Prospect Info: The 2017 NHL Entry Draft

[JoemAvs]

What if the Avs had Logan Stanley as their second D after Sergachev, how would the draft D at all costs folks feel? It's very much a possibility that could have happened.

The thing about Chychrun gets back to what I said earlier about not judging guys against their peers that haven't had the same opportunities. He certainly can prove people wrong but he hasn't yet.

Than someone would have to get fired because Stanley was a huge reach. Will never understand why they traded up.

Chychrun received Doughty comparisons in his draft - 1 year and ran into some injury problems in his draft year.

But that year overall was still decent enough to easily go way higher. He just got overscouted and picked apart for the wrong reasons and because he could not live up to the ridiculous hype from the year before.




This to me isn't about proving people wrong but about scouts making a big mistake for the wrong reasons....


Yes ultimately we have to wait for a few years and as I said, Tippett and the Coyotes are doing their best to prove you right but right now it does not look good for the people that made him drop like a rock.

I was second in command on his bandwagon after henchy back then and I have no plans to abandon ship anytime soon .

 

[Foppa2118]

There was another D who played for Tippett and ended up with 11 points in his rookie season that was 48 games. That was his draft +2 year and he turned out pretty damn good, near elite. The offense will be there with Chychrun, and he will be great defensively.

D a lot of times take a while to get going. Ekblad was a man child and a rarity to play a +1 season like that. Jones is already a legit #1D on one of the best teams in the league (a real big part of that team).

I've never waivered on the kid and won't now. I'm confident in how I evaluate players (and have a decent record). This one season isn't where my evaluation comes from. It comes from a much longer timeframe than that.

I think when high drafted D men that are both physically ready and talented enough to play in the NHL right away, it's easier to use their production as an indicator. Someone like OEL, or a lot of other guys who didn't make the NHL right away, didn't for a reason. They're growing into their body, they're not used to the North American game, they're too big a liability defensively.

Generally defenseman have their more productive seasons early on in their career (not necessarily their rookie year like Chychrun) and then as they learn to be more responsible defensively, their production goes down. With some contract years along the way.

The guys who blossom later offensively are usually guys that aren't in the same position as Chychrun. They're guys that were working on other things than offense, in order to make the NHL. They're focused on not being a liability defensively so they could stick, and then they finally find a way to add offense on top of that.

Chychrun may end up as you think, but he's physically, and geologically much better suited for breaking into the NHL than OEL was. He's also just as much a man child as Ekblad was. He's built like Landy was, possibly more so.

 

[McMetal]

I'm looking for comparables in recent drafts to Liljegren. We know that the Reinhart and Siemens types, defensive D with limited puck skills, are a huge risk to take early. Is there anybody in recent memory who projected towards the other end of the spectrum, as a purely offensive D with holes in his own zone, who went that high in the draft? That's uncharted territory.

 

[JoemAvs]

I'm looking for comparables in recent drafts to Liljegren. We know that the Reinhart and Siemens types, defensive D with limited puck skills, are a huge risk to take early. Is there anybody in recent memory who projects towards the other end of the spectrum, as a purely offensive D with holes in his own zone, who went that high in the draft? That's territory.

If you are looking for a smallish offensive D that busted hard, Ryan Murphy is probably your best bet.

He got picked at #12 in 2012. Button had him in his top5 IIRC .
Derrick Pouliot might be the best "bad" comparison.

But aside from that not really.

 

[McMetal]

Not looking necessarily for busts. If there's a comparable that worked out, I'd love to know about it. I just can't think of one.

People have compared Liljegren's potential to Keith, Subban, and Letang in this thread, and that sounds great, but all three of those guys were picked in the second round. It's easy to point to successes like them, but a lot of second round picks never reach nearly that level.

Now I'm not saying Liljegren should fall to the second, but it sounds like historically, teams are hesitant to make that call, and prefer the more well rounded Juolevi, Jones, and Werenski types that high. We should be wary of bucking that trend, especially if the only reason we do it is just because we need defense in the worst way.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Jake Bean, Kylington if he didn't have the personal issues is the comparables IMO.

There haven't been many D picked top 3 in recent years regardless. Hanifin and Jones fell a few spots lower than consensus too.

 

[RockLobster]

Jake Bean, Kylington if he didn't have the personal issues is the comparables IMO.

There haven't been many D picked top 3 in recent years regardless. Hanifin and Jones fell a few spots lower than consensus too.

So Liljegren, who's been described as being able to handle/play physically (among other traits) is comparable to two players who have a weakness at doing that?

I'm with Henchy on this one, at this point his defensive play (while he's not a world beater) is just plain getting underrated.

 

[Ivan13]

So Liljegren, who's been described as being able to handle/play physically (among other traits) is comparable to two players who have a weakness at doing that?

I'm with Henchy on this one, at this point his defensive play (while he's not a world beater) is just plain getting underrated.

Not underrated, vilified without just cause. Bean and Kylington aren't comoarables to him at all. Both are alergic to contact and signigicantly worse than Ljiljegren defensively.

 

[JoemAvs]

Liljegren is a smaller, offensive first D.

People don't really associate good defensive play with that combination.

And most of the time they are right but IMO in this case it is overblown.
Liljegren has been handling himself against men just fine so far from what I have seen.


It will be interesting to see him at the combine and how tall he looks in comparison to other prospects.

I think the perception of him would change alot if he had grown an inch or two over the last year or so.

I doubt that people would question his defensive abilities as much if he were listed as 6ft 2+.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I'm looking for comparables in recent drafts to Liljegren. We know that the Reinhart and Siemens types, defensive D with limited puck skills, are a huge risk to take early. Is there anybody in recent memory who projected towards the other end of the spectrum, as a purely offensive D with holes in his own zone, who went that high in the draft? That's uncharted territory.

liljegren isn't purely offensive D.

 

[Freudian]

If the reports about Liljegren having high hockey IQ are true, then the risk of picking him early is smaller.

I don't care about NHL Central Scouting so them having him 7th among European skaters doesn't bother me.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Maybe, it's certainly possible. I'm not sure either way. Like I said one year isn't enough to define what his carer will be, and he still has another half season to go, but 15 pts would be below some of his comparables. I'm not sure we can say the scouts were categorically wrong about his ceiling yet.

Ekblad for instance put up 39 pts in his draft+1 year. Seth Jones 25 pts and Hannifin 22 pts. None of them have put up 40 pts yet. Jones might be able to this year.

Adam Larsson on the other end of the spectrum put up 18 pts in his draft +2 season, and he's kind of defined himself as more of a defensive defenseman.

chychrun isn't getting much pp time.

chychrun is producing at better rate 5on5 than seth jones and hanifin did on their rookie seasons (or any seasons besides this one for seth). and at pretty much same rate as ekblad did on his rookie season (actually slightly higher as of now). ekblad hasplayer 300 more minutes this season 5on5 and has 1 more point than chychrun.

and chychrun is playing on the 2nd worst scoring 5on5 team in the league... we all know that team is the worst.

 

[dahrougem2]

When in doubt, don't bet against Sweden's track record of developing high-end defensemen expected to be selected in the 1st round lol.