The Great Dale Weise Debate (& other ex-Hawks) volume 3

[Blue Liner]

No one would be talking about Panarin if Saad was the usual Saad. That's all there is to it. It hasn't worked out that way this season, but I have a real hard time believing this isn't an anomaly season for him. Too much evidence suggesting such.

 

[LDF]

with a lousy season coming to an end, everyone, yes even me will or can point fingers to say "this is the reason" .....

the thing is, who cares. this season is coming to end, time to rebuild. i still will give the mulligan to all the players, this losing is way bigger than any one player.

 

[chrispw1]

Panarin - K.Hayes - Teravainen
Ladd - Danault - Frolik
Versteeg - Shaw - Hartman
Nordstrom - Vermette - Panik
Brouwer
Wingels
Kruger
J.Hayes

Leddy - Johns
Hjalmarsson - van Riemsdyk
Kempny - Byfuglien
Dahlbeck

Raanta
Niemi (2.43 GAA, .930Sv% in MTL in 15gp!)
Darling

If that team of ex Hawks were to play this Crawford less version, which team would win a best of seven series, we could even have the ex Hawks coached by Kitchen, Compon and Haviland.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

Everyone sucks this season. No one could have guessed Saad would go full 2015-16 Hossa.
Next year will be better.
Good for Bread. But his production wouldn't make a whole lot of a difference here. We have no goaltending. Let him try to do something with CBJ

 

[Hawkaholic]

Hjalmarsson is out for the year with a lower body injury. Only played 48 games this year.

Nick Leddy is -42 on the year...yikes. say what you want about +/-, that is bad. Next worse on the team is -22, a forward. Next closest D is -8.

 

[Blue Liner]

Hjalmarsson is out for the year with a lower body injury. Only played 48 games this year.

Nick Leddy is -42 on the year...yikes. say what you want about +/-, that is bad. Next worse on the team is -22, a forward. Next closest D is -8.

I always say +/- is essentially useless unless it's grossly high or low, then it's more indicative of something. -42 is not good.

 

[BK]

Hjalmarsson is out for the year with a lower body injury. Only played 48 games this year.

Nick Leddy is -42 on the year...yikes. say what you want about +/-, that is bad. Next worse on the team is -22, a forward. Next closest D is -8.

Like I said earlier this year. Leddy for all of his talent is still weak in the defensive zone.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I always say +/- is essentially useless unless it's grossly high or low, then it's more indicative of something. -42 is not good.

I've never been huge on +/- either, but as you said, -42 is not a good number to have attached to your name, particularly as a D. That's just terrible.

 

[LDF]

the +/- is not the tell all for me. however see some who say they are not a fan of of this stat. but yet will look at it when it is high. this is really confusing either you are for it or against it. this or there is no middle of the road opinion.

i use the +/- to gauge the players performance or ability to defend. this tells me that they were on the ice for when the opps scored. also knowing that a lot of times the real +/- is still not the real story. mainly b/c there are situation when the player gets a pass , like power play or being short handed which comes to mind.

this is me.

 

[AmericanDream]

I always say +/- is essentially useless unless it's grossly high or low, then it's more indicative of something. -42 is not good.

yeah and from the Isle fans I have been talking to, most agree that it really hasn't been all on his play, he is just the type of guy who attacks much more offensively. Unfortunately he logs the most minutes on that blue line and has just been in over his head as a #1 on a team that like us has absolutely no structure. Leddy is the perfect #2 dman in the league just needs a bit of sheltering at times...he isn't getting that at all.

again, not saying Leddy hasn't played bad, but from all accounts he is taking the brunt of that shit system and his style of play certainly isn't going to do him a lot of favors +/- wise...

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Man, that's a nice pension.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

 

[BK]

Doesn't sound good.

 

[Blue Liner]

Man, that's a nice pension.

Wow! I didn't know that. Damn. Good for him. At least they're not the Mets still paying Bonilla $ 1 million per year 20 years after he retired.

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

He had seven points in seven games in 2016 and was one of many that did squat in 2017. I just don't get the talking point that he was a non-factor when the playoffs came around when that statement only makes sense if you only look at 2017 and then hold him to a different standard compared to the rest of the team.

The "Panarin is a crappy playoff player" narrative has driven me crazy ever since it has started. Its just lazy.

 

[Blue Liner]

The "Panarin is a crappy playoff player" narrative has driven me crazy ever since it has started. Its just lazy.

This, "Hjalmarsson is the missing piece and one that got away", and "Dale Tallon singlehandedly built the entire Blackhawks dynasty" are my three most puzzling narratives and none of them will ever, ever die.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Yotes extend Raanta for 3 years it seems

 

[Pez68]

Yeah. Hammer does nothing to help the Hawks this season. Absolutely nothing.

 

[TQE]

The "Panarin is a crappy playoff player" narrative has driven me crazy ever since it has started. Its just lazy.

Panarin has not produced in the playoffs yet. So, the jury is still out on whether he is a "crappy playoff performer" or not. Just as the jury is still out on who won the trade. Too early to say on either count.

I understood and even supported the trade. Admittedly, it doesn't look good for the Bhawks now and I think it's quite likely it will look worse after the playoffs this year. I would have liked to have seen him have a chance to carry his own line in a playoff series here, but it just didn't work out that way.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Panarin has not produced in the playoffs yet. So, the jury is still out on whether he is a "crappy playoff performer" or not. Just as the jury is still out on who won the trade. Too early to say on either count.

I understood and even supported the trade. Admittedly, it doesn't look good for the Bhawks now and I think it's quite likely it will look worse after the playoffs this year. I would have liked to have seen him have a chance to carry his own line in a playoff series here, but it just didn't work out that way.

Panarin literally was a PPG player in 2016 against the Blues....

 

[BK]

Panarin has not produced in the playoffs yet. So, the jury is still out on whether he is a "crappy playoff performer" or not. Just as the jury is still out on who won the trade. Too early to say on either count.

I understood and even supported the trade. Admittedly, it doesn't look good for the Bhawks now and I think it's quite likely it will look worse after the playoffs this year. I would have liked to have seen him have a chance to carry his own line in a playoff series here, but it just didn't work out that way.

At least look at the numbers before making claims...

 

[TQE]

At least look at the numbers before making claims...

Ok, so you are taking me literally and assuming I am saying he hasn't produced any points in a playoff game. He has. I'm aware. He was decent in the Blues series.

What I should have literally said is that he hasn't had a major impact in the playoffs as of yet or even been a strong contributor to a team's deep playoff run.

Not that he won't. In fact, I said that I believe he will. It will boil down to what we eventually get out of (or for) Saad.

Better?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Like I said earlier this year. Leddy for all of his talent is still weak in the defensive zone.

Damn Q still holding the kid back

If not for Q holding him back he would be Bobby Orr 2.0

Seriously though Q has been vindicated as Leddy is still the soft , flee from contact and give up on play defender he was here

Loved the kid with the puck but he is a mess without it

 

[BobbyJet]

Damn Q still holding the kid back

If not for Q holding him back he would be Bobby Orr 2.0

Seriously though Q has been vindicated as Leddy is still the soft , flee from contact and give up on play defender he was here

Loved the kid with the puck but he is a mess without it

Sounds familiar, doesn't it.

 

[Rolo]

Even if Saad was a 55pt player this year, everyone would still be laughing at us.

Most people expected a regression of some sort to Panarin, as he does not have a Kane to play with. (it's not a knock on his skill, it's just expected when you stop playing with one of the best RW's in the game..)

However, not only did he improve his point totals he also became the MVP of the team, set a franchise record for points in a season, manage to be in Torts good book, became a two-way player, and dragged along a 19 year old rookie C and a revolving cast of subpar RWs (Foligno, Anderson, Atkinson).

Panarin has 82pts, second highest forward has 48 points!

I hope Panarin helps the Jackets knock off the Pens in the first round.