The Great Dale Weise Debate (& other ex-Hawks) volume 3

[Blackhawkswincup]

Pirri is back in NHL with Vegas to finish out year

3 goals in 2 games

1 less then Tatar who has played in 19 games for Vegas. Man that Tatar deal has been brutal thus far for Vegas

 

[Pez68]

Even if Saad was a 55pt player this year, everyone would still be laughing at us.

Most people expected a regression of some sort to Panarin, as he does not have a Kane to play with. (it's not a knock on his skill, it's just expected when you stop playing with one of the best RW's in the game..)

However, not only did he improve his point totals he also became the MVP of the team, set a franchise record for points in a season, manage to be in Torts good book, became a two-way player, and dragged along a 19 year old rookie C and a revolving cast of subpar RWs (Foligno, Anderson, Atkinson).

Panarin has 82pts, second highest forward has 48 points!

I hope Panarin helps the Jackets knock off the Pens in the first round.

If Saad doesn't figure it out, this will go down as one of the worst trades in the last decade. Right up there with the Seguin trade.

 

[ClydeLee]

Pirri is back in NHL with Vegas to finish out year

3 goals in 2 games

1 less then Tatar who has played in 19 games for Vegas. Man that Tatar deal has been brutal thus far for Vegas

He was already sent back down today. Not really to finish out the year but a couple injuries.

 

[Rolo]

If Saad doesn't figure it out, this will go down as one of the worst trades in the last decade. Right up there with the Seguin trade.

And the Hall trade, yes.

 

[Pez68]

And the Hall trade, yes.

Yep. I think most of us knew Panarin was an elite talent. I'm not sure any of us pegged him as "the guy" or a franchise player, though there was certainly the possibility.... Would have been nice to see him NOT play with Kane. Probably would have made it quite clear he was, by himself, a legitimate superstar.

 

[Rolo]

Yep. I think most of us knew Panarin was an elite talent. I'm not sure any of us pegged him as "the guy" or a franchise player, though there was certainly the possibility.... Would have been nice to see him NOT play with Kane. Probably would have made it quite clear he was, by himself, a legitimate superstar.

Debrincat-Toews-_____
_____-Schmaltz-Kane
Panarin-Anisimov-____

Hino, Hayden, Hartmen, Duclair/Panik, Sikura to fill in the gaps...

 

[Blackhawks]

Even if Saad was a 55pt player this year, everyone would still be laughing at us.

Most people expected a regression of some sort to Panarin, as he does not have a Kane to play with. (it's not a knock on his skill, it's just expected when you stop playing with one of the best RW's in the game..)

However, not only did he improve his point totals he also became the MVP of the team, set a franchise record for points in a season, manage to be in Torts good book, became a two-way player, and dragged along a 19 year old rookie C and a revolving cast of subpar RWs (Foligno, Anderson, Atkinson).

Panarin has 82pts, second highest forward has 48 points!

I hope Panarin helps the Jackets knock off the Pens in the first round.

That was a pathetic trade since day 1, I was laughing at Stan for getting hosed down, majority in that thread liked the trade though, the experts agreed with papa expert Stan!

 

[Rolo]

Artemi Panarin - 81gp - 27g/55a/82pts +23
Teuvo Teravainen - 82gp - 23g/41a/64pts +8
Nick Leddy - 80gp - 10g/32a/42pts -42
Philip Danault - 52gp - 8g/17a/25pts +0
Andrew Shaw - 51gp - 10g/10a/20pts -8
Richard Panik - 35gp - 8g/11a/19pts +4
Trevor van Riemsdyk - 79gp - 3g/13a/16pts +9
Stephen Johns - 75gp - 8g/7a/15pts +10
Niklas Hjalmarsson - 48gp - 1g/8a/9pts -3
Tyler Motte - 46gp - 5g/2a/7pts -4
Joakim Nordstrom - 75gp - 2g/5a/7pts -11
Ryan Hartman - 21gp - 3g/3a/6pts -4
Marcus Kruger - 48gp - 1g/5a/6pts -6 *cleared waivers*
Tommy Wingels - 17gp - 2g/3a/5pts +1
Klas Dahlbeck - 33gp - 1g/4a/5pts -6
Michal Kempny - 22gp - 2g/1a/3pts +1
Brandon Pirri - 2gp - 3g/3pts +3

Antti Raanta - 47gp - 21W/17L/6OTL 2.24 GAA .930 sv%
Scott Darling - 43gp - 13W/21L/7OTL 3.18 GAA .888 sv%

Not going to bother guys monitoring guys like Ladd, Niemi, Brouwer, Versteeg, Byfuglien, Frolik etc..

Thoughts:
Panarin and Teuvo putting up tons of points.
Leddy -42… ouch
Raanta putting up those numbers in Arizona is insane. He’s a legit #1
Darling as we all know, horrible season.
Shaw, Hartman, Kruger, Motte, Hjalmarsson - not doing too great.
Pirri potted a couple goals in his late season call up.
Panik has better numbers in ARZ, than in CHI.

 

[Rolo]

Now I've posted this before probably, but just for fun - the Hawks cast-off roster...

Panarin-K.Hayes-Teravainen
Ladd-Shaw-Hartman
Versteeg-Danault-Panik
Wingels-Kruger-Frolik
Brouwer

Hjalmarsson-Byfuglien
Leddy-Johns
Kempny-van Riemsdyk
Daley

Raanta
Darling

Line 1 - We've seen with Panarin and Teuvo can do this yar.
Line 2 - Biggest sht disturber/in your face line.
Line 3 - Nothing much to say here..
Line 4- Kruger and Frolik re-united!

Pair 1 - This would be a excellent pairing when both are on their game.
Pair 2 - Another good pairing, puck mover and big stay at home dman.
Pair 3 - A good puck moving pairing, but would get out muscled.

anddd Raanta can steal games on his own.

 

[Blackhawks]

Why do people keep saying Hammer is not doing too great, he’s on a team that is -48 goal differential lmao and he is only a -3, Murphy is -2 on a team that is -20, Hammer also has a higher ppg. I would take hammer any day of the week and his contract is almost done while we are stuck with a “prominsing” young pylon for 4 more years at an inflated cap...

 

[Rolo]

Why do people keep saying Hammer is not doing too great, he’s on a team that is -48 goal differential lmao and he is only a -3, Murphy is -2 on a team that is -20, Hammer also has a higher ppg. I would take hammer any day of the week and his contract is almost done while we are stuck with a “prominsing” young pylon for 4 more years at an inflated cap...

He isn't playing like the peak Hammer we know.. the eye test proves that, and OEL, Demers and Goligoski are receiving more minutes.. However yes, Murphy can't hold a candle to Hammer even at his current state.

I hope Hammer walks in 2019/2020 and comes back to Chi town as a bottom pair guy, and we move Murphy eventually when one of Mitchell/Krys/Snuggy and Jokiharju are ready + 2018 draft pick.

Keith-Jokiharju
Forsling-Dobson
Hjalmarsson-Mitchell
Seabrook

 

[EmeticDonut]

Hawks gave up on Raanta too quickly. Would have been a prime candidate to take over if Crawford is unable to come back. Hoped he might have gotten to FA, but Phoenix saw what they had and signed him to a good deal.

 

[BK]

He isn't playing like the peak Hammer we know.. the eye test proves that, and OEL, Demers and Goligoski are receiving more minutes.. However yes, Murphy can't hold a candle to Hammer even at his current state.

I hope Hammer walks in 2019/2020 and comes back to Chi town as a bottom pair guy, and we move Murphy eventually when one of Mitchell/Krys/Snuggy and Jokiharju are ready + 2018 draft pick.

Keith-Jokiharju
Forsling-Dobson
Hjalmarsson-Mitchell
Seabrook

Have you watched Hammer this season? Murphy has been far better than Hammer. Eye test proves this.

Hahaha at using +/-. Hammer played 48 game and had much worse possession numbers in comparison to Murphy. Murphy also had to carry Seabrook for much of the season. The best part of our genius resident highlight watcher is that Murphy had better numbers with much worse in comparison to Hammer.

 

[TLEH]

Former Blackhawk and Ice Hog Lars Johansson with some huge saves to knock SKA out of the playoffs and advance to the Gagarin Cup finals.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Now I've posted this before probably, but just for fun - the Hawks cast-off roster...

Panarin-K.Hayes-Teravainen
Ladd-Shaw-Hartman
Versteeg-Danault-Panik
Wingels-Kruger-Frolik
Brouwer

Hjalmarsson-Byfuglien
Leddy-Johns
Kempny-van Riemsdyk
Daley

Raanta
Darling

Line 1 - We've seen with Panarin and Teuvo can do this yar.
Line 2 - Biggest sht disturber/in your face line.
Line 3 - Nothing much to say here..
Line 4- Kruger and Frolik re-united!

Pair 1 - This would be a excellent pairing when both are on their game.
Pair 2 - Another good pairing, puck mover and big stay at home dman.
Pair 3 - A good puck moving pairing, but would get out muscled.

anddd Raanta can steal games on his own.

Hutton would be best option for #2 on that team with Anderson better option as #3 then Darling

 

[LordKOTL]

He isn't playing like the peak Hammer we know.. the eye test proves that, and OEL, Demers and Goligoski are receiving more minutes.. However yes, Murphy can't hold a candle to Hammer even at his current state.

I hope Hammer walks in 2019/2020 and comes back to Chi town as a bottom pair guy, and we move Murphy eventually when one of Mitchell/Krys/Snuggy and Jokiharju are ready + 2018 draft pick.

Keith-Jokiharju
Forsling-Dobson
Hjalmarsson-Mitchell
Seabrook

Keith+Jokiharju would be like Keith+Leddy--which was a medical-waste-dumpster-fire-on-wheels. Their games are too similar and they wouldn't compliment each other. Since The Joker can *actually* hit a 4x6 from the point, you'd have to tell Keith to stop all O aspects of his game and leve it to those who can and focus on playing defense.

The Hjammer of old would be a great compliment to him.

 

[BK]

Keith+Jokiharju would be like Keith+Leddy--which was a medical-waste-dumpster-fire-on-wheels. Their games are too similar and they wouldn't compliment each other. Since The Joker can *actually* hit a 4x6 from the point, you'd have to tell Keith to stop all O aspects of his game and leve it to those who can and focus on playing defense.

The Hjammer of old would be a great compliment to him.

HJ is much better defensively than Leddy, just and an FYI.

 

[LordKOTL]

HJ is much better defensively than Leddy, just and an FYI.

Considering that I regularly see The Joker live and in person and have been watching him develop in PDX, I know that.

The Joker has the potential to be what Leddy should have been. Solid enough in the back end, but can carry the mail into the zone, and can hit a 4x6 from the blueline. O-focused but not a defensive liability. I think if you have Keith and The Joker on the same pairing, it would be 2 guys trying to do the same thing like with Keith and Leddy played and that might hurt the team. IMHO the ideal pairing for Jokiharju would be a lefty Seabrook circa 2013 or a prime Hjalmarsson--someone who would be a bit more D-focused.

 

[BK]

Considering that I regularly see The Joker live and in person and have been watching him develop in PDX, I know that.

The Joker has the potential to be what Leddy should have been. Solid enough in the back end, but can carry the mail into the zone, and can hit a 4x6 from the blueline. O-focused but not a defensive liability. I think if you have Keith and The Joker on the same pairing, it would be 2 guys trying to do the same thing like with Keith and Leddy played and that might hurt the team. IMHO the ideal pairing for Jokiharju would be a lefty Seabrook circa 2013 or a prime Hjalmarsson--someone who would be a bit more D-focused.

I misintepreted what you said to a point then. I think HJ and Keith could work because HJ has a more "fire" than Leddy. If you want him with a more physical D then Murphy might be your choice as he can play both sides.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Considering that I regularly see The Joker live and in person and have been watching him develop in PDX, I know that.

The Joker has the potential to be what Leddy should have been. Solid enough in the back end, but can carry the mail into the zone, and can hit a 4x6 from the blueline. O-focused but not a defensive liability. I think if you have Keith and The Joker on the same pairing, it would be 2 guys trying to do the same thing like with Keith and Leddy played and that might hurt the team. IMHO the ideal pairing for Jokiharju would be a lefty Seabrook circa 2013 or a prime Hjalmarsson--someone who would be a bit more D-focused.

Thinking HJ and Murphy next season.

 

[AmericanDream]

Thinking HJ and Murphy next season.

at this point I have to imagine HJU is a Hawk next year - outside of us bringing in 2 UFA's at defense which I doubt, he seems like the most logical choice to give a shot right out the gate. I think he is ready for the challenge and would like to see the same with Snuggy.

I wouldn't mind this for next year -

Keith - Jokiharju
John Moore - Murphy
Snuggerud - Seabrook
Hillman - Rutta

EDIT- SHIT, I FORGOT FORSLING LOL!!

Not too bad, balanced and hopefully the kids step up and TAKE those roles

 

[Rolo]

Keith+Jokiharju would be like Keith+Leddy--which was a medical-waste-dumpster-fire-on-wheels. Their games are too similar and they wouldn't compliment each other. Since The Joker can *actually* hit a 4x6 from the point, you'd have to tell Keith to stop all O aspects of his game and leve it to those who can and focus on playing defense.

The Hjammer of old would be a great compliment to him.

Honestly, Keith needs to just be a steady defensive d-man at this point. Gus, Forsling, Jokiharju and even Seabrook are better offensive options.

 

[LordKOTL]

I misintepreted what you said to a point then. I think HJ and Keith could work because HJ has a more "fire" than Leddy. If you want him with a more physical D then Murphy might be your choice as he can play both sides.

I do agree Murph might work not so much for the physicality but I think he can adopt the role of a stay-at-home guy better than Keith can. Keith seems to be an O-1st kind of player that used his speed and skill to get back defensively and make the play. Now that he's older and slower his O game is severely lacking and him being run roughshod also has impacted his D decision making.

I think Keith and the Joker would do better separately with partners that compliment their game, rather than players that play a very similar game.

Honestly, Keith needs to just be a steady defensive d-man at this point. Gus, Forsling, Jokiharju and even Seabrook are better offensive options.

In theory I agree. In practice...can Keith change up his game *that* much? He was still trying his same double-clutch instead of a one-timer for the past 3 years on the point with the same amount of success as Wile E. Coyote's traps for the Roadrunner. IMHO Keith seems to be a creature of habit and putting him with The Joker might result in 2 guys trying to do the same thing instead of Keith deferring O to someone who can do it much better than him at this point.

I think, like I aforementioned, you separate them. Keith needs his icetime cut but until Joker proves otherwise, you keep Keith for the deadliest of matchups and off the powerplay! If/As Joker grows into that role you start transition Keith off the heaviest assignments.

 

[Rolo]

I do agree Murph might work not so much for the physicality but I think he can adopt the role of a stay-at-home guy better than Keith can. Keith seems to be an O-1st kind of player that used his speed and skill to get back defensively and make the play. Now that he's older and slower his O game is severely lacking and him being run roughshod also has impacted his D decision making.

I think Keith and the Joker would do better separately with partners that compliment their game, rather than players that play a very similar game.


In theory I agree. In practice...can Keith change up his game *that* much? He was still trying his same double-clutch instead of a one-timer for the past 3 years on the point with the same amount of success as Wile E. Coyote's traps for the Roadrunner. IMHO Keith seems to be a creature of habit and putting him with The Joker might result in 2 guys trying to do the same thing instead of Keith deferring O to someone who can do it much better than him at this point.

I think, like I aforementioned, you separate them. Keith needs his icetime cut but until Joker proves otherwise, you keep Keith for the deadliest of matchups and off the powerplay! If/As Joker grows into that role you start transition Keith off the heaviest assignments.

I am hopeful Keith can be a good match-up guy in his late 30's (like Chara) - he has the IQ and defensive smarts to do so. He definitely needs to be off the PP, it's crazy how much better Gus is.

Also while Keith might be getting 'slower', he's still faster than tons of D-men in the NHL, and he's a conditioning freak.

Also Keith said he feels like he's in his 20's and can play till 45

 

[LordKOTL]

I am hopeful Keith can be a good match-up guy in his late 30's (like Chara) - he has the IQ and defensive smarts to do so. He definitely needs to be off the PP, it's crazy how much better Gus is.

Also while Keith might be getting 'slower', he's still faster than tons of D-men in the NHL, and he's a conditioning freak.

Also Keith said he feels like he's in his 20's and can play till 45

Somehow I doubt Keith will play past his current deal. Jagr he's not. Still better than the #7 who shall not be named, though