only had 22 and Saad had 21. No one else had as many as Anderson-in 12:03 TOI per game.

Anderson, Gagner and Hartnell accounted for 48 out of the 249 goals of the CBJ last season-20%. Bjorkstrand and Milano are going to have to really deliver to make up for the potential loss of Anderson. It's a risk that only a fool would take for 1/5 of 1% of the cap.

 

[Monk]

Seems that the FO has a lesser opinion of Anderson than many here.

It's especially ridiculous given how he's consistently scored 17 even strength goals in every single nhl season he's played.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Seems that the FO has a lesser opinion of Anderson than many here.

Such a lesser opinion that they spent a 2017 first, 2018 2nd, and won't include him in a deal for Matt Duchene (according to insiders) to keep him.

Yes, I am aware they did that deal to keep more than Anderson.

 

[Monk]

Such a lesser opinion that they spent a 2017 first, 2018 2nd, and won't include him in a deal for Matt Duchene (according to insiders) to keep him.

Yes, I am aware they did that deal to keep more than Anderson.

So it's sort of a moot point then, without knowing what the price would have been to just keep Anderson. Not to mention the massive addition by subtraction in there. But this has all been said already. 'round we go.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

I know others on here have negotiated multi-million dollar contracts. We tend to look at this as a simple transaction, $X million times Y years, yet there is a lot of nuance to this type of deal. I don't know the agent's ask, nor the Jackets' offer. While the total package over two or three years may be ~ 150k apart annually, what if the all of the difference is in the third year? That makes the starting point on the next agreement $500k higher. What if the Jackets are offering an agreement that is flat? Perhaps the Anderson camp feels his value down the road will be such that giving up one year of arbitration rights is worth a lot of money?

The details of the offers may never be publicly known.

 

[Tony Quinn]

Why is everybody blaming the agent? He's just doing his job. Blame Anderson. He could say take the deal at any time. The agent works for him.

 

[MAHJ71]

Anderson, Gagner and Hartnell accounted for 48 out of the 249 goals of the CBJ last season-20%. Bjorkstrand and Milano are going to have to really deliver to make up for the potential loss of Anderson. It's a risk that only a fool would take for 1/5 of 1% of the cap.

Cannot forget about PLD who could pot more than Bjork & Milano but, I see where you're going with it..

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

It isn't about just give him an extra $150,000 though. If you give it to him, then the next guy who wants a contract will do the same thing. And so forth. When dealing with contracts, players try to set a precedent and GM's try not to. You just can't give in if you don't believe the contract is good. That is how so many teams got stuck with players who had no trade clauses. They were like, oh, its not that big of a deal and we need to sign him. Then, the next player asked for one. And the next player.

Obviously both sides are valuing Anderson differently. But I wonder how that 150k is relative to underpay/fair/overpay. Is Anderson seeking an overpayment or something fair? Is Jarmo proposing something fair or is he lowballing Anderson? I tend to think it is the latter. Jarmo has the leverage and the contracts for young guys thus far seem to be coming in under market (at least as much as we armchair capologists and GMs guess at value), so why would we expect a fair market offer for Anderson?

I think "setting precedent" is a bit of a boogie man here. Is it conceivable that there are players in the locker room thinking, "WTF? They won't give Andy another $150k a year? They're being that cheap?" I think that would be my mindset, personally. Boom, you just set another precedent. And when my negotiations came up, I'd be inclined to stand firm and push for more too. As long as we're speculating about things in the future, is this not possible? I think it is.

I don't think you can treat every negotiation the same because every player and every situation and every team isn't the same. At the end of the day, we're talking about $150k here. That is nothing. Maybe try to compromise at $75k or $100k? The point is we're not talking millions of dollars here. Agents are going to try to leverage you every time regardless of your past behaviors.

I even already have the line for Jarmo to use in the future:
Agent: Well, you caved on Anderson's contract!
Jarmo: Yeah, it was a $150,000 gap, you're asking for (insert ridiculous hypothetical overpayment figure here). $150,000 does not equal (insert ridiculous hypothetical overpayment figure here). If you want $150,000, here is $150,000.

(for the record if every player on the team got $150k extra that adds $3.45 million to the budget).

The downside of this hardlining (losing Anderson outright or having him start the season slow or stunted or disgruntled) just doesn't equate to $150k in annual savings in my mind.

I think Jarmo is doing a great job overall. But, as I said in my initial post, $150k is a really, really petty, tiny, piddly little hill on which to make your stand.

 

[Monk]

Obviously both sides are valuing Anderson differently. But I wonder how that 150k is relative to underpay/fair/overpay. Is Anderson seeking an overpayment or something fair? Is Jarmo proposing something fair or is he lowballing Anderson? I tend to think it is the latter. Jarmo has the leverage and the contracts for young guys thus far seem to be coming in under market (at least as much as we armchair capologists and GMs guess at value), so why would we expect a fair market offer for Anderson?

I think "setting precedent" is a bit of a boogie man here. Is it conceivable that there are players in the locker room thinking, "WTF? They won't give Andy another $150k a year? They're being that cheap?" I think that would be my mindset, personally. Boom, you just set another precedent. And when my negotiations came up, I'd be inclined to stand firm and push for more too. As long as we're speculating about things in the future, is this not possible? I think it is.

I don't think you can treat every negotiation the same because every player and every situation and every team isn't the same. At the end of the day, we're talking about $150k here. That is nothing. Maybe try to compromise at $75k or $100k? The point is we're not talking millions of dollars here. Agents are going to try to leverage you every time regardless of your past behaviors.

I even already have the line for Jarmo to use in the future:
Agent: Well, you caved on Anderson's contract!
Jarmo: Yeah, it was a $150,000 gap, you're asking for (insert ridiculous hypothetical overpayment figure here). $150,000 does not equal (insert ridiculous hypothetical overpayment figure here). If you want $150,000, here is $150,000.

(for the record if every player on the team got $150k extra that adds $3.45 million to the budget).

The downside of this hardlining (losing Anderson outright or having him start the season slow or stunted or disgruntled) just doesn't equate to $150k in annual savings in my mind.

I think Jarmo is doing a great job overall. But, as I said in my initial post, $150k is a really, really petty, tiny, piddly little hill on which to make your stand.

I suspect Jarmo knows all of this plenty well and he's doing what he's doing with sound, calculated reasoning to support it. We collectively know absolutely nothing for sure about this process. For that reason, I'm cool wit' it.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

I suspect Jarmo knows all of this plenty well and he's doing what he's doing with sound, calculated reasoning to support it. We collectively know absolutely nothing for sure about this process. For that reason, I'm cool wit' it.

Possible.

He could also be used to getting his way and be blinded by that pride.

I agree we don't really know much, if anything. But if that were a qualification for posting, this would be a pretty quiet place.

 

[squarelaces]

The problem I have is that signing or not, Anderson has not reported. That would accomplish many things:

He would there busting his a$$ along side the teammates he purportedly loves
He would be getting in the best possible shape to play (with us or elsewhere)
He would send a message to the coach and the front office that he wants to work something out

If it's the right thing to do for Duchene it should the same for Anderson

 

[Monk]

The problem I have is that signing or not, Anderson has not reported. That would accomplish many things:

He would there busting his a$$ along side the teammates he purportedly loves
He would be getting in the best possible shape to play (with us or elsewhere)
He would send a message to the coach and the front office that he wants to work something out

If it's the right thing to do for Duchene it should the same for Anderson

Well, Duchene has a contract.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

The problem I have is that signing or not, Anderson has not reported. That would accomplish many things:

He would there busting his a$$ along side the teammates he purportedly loves
He would be getting in the best possible shape to play (with us or elsewhere)
He would send a message to the coach and the front office that he wants to work something out

If it's the right thing to do for Duchene it should the same for Anderson

That was a right-pretty speech, sir. But I ask you, what is a contract? Webster's defines it as "an agreement under the law, which is unbreakable." Which is unbreakable! Excuse me, I must use the restroom.

 

[db2011]

I am having trouble putting my finger on why, but I tend to come down on the side of the Team or ownership on many of these matters. I can speculate several reason... perhaps I am very subtlety bitter about what these guys make as compared to what I make, perhaps since the players are constantly moving and changing the only thing I have any real attachment to is the uniform and arena and thus ownership, perhaps it is the fact that people refer to this job as a game which seems to diminished ever so slightly what they do. Whatever the reason, we the fans suffer for the problems on either side. I suppose I would have to be truly faced with the decision to answer the question "How can you turn down that contract offer over so little money?" But armchair QB I am I personally would have to take the offer, so I suppose that's the real root of why I come down with the ownership.

that's how they get you.

If you think the players make a lot, you should see what the owners make!

 

[db2011]

I suspect Jarmo knows all of this plenty well and he's doing what he's doing with sound, calculated reasoning to support it. We collectively know absolutely nothing for sure about this process. For that reason, I'm cool wit' it.

Why would you think that, necessarily? That's giving a lot of credit to the guy who didn't insure Horton, for instance.

He's doing a good/great job overall, but my impression is that he's a low-baller.

 

[The Jones Zone]

I'll predict He signs Monday

10-2