The 2019-20 Tank Command Thread - Part 3

[DJB]

Sens are back down to 3rd pick

 

[HSF]

You do know its healthy for franchise to have a player for his career and retire with that team rather than trading them off prior to pay day. Karlsson playing in another jersey regardless of the return unless its Alexis Lafreniere will always be a ****stain on this teams legacy, just like Alfie playing that season in detroit.

Yuppp

Until Melnyk can prove himself financially again it won't matter

 

[Six Assets]

Damn no help from Pens. A shame Sharks played them tonight and not later in the season. Crosby would have been back

pens still dominated lol

 

[DJB]

pens still dominated lol

But lost so it doesn't matter

 

[TheDebater]

You do know its healthy for franchise to have a player for his career and retire with that team rather than trading them off prior to pay day. Karlsson playing in another jersey regardless of the return unless its Alexis Lafreniere will always be a ****stain on this teams legacy, just like Alfie playing that season in detroit.

I respect your opinion but that does not answer my question at all. All it does it re-hash the endless debate about why he should not have been traded to begin with, but that is in the past and if you want him back I would like to know what you would give up to get him?

You also cannot have it both ways by claiming the trade is a "shitstain" unless it nets us Lafreniere, which it very well could but without the trade you do not get Lafreniere so which is it?

 

[The Lewler]

All you do in the tankathon is do your part and hope for some help.

Mission accomplished tonight, even if it wasn't as mathematically perfect as it could be.

Keep up the good work NJ Devils

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I have really enjoyed the last few losses and am fully on board with the tank. I hope we can keep it rolling and slip in to 2nd before its done.

My passion for Sens hockey is returning. Losing in tank seasons as it moves along is actually pretty exciting.

I was all for Karlsson winning a cup, but obviously that isn't happening this year there, so tank away.

2 of the top 5 or 10 in the draft would go a long way to turning things around much quicker than expected.

I'm excited for all the old guard to leave too. They have been soldiers, but I hope we turn the page on Anderson, Pageau, Boro & Ryan and don't see them back after this year. Obviously Ryan won't be traded, but maybe his situation prevents him from returning.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

f*** off Anaheim.

 

[Another Mr Lizard]

Was at the game tonight.

Boro is beyond bad, he wouldn’t get into the roster of any other NHL team.

The PP is shambolic. It looks way worse at the arena than on TV. They can barely get the puck set up at all and often struggle to even enter the zone.

Chabot has a habit of napping during the game. He isn’t good at all defensively. One comical moment tonight saw him hit a player and then just stand there and watch the player get up and take off up the ice creating an odd man rush and decent scoring chance.

The tank is strong in this team. The second period was so bad, it looked like a 20 minute PP for Florida. The D corps is really weak.

 

[DJB]

Ducks are tanking hard

 

[Micklebot]

I respect your opinion but that does not answer my question at all. All it does it re-hash the endless debate about why he should not have been traded to begin with, but that is in the past and if you want him back I would like to know what you would give up to get him?

You also cannot have it both ways by claiming the trade is a "****stain" unless it nets us Lafreniere, which it very well could but without the trade you do not get Lafreniere so which is it?

I mean, your question is essentially rehashing the same debate too though.

I don't think Karlsson helps us right now. I suppose depending on how this draft goes that could change, add Laf and another top 5 pick and maybe we are one more piece away from contending, but unless our budget changes 11.5 mil players aren't the best use of our resources.

If SJ wants out of his contract they likely have to retain around 3 mil or wait till the cap rises and his remaining term is lower and hope his game doesn't drop of further.

His career arc has always been a bit of a roller coaster, the guy seems to flip a switch and go from god mode to meh with no telling which you'll get.

 

[GCK]

I am legitimately interested in knowing, from those who are still disappointed that Karlsson was traded, what would you give up in a trade TODAY if the Sharks called and said "give us your best offer for Karlsson"?

What would it take to get him back, bearing in mind the cap and money going back both ways to make it fair?

This may have been rhetorical but I wouldn’t take him back. It’s not about the player he is today but what he will inevitably become.

 

[TheDebater]

This may have been rhetorical but I wouldn’t take him back. It’s not about the player he is today but what he will inevitably become.

I suppose my point was to establish that there is no way we would give up anything close to what San Jose gave us to get Karlsson last year. Most people think the package we recieved was terrible yet would anyone at this point give back the 4 players and two picks to San Jose in exchange for Karlsson?

If the answer is no, then we should put an end to the whole "Dorion is ruining the team" rhetoric.

 

[stempniaksen]

If the answer is no, then we should put an end to the whole "Dorion is ruining the team" rhetoric.

The team is about to put up the 3rd (possibly 4th) worst season in the last ~23 years (coming off of arguably the two worst seasons in franchise history). There's a heck of a lot more at play that makes Dorion awful than one single trade.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The team is about to put up the 3rd (possibly 4th) worst season in the last ~23 years (coming off of arguably the two worst seasons in franchise history). There's a heck of a lot more at play that makes Dorion awful than one single trade.

The word rebuild sums that whole thing up nicely. And doing it a pretty good job tanking in the right year at that.

But we’re STILL struggling to be worse than NJ and Detroit who are right there with us on this ‘historic’ season, along with SJ, and a handful of other teams. We’re in the best situation of all of our fellow tankers.

The rebuild is looking pretty damn good, and the return on all of the trades is looking decent to excellent, but that doesn’t seem to matter to some folks. Haters gonna hater after all.

When the young team starts kicking ass the same folks will still be slamming PD, and saying the success of the rebuild is a fluke at best or happened in spite of PD. Book it.

 

[stempniaksen]

The word rebuild sums that whole thing up nicely. And doing it a pretty good job tanking in the right year at that.

But we’re STILL struggling to be worse than NJ and Detroit who are right there with us on this ‘historic’ season, along with SJ, and a handful of other teams. We’re in the best situation of all of our fellow tankers.

The rebuild is looking pretty damn good, and the return on all of the trades is looking decent to excellent, but that doesn’t seem to matter to some folks. Haters gonna hater after all.

When the young team starts kicking ass the same folks will still be slamming PD, and saying the success of the rebuild is a fluke at best or happened in spite of PD. Book it.

The pinnacle of the tank was the year we didn't have our own pick. Wouldn't exactly call that tanking in the right year, personally.

The rest of it is your opinion, not gonna argue with you on that despite having a vastly different view. There's no right or wrong (yet).

 

[TheDebater]

The team is about to put up the 3rd (possibly 4th) worst season in the last ~23 years (coming off of arguably the two worst seasons in franchise history). There's a heck of a lot more at play that makes Dorion awful than one single trade.

So the players we had were bad? Is Dorion to blame for how the players performed on the ice too?

I am trying to understand how Dorion is to blame for both having a good team that he tore apart and to blame for how the past two seasons turned out?

If the answer is the players sucked, then he is to blame for building a crappy core (I.e, Karlsson, Stone, Duchene etc.) but deserves credit for trading them away and re-building OR the team he built was good enough so he is not to blame for their on ice performance but you can blame him for tearing that core apart.

He cannot be blamed for both however, that is simply being completely unfair and biased against him.

 

[stempniaksen]

So the players we had were bad? Is Dorion to blame for how the players performed on the ice too?

I am trying to understand how Dorion is to blame for both having a good team that he tore apart and to blame for how the past two seasons turned out?

If the answer is the players sucked, then he is to blame for building a crappy core (I.e, Karlsson, Stone, Duchene etc.) but deserves credit for trading them away and re-building OR the team he built was good enough so he is not to blame for their on ice performance but you can blame him for tearing that core apart.

He cannot be blamed for both however, that is simply being completely unfair and biased against him.

My stance is that the team sucked, not the core. With the right resources ($$$) a competitive team could have been built around the core players and this rebuild/re-tool wouldn't even be necessary. You could make the argument that's a Melnyk issue, not a Dorion one, but I'm not gonna absolve the guy in charge of hockey ops for 3 (straight) of the worst seasons in franchise history.

 

[HSF]

So the players we had were bad? Is Dorion to blame for how the players performed on the ice too?

I am trying to understand how Dorion is to blame for both having a good team that he tore apart and to blame for how the past two seasons turned out?

If the answer is the players sucked, then he is to blame for building a crappy core (I.e, Karlsson, Stone, Duchene etc.) but deserves credit for trading them away and re-building OR the team he built was good enough so he is not to blame for their on ice performance but you can blame him for tearing that core apart.

He cannot be blamed for both however, that is simply being completely unfair and biased against him.

dude didn't even know about karlsson vs Hoffman

Pretty clear he was not in tune with what was going on with his own team

 

[Cosmix]

I respect your opinion but that does not answer my question at all. All it does it re-hash the endless debate about why he should not have been traded to begin with, but that is in the past and if you want him back I would like to know what you would give up to get him?

You also cannot have it both ways by claiming the trade is a "****stain" unless it nets us Lafreniere, which it very well could but without the trade you do not get Lafreniere so which is it?

“Very well could” is overstated. It should have been “which has a low probability of occurrence”

 

[JungleBeat]

Hope we get smoked in Tampa.

 

[Dingle]

dude didn't even know about karlsson vs Hoffman

Pretty clear he was not in tune with what was going on with his own team

Deabator may be right. We are being hard on Dorion for essentially both options. Thus leaving him in the "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't". The 17/18 team had fan favorite stars and they collapsed.

If you look at his trades out..Many have somewhat failed..Turris is doing poorly. Karlsson is doing poorly...Hoffman is holding steady (although his +/- is poor) ..Stone is doing great, so the exception.....Duchene is doing so-so (mid value offense, in a league that is seeing a scoring increase)..Ceci ..needs a map to find the net

Stone may be the only one earning his contract. Other than Stone, I am not sure that I would reverse any trade.

My issue with Dorion is simple..1) He does not get good returns...I am not as sold on the return on Karlsson as others 2) He became GM in 2016, chief of scouting in 2009...Take a look at the draft since... I do not regard it as good.

It's why I am not overly optimistic about all this talk of a few hundred picks the next few years..1) will they materialize..well, I sure as hell hope he got the all the bad picks out of his system. And as we move forward will he still receive 50 cents on the dollar each time he trades.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

I have really enjoyed the last few losses and am fully on board with the tank. I hope we can keep it rolling and slip in to 2nd before its done.

My passion for Sens hockey is returning. Losing in tank seasons as it moves along is actually pretty exciting.

I was all for Karlsson winning a cup, but obviously that isn't happening this year there, so tank away.

2 of the top 5 or 10 in the draft would go a long way to turning things around much quicker than expected.

I'm excited for all the old guard to leave too. They have been soldiers, but I hope we turn the page on Anderson, Pageau, Boro & Ryan and don't see them back after this year. Obviously Ryan won't be traded, but maybe his situation prevents him from returning.

Sorry but it really bugs me to see Pageau included with 30+ year olds on the wrong side of their prime.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

I suppose my point was to establish that there is no way we would give up anything close to what San Jose gave us to get Karlsson last year. Most people think the package we recieved was terrible yet would anyone at this point give back the 4 players and two picks to San Jose in exchange for Karlsson?

If the answer is no, then we should put an end to the whole "Dorion is ruining the team" rhetoric.

What a ridiculous argument.

The circumstances of the trade 15 months ago were totally different.

 

[Cosmix]

As of now (3 Jan 7:24 pm) here are the standings:
Pos. Team. G. W. L. T Points Lottery % for first pick
26 SJ. 42. 18. 21. 4. 38T. 7.5
27. LA. 42. 17. 21. 4. 38T. 8.7
28 OTT. 41. 16. 20. 5. 37T. 9.5
29 ANA. 41. 16. 20. 5. 37T. 11.5
30. NJ. 40. 15. 19. 6. 36. 13.5
31. DET. 41. 10. 28. 3. 23. 18.5

So, Ottawa with the SJ pick has at best a 20.2% chance (8.7 + 11.5) of winning the lottery for the first draft pick or an 79.8% chance of not getting the first pick.