Player Discussion: The Elvis Thread

[cbjthrowaway]

I've been on the fire Jarmo train for a long time but I disagree with many of the latest strikes on your manifesto, particularly the ones related to Pascal's decisions.

i've been a jarmo defender for years, but the babcock thing on its own was inexcusible.

i also get that pascal was making the decisions with some of these, but it's a rookie coach making major lineup choices with potential adverse impacts on the organization's relationship with star/young players.

jarmo created a situation that led to a rookie coach getting the job the day before camp opened, so any of pascal's decisions also reflect on jarmo imo.

- Immature recent picks like KJ and Jiricek shouldn't be playing 82 NHL games in the first place, we should be having them on the Leo Carlsson plan. So I think you have it exactly backwards.

i'm not opposed to load management conceptually speaking, but i view these as three very different scenarios:

1. leo carlsson: 18-year-old rookie coming straight over from the SHL and playing center ice
2. kent johnson: 21-year-old who had a full college season after being drafted and a full NHL season after that, with good production, and is a pending RFA
3. david jiricek: has a full AHL season under his belt, was told to get a place in columbus before being sent down

i'm not criticizing it for anti-load management reasons, i'm criticizing it because it's a (presumed) lame-duck GM potentially jeopardizing the organization's relationship with two future cornerstone players.

if it had really blown up and one of them had requested a trade, the front office would either have to fire jarmo to in hopes of keeping the player (sets a bad precedent) or trust jarmo to clean up yet another mess he created, to the detriment of his eventual successor.

- Benching Severson, Gaudreau, and Laine was very necessary and I hope he does it again if called for.

again, not criticizing the decision specifically, but having those high-profile signings benched for poor performance should be fireable for the GM (not coach) if the GM is on thin ice.

additionally, the laine scratching (not benching) caused a public spat, and trade speculation. friedman even alluded to laine maybe wanting a trade, but columbus not having a market.

it's not about vincent or laine at that point, it's about whether or not ownership wants to back up its words, or if they're content to let a GM who they publicly rebuked navigate the major moves that happen subsequent to that. and that was before they started doing the same dance with elvis.

 

[majormajor]

i've been a jarmo defender for years, but the babcock thing on its own was inexcusible.

i also get that pascal was making the decisions with some of these, but it's a rookie coach making major lineup choices with potential adverse impacts on the organization's relationship with star/young players.

jarmo created a situation that led to a rookie coach getting the job the day before camp opened, so any of pascal's decisions also reflect on jarmo imo.

i'm not opposed to load management conceptually speaking, but i view these as three very different scenarios:

1. leo carlsson: 18-year-old rookie coming straight over from the SHL and playing center ice
2. kent johnson: 21-year-old who had a full college season after being drafted and a full NHL season after that, with good production, and is a pending RFA
3. david jiricek: has a full AHL season under his belt, was told to get a place in columbus before being sent down

i'm not criticizing it for anti-load management reasons, i'm criticizing it because it's a (presumed) lame-duck GM potentially jeopardizing the organization's relationship with two future cornerstone players.

if it had really blown up and one of them had requested a trade, the front office would either have to fire jarmo to in hopes of keeping the player (sets a bad precedent) or trust jarmo to clean up yet another mess he created, to the detriment of his eventual successor.

again, not criticizing the decision specifically, but having those high-profile signings benched for poor performance should be fireable for the GM (not coach) if the GM is on thin ice.

additionally, the laine scratching (not benching) caused a public spat, and trade speculation. friedman even alluded to laine maybe wanting a trade, but columbus not having a market.

it's not about vincent or laine at that point, it's about whether or not ownership wants to back up its words, or if they're content to let a GM who they publicly rebuked navigate the major moves that happen subsequent to that. and that was before they started doing the same dance with elvis.

Okay I see what you mean.

I do disagree about the young players still. The idea that scratching them or giving them an AHL stint ruins the relationship is backwards. We should be focused on their development and what that requires, not on immediately pleasing them. In Jiricek's case, he shouldn't be in the NHL in the first place. Jarmo's error, among many others, was saying that David should get a place (which I believe he first stumbled into saying in a tv interview). David's complaint about having to play in the AHL is ridiculous, no one in the org should give any preferential treatment based on such a complaint. The player isn't too good to play there, not even close to that.

KJ is more advanced but hardly too good either. He was certainly not too good, quite bad actually, to start the year. The AHL stint did him well. And if they did sit him again that would be fine too, there's nothing more important than development.* The player does not need to be happy about it. I understand because of other acrimonious relationships that we're very on edge about unhappy players, but giving in to every young players immediate wishes leads to its own set of serious problems, which we should also know from experience.

*I understand that HF takes it as a truism that playing as many games as possible is best for development but that is demonstrably false, especially with skilled wingers (see virtually any Russian-trained winger), and especially with beanpole prospects like Jiricek.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Okay I see what you mean.

I do disagree about the young players still. The idea that scratching them or giving them an AHL stint ruins the relationship is backwards.

occasionally scratching them is fine, especially if it's communicated upfront. i have no reason to believe that isn't the case with vincent.

sending a guy down after telling them to 'get a place' is a potential relationship-ruiner.

first: how would you feel if your employer cut your pay by 90% days after promising job security?

second: given that he was making $855k in the NHL (with up to $1m bonuses), he probably sprung for a pretty nice place. even if it's a rental it's entirely possible that he literally couldn't afford that on an AHL paycheck ($82.5k).

had they not told him to get a place, it's a different story entirely. but they did, and that's an awful thing to do to a young player in that position.

We should be focused on their development and what that requires, not on immediately pleasing them. In Jiricek's case, he shouldn't be in the NHL in the first place.

the FO believed that he was an NHL-ready player in training camp. if they were right about that, telling him to get a place and then sending him down is a huge misstep. if they were wrong about that, burning the ELC year (he was double-slide eligible) for him to play 12 minutes a night is even worse.

KJ is more advanced but hardly too good either. He was certainly not too good, quite bad actually, to start the year. The AHL stint did him well. And if they did sit him again that would be fine too, there's nothing more important than development.* The player does not need to be happy about it. I understand because of other acrimonious relationships that we're very on edge about unhappy players, but giving in to every young players immediate wishes leads to its own set of serious problems, which we should also know from experience.

even with the AHL stint helping his play, there are still enough reasons to be concerned with how the coaching staff and FO have handled kent in a RFA year, especially given their treatment of previous RFAs.

he's 10.2(c) eligible, so he's not arb or offer sheet eligible. normally that's good news, but jarmo has alienated RFA players multiple times before by exerting full leverage. so the stage is set for the relationship to go south if he wants to use those tactics again.

but on top of that, this is a player who was one of their best forwards last year, who was a healthy scratch on game 1, then got minimal ice time, then got sent down and had his confidence questioned (which he disagreed with), then called up and given even less ice time until recently.

in a vacuum, there's no problem with sending a guy like that down, but there are big-picture reasons to be concerned with the fact that ownership still (apparently) sees jarmo as their best option to be the organization's primary decision-maker.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[majormajor]

sending a guy down after telling them to 'get a place' is a potential relationship-ruiner.

first: how would you feel if your employer cut your pay by 90% days after promising job security?

second: given that he was making $855k in the NHL (with up to $1m bonuses), he probably sprung for a pretty nice place. even if it's a rental it's entirely possible that he literally couldn't afford that on an AHL paycheck ($82.5k).

had they not told him to get a place, it's a different story entirely. but they did, and that's an awful thing to do to a young player in that position.

the FO believed that he was an NHL-ready player in training camp. if they were right about that, telling him to get a place and then sending him down is a huge misstep. if they were wrong about that, burning the ELC year (he was double-slide eligible) for him to play 12 minutes a night is even worse.

The bad part is telling a guy to get a place when he isn't solidly NHL caliber, where you're not sure he won't be sent down. That was the mistake, not the sending down part. Keeping a guy up and damaging his development that way is the worst thing you can do to a young player.

even with the AHL stint helping his play, there are still enough reasons to be concerned with how the coaching staff and FO have handled kent in a RFA year, especially given their treatment of previous RFAs.

he's 10.2(c) eligible, so he's not arb or offer sheet eligible. normally that's good news, but jarmo has alienated RFA players multiple times before by exerting full leverage. so the stage is set for the relationship to go south if he wants to use those tactics again.

I think you might have to go back many years to find an example of that. The whole post-mortem after we had the exodus of players was several years ago now, when several players complained about the negotiations. After that Jarmo veered in the opposite direction and has given replacement level RFAs big multi-million dollar deals on their second contracts.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

I always wonder whether players understand when there's no market for them as they ask for a trade.

Does Elvis know he hasn't played like #1 often enough for teams to commit into with $5,4m contract? Or is he just looping "I am #1 goalie, I deserve better" in his head, ignoring his last few seasons and contract

 

[KJ Dangler]

And his goals saved above expected average is 1. Average but not bad considering how bad the team is. He's not exactly Vitek Vanecek and his -13.4.

Jusse Saros is -8.2 and Marc-Andre Fleury is -7.3 right now.

I’d be really curious what it would be if you took out the 3rd periods , when our team goes into a turtle shell and quits playing hockey

 

[koteka]

I always wonder whether players understand when there's no market for them as they ask for a trade.

I would expect most players over estimate their value. It starts early - I know from youth hockey that you will have 10 sets of parents that expect their kid to be on the top line.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Ran into the same problems when I requested a trade

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

In Latvian but a very honest interview with Elvis:


Few mins in:
* He had a very rough time last spring about the status last year. Won't go into details but you can see in his eyes when he talks about it
* He is upset that it has come to this, he really likes Columbus and the guys
* He didn't "request" it. He just sit down (with Jarmo I guess) and it just came to this.
* Not only he but also the familly is stressed out about the situation and it is not their "welcomed" scenario
* At the same time he understands the situation and is preparing for the new chapter in his career

Nothing new for me. Elvis is a very heart and sole guy. His interviews at least in Latvian are very honest.

Bringing this here from the main just because it's about the thread topic. Offering no opinion on Elvis' comments. Also assuming what the poster translated is accurate because how am I going to tell?

 

[Bobcat205]

Just to get things clear at this point…. I was considered a “hater” of the team for “hating” Merzlikins because he was apart of the team…

No, what makes you a hater is the fact that you only show up here when something goes wrong. Where were you when we beat Chicago in a dominant display? Where were you during the Buffalo game a month ago? Where were you last night when we got a hard-earned win over a team that's currently leading their division?

How miserable of a life must you lead for you to only get enjoyment out of this forum through negativity? I understand the team's in a rough spot right now, but ignoring/dismissing all the good that has come out of this year (the breakthrough of our Russians, Sillinger's recent run of form, etc.) just ruins the already-shaky mood around here.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I'll move this here since the other topic was closed by powers that be.

We have to remember that Tarasov's play was influenced by injuries, he has to get used to playing more games. Besides, if I have to compare the last few games, the defence had vacation in the games against the Jets and the Krakens, it was much better against the Canucks. Not to forget that the fourth line has improved with Kuraly's return.

I don't mind giving Tarasov a shot but he's basically being handed the job and it is his to lose. He's not earning the job with his play. There is sort of a difference there when we preach accountability. His injury history should also be played into account.

You also seem to be giving Tarasov a pass because the defense in front of him sucked but that same pass has not been given to Elvis under similar circumstances. I'm not basing any of this on 1-2 games but the entire body of work.

Maybe the team doesn't have confidence in Tarasov. Maybe they played harder in front of Elvis because they all hate Jarmo and want to stick it to him. Maybe most of the younger players actually like Elvis outside of a few random unnamed people that Portzline alludes to. We have a budding core of Russian players who seem like they are close to Elvis. Is Jarmo's treatment of this situation playing into their long term desire to stay here? We recall the Chinakov trade rumblings a few weeks ago. This team always has drama and it always involves Jarmo.

Does Tarasov need more playing time? Yes.
Does he need to prove he can be healthy? yes.
Has this team absolutely screwed around with his development? Yes.
Does this sound like Jarmo is desperate for Tarasov to pan out because he hates Elvis after he pinned himself into a contract? Yes.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

As much as I hate the Buckeye Sports Network:

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

As much as I hate the Buckeye Sports Network:

 

[Kalv]

Bringing this here from the main just because it's about the thread topic. Offering no opinion on Elvis' comments. Also assuming what the poster translated is accurate because how am I going to tell?

I have to say that further into an interview he did mention that he and agent somehow notes that they need to be traded. But in a way that it is not what he wants, but it is what the real situation in the team required (him demoted to the 3rd goalie). He really seems to be liking Columbus but kind of a "it is what it is" situation

 

[Napoli]

My exact thoughts when I read that. Have some shame

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Elvis Merzlikins trade chatter: The latest in Columbus, and 4 potential landing spots

It won't be easy to trade Merzlikins because of his contract, but he would make sense for a handful of teams.

theathletic.com

As best we can surmise, after speaking with Merzlikins, Johansen and several sources within the Blue Jackets, here’s what went down:

The Blue Jackets were fed up after Merzlikins pulled himself out of a Dec. 29 game vs. Toronto after the first period. It’s at least the third game in the last two seasons that Merzlikins has exited due to a reported illness.

Who knows the extent of illness and the situation behind it but if I am legitimately sick and get demoted, I'd be pissed too. Maybe Elvis was a bit dramatic about it. We'll never know but it also takes balls to get pissed at someone for not feeling well.

 

[Monk]

Elvis Merzlikins trade chatter: The latest in Columbus, and 4 potential landing spots

It won't be easy to trade Merzlikins because of his contract, but he would make sense for a handful of teams.

theathletic.com

As best we can surmise, after speaking with Merzlikins, Johansen and several sources within the Blue Jackets, here’s what went down:

The Blue Jackets were fed up after Merzlikins pulled himself out of a Dec. 29 game vs. Toronto after the first period. It’s at least the third game in the last two seasons that Merzlikins has exited due to a reported illness.

Who knows the extent of illness and the situation behind it but if I am legitimately sick and get demoted, I'd be pissed too. Maybe Elvis was a bit dramatic about it. We'll never know but it also takes balls to get pissed at someone for not feeling well.

Or from a management perspective, I'd be pissed if an unwell employee either didn't divulge that and/or insisted on coming to a work event anyway only to bail partially into it. Still doesn't seem like that big a deal either way, and is surely one small piece of a bigger puzzle.

It wouldn't surprise me if more of this relates to the trauma of the summer, the death threats, etc. than we think.

I'm looking forward to reading Portzline's long format on this situation sometime down the road.

 

[joybang]

Elvis Merzlikins trade chatter: The latest in Columbus, and 4 potential landing spots

It won't be easy to trade Merzlikins because of his contract, but he would make sense for a handful of teams.

theathletic.com

As best we can surmise, after speaking with Merzlikins, Johansen and several sources within the Blue Jackets, here’s what went down:

The Blue Jackets were fed up after Merzlikins pulled himself out of a Dec. 29 game vs. Toronto after the first period. It’s at least the third game in the last two seasons that Merzlikins has exited due to a reported illness.

Who knows the extent of illness and the situation behind it but if I am legitimately sick and get demoted, I'd be pissed too. Maybe Elvis was a bit dramatic about it. We'll never know but it also takes balls to get pissed at someone for not feeling well.

It also subsequently refers to the Wilson incident and multiple media quotes over the years that the team had issues with. Just to have the full picture.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

It also subsequently refers to the Wilson incident and multiple media quotes over the years that the team had issues with. Just to have the full picture.

Of course it was just one piece but the front office has developed a strong distrust. Is that distrust warranted? maybe, maybe not but it seems like they are the ones with the problem and not necessarily the locker room like has been insinuated.

 

[joybang]

Unlike us they’re operating with all the information. Frankly I think there’s enough of a book on Elvis to see how his antics can be tiring. It’s not like it’s all new. He’s certainly not a victim here which is what I ultimately have a problem with.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Unlike us they’re operating with all the information. Frankly I think there’s enough of a book on Elvis to see how his antics can be tiring. It’s not like it’s all new. He’s certainly not a victim here which is what I ultimately have a problem with.

As much as I don't care for Jarmo, this situation has the feel of "it takes two to tango". Elvis seems to have forgotten that he couldn't stop a beach ball last year and the team stuck with him and that he's come nowhere close to living up to his contract

 

[joybang]

As much as I don't care for Jarmo, this situation has the feel of "it takes two to tango". Elvis seems to have forgotten that he couldn't stop a beach ball last year and the team stuck with him and that he's come nowhere close to living up to his contract

I think in a vacuum his comments like he made about the power play are whatever. But it’s not the first time he’s made similar comments. When you’re great you can get away with it. When you’re mediocre you can’t. That’s just the way of the world.

Because I can’t remember did any forwards or defensemen last year say “I have no idea what’s going on in net. It’s not my job”.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

.

Because I can’t remember did any forwards or defensemen last year say “I have no idea what’s going on in net. It’s not my job”.

Context is a wonderful thing when you apply it.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Elvis Merzlikins trade chatter: The latest in Columbus, and 4 potential landing spots

It won't be easy to trade Merzlikins because of his contract, but he would make sense for a handful of teams.

theathletic.com

As best we can surmise, after speaking with Merzlikins, Johansen and several sources within the Blue Jackets, here’s what went down:

The Blue Jackets were fed up after Merzlikins pulled himself out of a Dec. 29 game vs. Toronto after the first period. It’s at least the third game in the last two seasons that Merzlikins has exited due to a reported illness.

Who knows the extent of illness and the situation behind it but if I am legitimately sick and get demoted, I'd be pissed too. Maybe Elvis was a bit dramatic about it. We'll never know but it also takes balls to get pissed at someone for not feeling well.

I do have to admit the constant sicknesses and pulling himself has been peculiar. Not that I’m doubting the validity of the sickness or the need to leave the net, but the amount of times it’s happened is what gets me.