The Great Dale Weise Debate (& other ex-Hawks) volume 3

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Stan looked at this teams future in 15 and bought. Brought us a cup. Glad he didn't listen to you.

 

[Blackhawks]

Can you really blame Stan Bowman on the Toews deal?

All GMs in the league would do the same, and ALL posters on this board if they were in his shoes at that EXACT time (no hindsight)

Saad, while I was not a fan of the deal, did anyone except him to REGRESS to a 35 point pace? He was a 55 point guy with superior defense. His struggles are on him, and potentially coaching/system of the team.

Seabrook is bad, but again I would bet 60-75% of the GMs would make this move, and posters on this board. It's just hard to let a guy walk like that, and you know Seabrook's camp was pushing for a long term deal.

Look at our current roster, Stan Bowman has brought in Dcat, Schmaltz, Duclair, Kampf, Hino, Murphy, Forsling, Oesterle, Hartman, Anisimov. All good trades and picks.

You go though most NHL lineups and they have comparable young players, so this is not as great as people think...

Osterle is not all
Anisimov has been bad
Hartman inconsistent and meh
Murphy is a fail no matter how much Hawks fans want to hype him, a simple look at other elite teams and you can see how bad a player Murphy is when slotted in the top 4, this is not a recipe for success


Panarin, TT, Danault, and even Hammer would help this team right now big time and I know most here will tell you how bad he is when they have not even watched more than 2 games on Arizona but then again its Arizona and the whole team sucks so no wonder why someone would not be motivated to play well... These are guys he should really be evaluated for

The bad signings/trades outweigh the good ones and he should be fired immediately before he causes more damage

Any one remember the speech after getting swept last year? Looking back at it now its hilarious, stupid Stany boy

 

[AmericanDream]

You go though most NHL lineups and they have comparable young players, so this is not as great as people think...

Osterle is not all
Anisimov has been bad
Hartman inconsistent and meh
Murphy is a fail no matter how much Hawks fans want to hype him, a simple look at other elite teams and you can see how bad a player Murphy is when slotted in the top 4, this is not a recipe for success


Panarin, TT, Danault, and even Hammer would help this team right now big time and I know most here will tell you how bad he is when they have not even watched more than 2 games on Arizona but then again its Arizona and the whole team sucks so no wonder why someone would not be motivated to play well... These are guys he should really be evaluated for

The bad signings/trades outweigh the good ones and he should be fired immediately before he causes more damage

Any one remember the speech after getting swept last year? Looking back at it now its hilarious, stupid Stany boy

Osterle has been good and bad, shouldn't be playing 22 damn minutes a night, that is the issue.
Hartman has been doing what he needs to do - a 2nd line/3rd line young energy guy that has potential for more.
Murphy is a young defensemen who has been bounced all over the place, given limited minutes yet proving he belongs in the top 4. this is the guy that will surprise the most next year when Q is gone.
Anisimov- yep, he has been bad, can't say shit otherwise.

 

[JaegerDice]

I'd certainly much rather have Stan than Tallon. Stan has made his mistakes, but Tallon has done a better job of improving the Vegas Golden Knights than he has the Flordia Panthers (you know, the team he's actually in charge of).

As far as what Stan did, all he did was clean up the mess Tallon left him with after 2010, because Tallon apparently couldn't operate a fax machine properly. In 2 years he basically rebuilt a suppporting cast from scratch. For comparison's sake, it took PIT 7 years to achieve the same.

If this season is the start a fully-committed retool, you let Stan finish the job. If it fails, then you can him.

 

[LDF]

I'd certainly much rather have Stan than Tallon. Stan has made his mistakes, but Tallon has done a better job of improving the Vegas Golden Knights than he has the Flordia Panthers (you know, the team he's actually in charge of).

As far as what Stan did, all he did was clean up the mess Tallon left him with after 2010, because Tallon apparently couldn't operate a fax machine properly. In 2 years he basically rebuilt a suppporting cast from scratch. For comparison's sake, it took PIT 7 years to achieve the same.

If this season is the start a fully-committed retool, you let Stan finish the job. If it fails, then you can him.

the team needs and i mean the team needs to embrace the whole idea of retooling/rebuilding . i mean the philosophic meaning of the next phase. none of this half ass chicken shit tweeks. let SB do what he does best, getting young talented players.

 

[Blue Liner]

I'd certainly much rather have Stan than Tallon. Stan has made his mistakes, but Tallon has done a better job of improving the Vegas Golden Knights than he has the Flordia Panthers (you know, the team he's actually in charge of).

As far as what Stan did, all he did was clean up the mess Tallon left him with after 2010, because Tallon apparently couldn't operate a fax machine properly. In 2 years he basically rebuilt a suppporting cast from scratch. For comparison's sake, it took PIT 7 years to achieve the same.

If this season is the start a fully-committed retool, you let Stan finish the job. If it fails, then you can him.

All of this.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Okay, let's be real, BWC. You were one of the biggest people talking about how our era of elite contendership was over after we lost in 2014 to the Kings. You can claim that you didn't know that Kane was going to be back in time for the 2015 playoffs all you want, but the fact is that you threw the towel in on the team's chances even before that season began. And I'm fairly sure that you were one of admittedly many that were of the opinion that the Hawks weren't close to being contenders going into the truncated 2013 season and that we should retool right then and there. So, considering that your disagreements with Bowman's methods would have definitely cost us one Cup and likely two if my memory of the last lockout is correct, that's the reason why most posters here have a hard time accepting your statements condemning Stanley now when essentially your critical habits have been to say that he's wrong at almost every possible moment before you finally were right on a swing and a miss.

Bowman thought he could squeeze one more Cup out of the team in 2016 and made a move for the most attractive trade target at the time in Ladd and likewise tried to further augment our forward lines with more depth by trading away admittedly attractive prospects that weren't ready to help the team immediately. It didn't work for us this time, and you could definitely make the argument that he should've focused more on defense, but it's not like those were irrational moves or didn't make sense in any capacity.

And I'll admit that the Seabrook extension made no sense at the time, and will likely haunt us, but at the core he rewarded a guy that was instrumental for our golden age. Bad sentimental move and maybe he let Seabrook's past blind him for what he was going to be in the future, so that's definitely on him. He's gotten us out of holes in the past, and hopefully he can do so going forward.

 

[BK]

Okay, let's be real, BWC. You were one of the biggest people talking about how our era of elite contendership was over after we lost in 2014 to the Kings. You can claim that you didn't know that Kane was going to be back in time for the 2015 playoffs all you want, but the fact is that you threw the towel in on the team's chances even before that season began. And I'm fairly sure that you were one of admittedly many that were of the opinion that the Hawks weren't close to being contenders going into the truncated 2013 season and that we should retool right then and there. So, considering that your disagreements with Bowman's methods would have definitely cost us one Cup and likely two if my memory of the last lockout is correct, that's the reason why most posters here have a hard time accepting your statements condemning Stanley now when essentially your critical habits have been to say that he's wrong at almost every possible moment before you finally were right on a swing and a miss.

Bowman thought he could squeeze one more Cup out of the team in 2016 and made a move for the most attractive trade target at the time in Ladd and likewise tried to further augment our forward lines with more depth by trading away admittedly attractive prospects that weren't ready to help the team immediately. It didn't work for us this time, and you could definitely make the argument that he should've focused more on defense, but it's not like those were irrational moves or didn't make sense in any capacity.

And I'll admit that the Seabrook extension made no sense at the time, and will likely haunt us, but at the core he rewarded a guy that was instrumental for our golden age. Bad sentimental move and maybe he let Seabrook's past blind him for what he was going to be in the future, so that's definitely on him. He's gotten us out of holes in the past, and hopefully he can do so going forward.

LOGIC.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

BWC also said there's no way the team had a chance to go anywhere in 10 after failing to trade the moon for Tomas Vokoun.

 

[TLEH]

Vokoun?? Lol that team was invincible

 

[Blackhawks]

BWC also said there's no way the team had a chance to go anywhere in 10 after failing to trade the moon for Tomas Vokoun.

Funny how when the majority doesnt agree with one person then his flaws are brought out to the front and ridiculed, who here hasnt said things that came out wrong? Most here were predicting this squad to make the playoffs at the beginning of the season and many loved the Panarin for Saad trade, etc.

 

[Rolo]

Okay, let's be real, BWC. You were one of the biggest people talking about how our era of elite contendership was over after we lost in 2014 to the Kings. You can claim that you didn't know that Kane was going to be back in time for the 2015 playoffs all you want, but the fact is that you threw the towel in on the team's chances even before that season began. And I'm fairly sure that you were one of admittedly many that were of the opinion that the Hawks weren't close to being contenders going into the truncated 2013 season and that we should retool right then and there. So, considering that your disagreements with Bowman's methods would have definitely cost us one Cup and likely two if my memory of the last lockout is correct, that's the reason why most posters here have a hard time accepting your statements condemning Stanley now when essentially your critical habits have been to say that he's wrong at almost every possible moment before you finally were right on a swing and a miss.

I had a good chuckle from this

 

[BK]

Funny how when the majority doesnt agree with one person then his flaws are brought out to the front and ridiculed, who here hasnt said things that came out wrong? Most here were predicting this squad to make the playoffs at the beginning of the season and many loved the Panarin for Saad trade, etc.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Funny how when the majority doesnt agree with one person then his flaws are brought out to the front and ridiculed, who here hasnt said things that came out wrong? Most here were predicting this squad to make the playoffs at the beginning of the season and many loved the Panarin for Saad trade, etc.

I've got no problems with dissenting opinions. I've been wrong about plenty. It's insane tin foil hat flat earther nonsense that irks me.

 

[Pez68]

People still respond to him. That's just amazing to me.

 

[TLEH]

Funny how when the majority doesnt agree with one person then his flaws are brought out to the front and ridiculed, who here hasnt said things that came out wrong? Most here were predicting this squad to make the playoffs at the beginning of the season and many loved the Panarin for Saad trade, etc.

Thing is.. most of us will admit we were wrong and it didn’t work out. Others just moves goalposts and goes onto a new topic to rant about or makes wild connections

 

[Blackhawks]

Thing is.. most of us will admit we were wrong and it didn’t work out. Others just moves goalposts and goes onto a new topic to rant about or makes wild connections

Trust me people are still sticking by their Panarin for Saad move being a good one or they will say things like it was a good move at the time but Saad didn’t show up or he will be good next year, or some sad excuse like that and rarely ever say they were wrong...

 

[TLEH]

Some people don’t even have to say their beliefs, it just comes out in there posts. They’ll praise certain players and never say anything positive about others they don’t like. Everybody is guilty to an extent, but it is obvious

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Trust me people are still sticking by their Panarin for Saad move being a good one or they will say things like it was a good move at the time but Saad didn’t show up or he will be good next year, or some sad excuse like that and rarely ever say they were wrong...

Superstar Saad, amirite?

 

[Blackhawks]

Superstar Saad, amirite?

That horse has been beat to death a million times. Go back and look at what I said about the Saad-Panarin trade...


This is you:

"I also think you can sign Saad for roughly this cap hit moving forward. With the impending McDavid/Drai/Matthews/Marner contracts that will be handed out, Panarin will probably be pulling in 8+. He wasn't going to be a Hawk after two years. Saad? Could be here for a decade.

I think we gave up the better player. I also think we took a step backward to take two forward."

There aint no forward steps in sight LMAOOOOOOO more like ten steps backwards LOL

Some of you here are funny

 

[Blackhawks]

This is BK in the trade thread

"This is a win-win for both teams. Saad is a perfect fit here and Columbus needed more scoring."

"Our lines will have sooooooo much more balance."

LOL oh how funny that looks now, I can keep going really

 

[ColdSteel2]

Can’t defend Saad’s play this year. I was wrong about him, thought he was ready to take the next step. Still think he can. Panarin has been better in Columbus this year than last year with us so I give him credit for stepping up.

However, I do stand by my belief that Panarin and Kane together made this team win games it shouldn’t have and masked a lot of the problems that are now exposed and can be in part addressed with a top draft pick. I think we would have made the playoffs with AP and that would have left us stuck in the middle of contending and rebuilding.

 

[AmericanDream]

Saad and Panarin have scored the same amount of goals, while Panarin has played even worse defense than Saad...Panarin has more assists.

13 power play points for Panarin
1 power play point for Saad
I give Panarin a lot of credit as he is still explosive out there on a disappointing team as well, but man is that power play point total the real difference between the two this year.

Saad has 1 freaking power play point - that is disgusting. Disgusting on Saad, Q, the staff, etc..

I am not crying over Panarin as he has his own issues this year, but this power play has killed so many of our top players point totals..

Saad has been bad the past 10 or so games, like real bad - not defending him one ounce, I will wait until after next year to see how this deal looks before jumping one way or the other.

 

[LDF]

Can’t defend Saad’s play this year. I was wrong about him, thought he was ready to take the next step. Still think he can. Panarin has been better in Columbus this year than last year with us so I give him credit for stepping up.

However, I do stand by my belief that Panarin and Kane together made this team win games it shouldn’t have and masked a lot of the problems that are now exposed and can be in part addressed with a top draft pick. I think we would have made the playoffs with AP and that would have left us stuck in the middle of contending and rebuilding.

i will disagree with you b/c of this fine point. last yr, the team was expose to having a problem, that problem was and is the defense. instead of addressing that area, this yr that problem has been cemented by the same consensuses..... the defense got old and the top pairing is lacking.

 

[ColdSteel2]

i will disagree with you b/c of this fine point. last yr, the team was expose to having a problem, that problem was and is the defense. instead of addressing that area, this yr that problem has been cemented by the same consensuses..... the defense got old and the top pairing is lacking.

Maybe I wasn’t as clear as I intended but my main point is that Panarin helps us significantly more in the regular season than Saad and that trade is one of, among the many reasons, this team fell to the bottom this year. Our best chance of getting that D-man we need is a top 10 pick and alls well that ends well if we do in fact get a good young D with the pick.