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The Advanced Stats Thread Episode VI: RIP To Our Databases

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silverfish

silverfish

got perma'd
Jun 24, 2008
34,644
4,353
under the bridge
Bozle said:
@silverfish do you know if there is any stat that's comparable to WAR from baseball that's developed/in development?

As an aside, I can't get Corsica to work on my phone. Is is the same for everyone?
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I think Manny has a WAR metric, and there might be a GAR metric floating around there somewhere (goals above replacement), but I'm not sure if there's a standard, and my guess is if someone makes one, it'll be purged from the public eye immediately.
 
Thirty One

Thirty One

Safe is safe.
Dec 28, 2003
28,981
24,354
As far as catch-all player value stats, I think there's been lots. GVT, K, Game Score. None have emerged to be as widely used as WAR has been though.
 
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Machinehead

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
143,113
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NYC
Remember when Benn Ferriero was awesome for two games and it made Torts mad for some reason? That was cool.

6 points in 23 games in the Austrian league last year.
 
Harbour Dog

Harbour Dog

Registered User
Jul 16, 2015
10,372
13,083
St. John's
Machinehead said:
That line has been better with Fast.

SSS but they have.
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It helps that Mika and Kreider have been beasting recently, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Fast turns out to be a better option on that line.

When Buch is on that line, they seem to go for that extra pass a lot more often. With Quickie, everything is so much simpler and more straight ahead.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
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I refuse to believe that a 3rd line grinder is a better option on the first line than a 1st liner, it seems like Zibanejad and Kreider have picked up their games after taking some time to do so following injuries, but it won't stop the MSG and AV narrative that Buchnevich was the problem.
 
Harbour Dog

Harbour Dog

Registered User
Jul 16, 2015
10,372
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St. John's
Pavel Buchnevich said:
I refuse to believe that a 3rd line grinder is a better option on the first line than a 1st liner, it seems like Zibanejad and Kreider have picked up their games after taking some time to do so following injuries, but it won't stop the MSG and AV narrative that Buchnevich was the problem.
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KZB is a great line. How was Buch a problem?

Their numbers are better with Fast right now, but it's been a very small sample size. If their numbers continue to be better with Fast, then he is probably a better fit on the line than Buch. If the numbers regress, then he probably isn't.

And don't you wanna tank? Playing a third line grinder on the top line should be right up your alley!
 
Pavel Buchnevich

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,821
23,768
New York
Harbour Dog said:
KZB is a great line. How was Buch a problem?

Their numbers are better with Fast right now, but it's been a very small sample size. If their numbers continue to be better with Fast, then he is probably a better fit on the line than Buch. If the numbers regress, then he probably isn't.

And don't you wanna tank? Playing a third line grinder on the top line should be right up your alley!
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I'm just saying that this is what we've heard recently. I can't post the transcript because I'm on my phone, but look about what AV said a day or two ago and tell me he's not saying Buchnevich was the problem with that line (I'd argue there was no problem, although AV seems to disagree.)

And then MSG shouts from the rooftops all game about this great new line. Pregame, intro to this game, during the game. It's unbelievably patronizing toward Buchnevich. They had I think two games without a point, and then the line is changed. People were okay with it this time when they werent other times because there's this weird idea Buchnevich and Namestnikov play well together that to me makes no sense and is just based on nationality. Third line, third line minutes, Namestnikov has honestly sucked (whether this is his game without Stamkos and Kucherov is TBD, but he's sucked so far), playing with plugs like Vesey who zap his game.

It's not such a big deal, but it's annoying. AV always demoted one player when he makes changes, and now he's lucked into two of his best players finding form and all of a sudden it's a genius line and the problem was the lazy Russian. I'd prefer we lose but that doesn't mean that I don't have opinions on what's going on with the team right now. Fast is not the issue, it's how this has all been framed, especially by the coach.
 
Machinehead

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
143,113
114,475
NYC
Pavel Buchnevich said:
I refuse to believe that a 3rd line grinder is a better option on the first line than a 1st liner, it seems like Zibanejad and Kreider have picked up their games after taking some time to do so following injuries, but it won't stop the MSG and AV narrative that Buchnevich was the problem.
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Nobody was the problem. There's never been a problem. You're only one pedaling that narrative. If AV thinks there was a problem, he can go f*** himself. Who cares what that fool thinks?

It's just a different combination. We don't have clearly numbered lines and our ice time is more even than most teams. We've been that style of team since Jagr left because of the lack of superstar producers. The truth is, Buchnevich got garbage ice time when he was with Kreider and Zibanejad and he gets garbage ice time now. That bothers me as much as anyone, but to act like he's had something taken away from him is extremely disingenuous.

Sergei Zubov had more talent is his nose hairs than Jeff Beukeboom had in his whole body, but Beukeboom played the top pair because that was the right combination with Leetch. Despite that, anyone would tell you that Zubov was our #2 defenseman.

Tom Wilson plays with Ovechkin and Backstrom because the Capitals' coaches decided they like that three-man unit, but literally nobody on the planet thinks Wilson is a better winger than Oshie, including those coaches.

In the 2016 playoffs, Phil Kessel played on the "third line" with Hagelin and Bonino because it was working. Nobody said "he's a first liner so he deserves to be with Sid instead of a grinder like Sheary" because both lines were working.

This line is working. You can't look at the lineup in such black and white terms.

And again, to say it's not a better option when it has been a better option because "I said so" is exactly the type of logic AV pulls out of his ass.
 
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Machinehead

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
143,113
114,475
NYC
And I guarantee you the first game none of the three score, AV splits it up again.

He'll probably go with Vesey this time so we can all hate ourselves.
 
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