The 2018 Panthers off-season thread-Petrovic is back

[Brokin]

^Why are we still beating a dead horse about this? Tallon should be fired but apparently he is here until his contract runs out at the end of next season. I'll have to live with that and hope that the committee and McCabe actually have more influence on the final decisions that Viola endorses than Tallon. My nightmare is Viola extending Dale sometime after the 1st of the year because the Cats are 10 games over 500.

Interesting article on how Jeff Vinik hires the best people and let's them do their jobs. Sounds like a Viola clone. GO WEST POINT.

Lightning Owner Jeff Vinik Discusses How He Turned Around a Struggling Franchise

 

[Gentle Man]

Why are we firing Tallon after a good season?

Can't we wait to fire him after a disaster season?

Or hell....I dont know, maybe leave it alone.

 

[Brokin]

Also dont believe it is 100% on DT, but it still doesnt make it better.

Come on, the expansion draft decision was 100% Tallon. It was all about his guys and Viola handed him the keys by saying Tallon has always had the final word on hockey operation decisions. After that brain fart and subsequent roasting by the Canadian talking heads, Tallon could only pray that Dadonov and Vrbata would sign with us to hopefully save some face. Worked out but IMO the leash tightened around Tallon for any future big dollar spending without a favorable vote from the committee.

The Demers move was to create space to add one of the AHL prospects and create Cap space down the road. Had to eat McGinn's contract for 2 years as that was the best deal offered around the league. If they don't move Nick at some point during the off season after showcasing him, they will miss their best window of opportunity.

 

[Brokin]

Why are we firing Tallon after a good season?

Can't we wait to fire him after a disaster season?

Or hell....I dont know, maybe leave it alone.

Let's get real here. The only reason we were even in this thing was Boo elected to run Barkov and Tro into the ground. Almost got us there but Barkov would have been scratched in the 1st series and Tro was depleted. Would have been a quick exit.

Next season will be interesting depending on the moves the team makes over the summer and who wins the open jobs at camp. Lu and Reimer will have to have a stellar year and they better hope they can sign Sateri or a clone to back them up.

 

[SoupyFIN]

Putting garnish on it only makes it somewhat more bearable.

We needed a couple 2nd liners all year last year. Smith and March could have both filled those spots easily.

What happened to Smitty had nothing to do with making room for Weegar. Also dont believe it is 100% on DT, but it still doesnt make it better.

Of course not, but casually suggesting that we should've been able to dump close to 10M in salaries to Vegas is a ludicrous idea and would've cost us a pretty penny. Bye bye Tippett (/1st round pick from last summer) or Borgstrom along with March in that case IMO, which would've been a way bigger blow to our future contending hopes as a budget team.

However there's a case to be made that Demers affected the expansion draft in some way, since we first heard about him being shopped in early June and that was before the expansion draft lists were submitted. So one could argue that had Tallon been able to pull off a Demers trade (with less money coming back than what McGinn is making, which proved to be extremely difficult as shown by the eventual trade) prior to the expansion draft, the list could've looked different. Maybe it would've bought more time to clear the remaining salary off the books and not be so hasty to get rid of Smith.

 

[Gentle Man]

Let's get real here. The only reason we were even in this thing was Boo elected to run Barkov and Tro into the ground. Almost got us there but Barkov would have been scratched in the 1st series and Tro was depleted. Would have been a quick exit.

Next season will be interesting depending on the moves the team makes over the summer and who wins the open jobs at camp. Lu and Reimer will have to have a stellar year and they better hope they can sign Sateri or a clone to back them up.

Oh yeah, had nothing to do with Dadonov pacing to be a 70 point scorer, or Bjugstad setting a career high, or Yandle approaching 60, or Matheson and Ekblad getting better.

Hell, I'd argue Trocheck had a lesser season this year than he did 2 years ago. Or even last year. Scoring isnt everything.

Either way, the last thing this franchise needs is another GM change. Enough with the damn revolving door already. Stick with a coach. Stick with a GM, and lets get some f***ing stability.

 

[Chaos2k7]

Of course not, but casually suggesting that we should've been able to dump close to 10M in salaries to Vegas is a ludicrous idea and would've cost us a pretty penny. Bye bye Tippett (/1st round pick from last summer) or Borgstrom along with March in that case IMO, which would've been a way bigger blow to our future contending hopes as a budget team.

However there's a case to be made that Demers affected the expansion draft in some way, since we first heard about him being shopped in early June and that was before the expansion draft lists were submitted. So one could argue that had Tallon been able to pull off a Demers trade (with less money coming back than what McGinn is making, which proved to be extremely difficult as shown by the eventual trade) prior to the expansion draft, the list could've looked different. Maybe it would've bought more time to clear the remaining salary off the books and not be so hasty to get rid of Smith.

We didnt at all. We dumped 9 million in March Smith and Demers, and took back equal salaries for their replacements: Dadonov, McGinn, and Vrbata.

It wasnt all about slashing salaries for last season anyways.

They wanted Smith gone, and it was always a bit strange to me, as him and Tro were close. They were compatible linemates, and grew up playing hockey together. Perfect match, and they still shipped him out to only end up needing a player of his exact ilk the entire season.

 

[Chaos2k7]

The only thing Demers was blocking was the money for MMs long term extension.

And we still got a servicable roster player from that deal.

Oh and he was almost half the money they "dumped" too at 4.5 million. But March and Smith for a 4th, no other choices available. The moment Tom Rowe called out Smith and then was not fired with the house cleaning, that spelled the end of Smitty, and GMGM held us over the barrel.

DT deserves some blame but not 100%.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

Let's get real here. The only reason we were even in this thing was Boo elected to run Barkov and Tro into the ground. Almost got us there but Barkov would have been scratched in the 1st series and Tro was depleted. Would have been a quick exit.

Next season will be interesting depending on the moves the team makes over the summer and who wins the open jobs at camp. Lu and Reimer will have to have a stellar year and they better hope they can sign Sateri or a clone to back them up.

The only position that really needs an improvement is the 4th line center position. MacK didn't really fail miserably but his age is starting to show and all of the misses on breakaways were brutal. A 30pts scoring, around 30yo center with a 4 year deal from FA or by trading e.g. Hawryluk + misc would have a lot more impact on the end result than trying to upgrade the defense when there's so many teams looking for a similar upgrade themselves.

 

[SoupyFIN]

We didnt at all. We dumped 9 million in March Smith and Demers, and took back equal salaries for their replacements: Dadonov, McGinn, and Vrbata.

It wasnt all about slashing salaries for last season anyways.

They wanted Smith gone, and it was always a bit strange to me, as him and Tro were close. They were compatible linemates, and grew up playing hockey together. Perfect match, and they still shipped him out to only end up needing a player of his exact ilk the entire season.

We didn't at all what, clear salary? Long term, yes we did. Smith & Demers both signed long term, March would've needed a long term extension as well (really doubt we would've traded him while in the middle of a playoff push, so he would've ended up walking for nothing). Dadonov is a short term stop-gap for 3 years, who could end up being a long term solution depending on a few things (his salary request, whether one of the kids has taken his spot by then, etc.), as was Vrbata who obviously didn't end up working out. McGinn's overpaid contract was the price of getting rid of Demers, who has seen his career go a downward trend fast (Yotes were already shopping him midway through the season).

2017-18 with Demers, March & Smith: 12.15M
2018-19 with Demers, March (assuming he gets the same extension here) & Smith: 17.4M (10.4M without March)
2019-20 with Demers, March & Smith: 14.6M (8.6M without March)
2020-2021 with Demers, March & Smith: 12.1M (7.1M without March)

2017-18 with Dadonov, McGinn, Vrbata & Demers salary retention (Demers salary AAV, I can't be bothered to calculate the actual salary): 11.175M
2018-19 with Dadonov, McGinn & Demers salary retention: 7.815
2019-20 with Dadonov & Demers salary retention: 4.162M
2020-21 with Demers salary retention: 562k

The only thing Demers was blocking was the money for MMs long term extension.

And we still got a servicable roster player from that deal.

Oh and he was almost half the money they "dumped" too at 4.5 million. But March and Smith for a 4th, no other choices available. The moment Tom Rowe called out Smith and then was not fired with the house cleaning, that spelled the end of Smitty, and GMGM held us over the barrel.

DT deserves some blame but not 100%.

My point was more of that had the Demers trade happened prior to the expansion draft and with less money coming back (say the trade for Guds that Demers blocked, that would've saved another 3.5M for 2018-19), it might have made clearing Smith's salary less of a priority at the time. So you go past the expansion draft (probably lose Petro or Sceviour in this case, if Smith and March were protected) and see if there's a team in free agency that missed out on some guy & sees Smith as a plan B. Worst case scenario we could've circled back to Vegas and do the same trade anyway.

 

[Brokin]

Oh yeah, had nothing to do with Dadonov pacing to be a 70 point scorer, or Bjugstad setting a career high, or Yandle approaching 60, or Matheson and Ekblad getting better.

Hell, I'd argue Trocheck had a lesser season this year than he did 2 years ago. Or even last year. Scoring isnt everything.

Either way, the last thing this franchise needs is another GM change. Enough with the damn revolving door already. Stick with a coach. Stick with a GM, and lets get some ****ing stability.

What revolving door? Nobody said anything about throwing Mr. Boo out the window just yet. I can tell you if he pulls the same crap with playing those two 21 and 22 minutes a night next season, I will be on the new coach bandwagon in a heartbeat.

 

[Gentle Man]

What revolving door? Nobody said anything about throwing Mr. Boo out the window just yet. I can tell you if he pulls the same crap with playing those two 21 and 22 minutes a night next season, I will be on the new coach bandwagon in a heartbeat.

If you fire Dale now, you have a revolving door.

If you switch coaches again, you have a revolving door. WHICH we have already

 

[Brokin]

If you fire Dale now, you have a revolving door.

If you switch coaches again, you have a revolving door. WHICH we have already

Only if you hire a prominent GM candidate with a track record that would want his own guy. Let's face it with Viola's reputation for meddling, I doubt we would attract strong candidates that would demand their own coach. McCabe would get the job IMO.

 

[Brokin]

The only position that really needs an improvement is the 4th line center position. MacK didn't really fail miserably but his age is starting to show and all of the misses on breakaways were brutal. A 30pts scoring, around 30yo center with a 4 year deal from FA or by trading e.g. Hawryluk + misc would have a lot more impact on the end result than trying to upgrade the defense when there's so many teams looking for a similar upgrade themselves.

All depends on what happens with acquisitions/trades/competition at camp. Like you said, lots of competition from around the league for players that can fill a 4th line C roll. Preds had to bring back Fisher as even with their pedigree it's tough to find those guys. It would shock me if they waive last years captain. I think they let him retire with dignity.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

McCabe would get the job IMO.

I still see Pronger getting the nod. He is basically Tallons shadow on most days, following him around learning the ins and outs. I think McCabe may get promoted but it won't be as GM.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Carolina's owner is talking about culture. I wonder if they screw up and pass on Svechnikov. He's already made bad GM and coach moves.

 

[kerrabria]

Carolina's owner is talking about culture. I wonder if they screw up and pass on Svechnikov. He's already made bad GM and coach moves.

How does that affect the Panthers though? Do you think we have something Montreal would give Svechnikov up for?

 

[GermanPanther]

The only position that really needs an improvement is the 4th line center position. MacK didn't really fail miserably but his age is starting to show and all of the misses on breakaways were brutal. A 30pts scoring, around 30yo center with a 4 year deal from FA or by trading e.g. Hawryluk + misc would have a lot more impact on the end result than trying to upgrade the defense when there's so many teams looking for a similar upgrade themselves.

But it brings me nothing if i have 1 1/2 Top 6 Players with Line chemistry. Be fair 1st Line Chemistry is Barkov/Dadonov and Trocheck/Huberdeau and thats was it for Line chemistry.
But in my sense to get the best and most out of each other, means get 3 Players into one Line, special in the Top Lines on each Team. That they can help and push each other to the max.
Now anyone should tell me how Bjugstad as a WINGMAN in word and meaning, can help and push Barkov.
Sure Bjugstad had a better Year but is a one man show on a Line with two Players. Im not happy that we still dont get the max out of our two Top Lines.

But yes Top4 Top2 Physcial Defensman is a most this Season.

 

[I am not exposed]

Carolina's owner is talking about culture. I wonder if they screw up and pass on Svechnikov. He's already made bad GM and coach moves.

I would be livid if I was Carolina fan and that happened.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

I would be livid if I was Carolina fan and that happened.

I'd be livid in general if I were a Canes fan.

I don't know whats worse, having Brindamour as your coach or Waddell as your GM.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

How does that affect the Panthers though? Do you think we have something Montreal would give Svechnikov up for?

It was more just around the league talk bc this is the only active thread but Montreal getting him would not be good (because they're in our division).

I'd be livid in general if I were a Canes fan.

I don't know whats worse, having Brindamour as your coach or Waddell as your GM.

I'd be nervous, Waddell is the Kevorkian of the NHL. At least Brindamour will have all the players jacked.

 

[Brokin]

I still see Pronger getting the nod. He is basically Tallons shadow on most days, following him around learning the ins and outs. I think McCabe may get promoted but it won't be as GM.

When you are a Senior Advisor to Tallon, I think that's just a title for a guy who is learning the GM ropes. I think Chris approached Dale about the position to learn to be a GM after not moving up the ladder in Player Safety. Parros got the job. I've heard Pronger spends most of his time in St. Louis where he lives but does come to town on occasion. I would expect he is in contact with Tallon by phone and they discuss various happenings on a weekly basis.

Not a fan and I personally hope he takes his wares elsewhere. Pronger is a complete control person and makes no qualms about the fact that he thinks he's the smartest person in every room. He likes to kid with the media but he doesn't have a problem embarrassing them if he thinks a question is out of line. I just can't see a guy like Viola hiring someone that wouldn't listen to his input. I like the "committee" arrangement where they actually look for a consensus of opinion before making the final call.

 

[Brokin]

Carolina's owner is talking about culture. I wonder if they screw up and pass on Svechnikov. He's already made bad GM and coach moves.

From what little I've read about Owner Tom Dundon he sounds like a Viola clone. While Waddell is the general manager, Canes management will be a collaborative effort, Dundon has said often. This is a nice way of saying that Dundon will make the final call.

 

[vendetta]

But it brings me nothing if i have 1 1/2 Top 6 Players with Line chemistry. Be fair 1st Line Chemistry is Barkov/Dadonov and Trocheck/Huberdeau and thats was it for Line chemistry.
But in my sense to get the best and most out of each other, means get 3 Players into one Line, special in the Top Lines on each Team. That they can help and push each other to the max.
Now anyone should tell me how Bjugstad as a WINGMAN in word and meaning, can help and push Barkov.
Sure Bjugstad had a better Year but is a one man show on a Line with two Players. Im not happy that we still dont get the max out of our two Top Lines.

But yes Top4 Top2 Physcial Defensman is a most this Season.

No basically every NHL team runs pairs. And the third forward on each line revolves to whoever is going or hot... and your selling bjugstad short not surprising like u have all year.. he compliments barkvs cycle game extremely well and is the only other forward other than huby that can't maintain it.. also compliments dadanov when he flies the zone early for breakaways as he wins a majority of his board battles at the blue line and can make a play to get the puck to open ice... bjugstad was a great fit on that line so your either biased or watching a different team

 

[GermanPanther]

@vendetra still cant read your post, as i said in the last post i quoted you, that you arguments out of Line.
But since i saw your post while reading not logged in.

Tell me why was the greatest most effective Lines Panthers ever had 3 Way play. 1st Years Fleischmann/Weiss/Versteeg one of the best chemistry 1st line for a while. Also was one Deadly PP.
Hub/Bar/Jagr under Gallant was one of the most feared hard to play against Line. And that was Barkov 2 years ago with an Injury during the Season.

Now you have Dadonov/Barkov and trocheck/Huberdeau and we miss PO. Another great Dou Toews/kane since 3rd Line member must traded away and one gone out of PO. McDavid/Draisaitl no third Linemate out of the PO. Gaudreau/Monahan out of the PO. So i see where your argument had some solid ground the whole League runs with Pairs.

OH by the Way WSH 3 person 1st Line, Winnipeg 3 Person 1st line, Vegas 3 Person 1st Line, jets 1st+nd 3 person line, Pittsburgh Duo (out of PO after 2nd Round) Tampa 3 person chemisty 1st Line.

It must be an miracle that all the Teams, who push and get the max chemistry and Line combination out of their TopLine reach the PO and get far. Must be a true miracle since anyone in the League runs Duo.
I forgot LA 3 person 1st Line over years.
Phi 3 Person 1st Line + 2nd Line
Toronto 1st and 2nd Line chemistry 3 person.
Columbus 1st Line 3 person
Minnesota 1st Line 3 person very effective during regular Season. known for Goals in less SOG

I think i will call the league and say, hey Guys its only allowed to run with Duos then 3 person line Chemisry.

By the Way Years Pantehrs reached PO. 1st Line 3 person Line chemistry. maybe it has something to do with, its harder to focus on 3 player in the O Zone then 2 Players, double Teams the Puck Carrier and game opener, goes the 3rd Person is not serious to take on the Line in chemistry.

By the Way for the you and the other Poster, i saw beside 5-9 Games nearly every Panthers Game Live, from EU that means go to Bed at 4AM. Maybe your not thinked till the end post, hand over Bjugstad skill, was an argument to block your post.

OMG how could i forgot i want denied that, the most effective Time Bjugstad had, was in the Beginning of the Season, the great Line chemistry on 3rd Line. I think i forgot but maybe it was a 3 person Line chemistry. But maybe it was also a Duo, but that was the Beginning of the Season and the Time was long ago.