1990*
Guest
Smith's an OK pick, but I don't see a case for him over Reid.
Not over, just a lesser version who can step in if Reid or another of the defensive guys is injured.
Smith's an OK pick, but I don't see a case for him over Reid.
Tom McCarthy - John Cullen - Brian Gionta
Pete Horeck - Willie Marshall - Tommy Williams
Jack McDonald - Radek Bonk - Shorty Green
Ville Peltonen - Walt McKechnie - Arto Javanainen
Rudy Migay, Frank St. Marseille
http://hockeyhistorysis.blogspot.ca/2012/01/meritorious-men-of-1910s.html said:1910s Players Who Possibly Merit the Hall of Fame
Rank Player Seasons Position Score Hall?
22 Harris, Smokey 1911-1925 6 87.8 No
23 Griffis, Si 1902-1919 34 87.0 Yes
24 Rowe, Bobby 1903-1926 37 85.8 No
25 Cook, Lloyd 1913-1925 32 85.4 No
26 LeSueur, Percy 1904-1916 G 85.1 Yes
27 Dunderdale, Tommy 1907-1924 45 85.1 Yes
28 Stanley, Barney 1912-1926 62 83.6 Yes
29 Shore, Hamby 1905-1918 2 83.1 No
30 Laviolette, Jack 1904-1918 17 82.4 Yes
31 Roberts, Gord 1910-1920 6 79.7 Yes
32 Ross, Art 1905-1918 1 78.8 Yes
33 Oatman, Eddie 1910-1926 47 78.8 No
34 Hyland, Harry 1909-1918 7 78.1 Yes
The next group finds eight of 13 players in the Hall of Fame. How many of these deserve to be there? Several at the top of this list were missed by the committee; and all were largely western players, so perhaps that's not a coincidence (though if there is an eastern bias in the membership of the Hall, it's not a large one). But if Si Griffis, Percy LeSueur and Tommy Dunderdale deserve the honour, so do Smokey Harris, Bobby Rowe and Lloyd Cook.
Where do we draw the line here? I would put it under Barney Stanley. While his career strikes me as Hall-worthy, Hamby Shore's really does not. So there the line goes, cutting out (just barely) Jack Laviolette, Gord Roberts, Art Ross and Harry Hyland. Laviolette and Ross certainly got boosts from their hockey activities off the ice, and Roberts and Hyland, while excellent scorers, just don't quite have enough.
1910s Players Who Likely Do Not Merit the Hall of Fame
Rank Player Seasons Position Score Hall?
35 Patrick, Frank 1904-1924 37 76.3 No
36 Loughlin, Clem 1911-1926 32 75.8 No
37 Crawford, Rusty 1911-1926 6 75.3 Yes
38 Smaill, Walter 1905-1918 24 75.0 No
X Rankin, Frank 1911-1915 4 62.1 Yes
X Baker, Hobey 1912-1916 4 60.3 Yes
X Davidson, Scotty 1912-1914 72 55.8 Yes
X McNamara, George 1907-1917 17 47.1 Yes
X Ruttan, Jack 1909-1918 2 46.8 Yes
X Maxwell, Steamer 1910-1915 4 6.7 Yes
With the 324th pick in MLD2010, The Regina Capitals are pleased to select:
Frank Rankin, Rover
- 5'5", 145 lbs
- Inducted into the HHOF in 1961
- SOHA 1st Team All-Star (1910, 1911, 1913)
- SOHA 2nd Team All-Star (1912, 1914, 1915)
- SOHA Scoring Leader (1911, 1913)
- 63 goals in 21 games in SOHA from 1911 through 1915
- 15 goals in 13 SOHA playoff games from 1911 through 1915
- In 7 of 9 seasons, led his team either to the championship or to the finals
As a point of reference, Frank Foyston played two seasons with Rankin where statistics are available. During these two seasons, Foyston scored 29 goals in 12 games (2.42) and 5 in 4 playoff games (1.20); Rankin scored 21 in 10 games (2.10) and 7 in 6 playoff games (1.17).
The only other players of an established value to play in the SOHA during Rankin's career are Alf Skinner (4 goals in 6 games, 0.67) and Harry Meeking (16 goals in 6 games, 2.67)
loh.net said:...He moved to Toronto in 1910 to join the Eaton Athletic Association that had been formed that year by John C. Eaton, president of the eponymous department store. Membership was limited to amateurs and many were imported to Toronto to play for the team. Rankin was one of these imports and was made team captain upon his arrival.
The Eaton Athletic Association won the Ontario Hockey League senior title in 1910-11 and repeated the following year before losing the Allan Cup final to the Winnipeg Victorias. Rankin lead the senior league in goals during the 1910-11 season, scoring 15 times in just four games. His performance earned him a First Team All-Star selection for the second consecutive year.
In 1912-13, Rankin moved uptown to Toronto St. Michael's, a team that lost the OHA final to the Toronto R. and A.A. both that season and the one following. He was chosen as a First Team All-Star for the third time in 1912-13 based on his league-leading 22 goals in five games. Rankin earned a berth on the Second Team All-Star squads in the 1911-12, 1913-14, and 1914-15 seasons before joining the Canadian Armed Forces during World War 1.
Players: The Ultimate A-Z Guide of Everyone Who has Ever Played in the NHL said:One of the finest rovers of his era
Here is a little glimpse into what kind of player Rankin was. He was the captain in every article I could find. He was very strong offensively, and appeared to be a very courageous player who was conscientious defensively, too:
Toronto Sunday World said:Rankin was the fastest skater and best stickhandler on the ice, and scored some nice goals, his shots being well-placed... Rankin rushed all by himself and scored...
Toronto Sunday World said:Rankin seemed to develop condition overnight, and he tore through those easterners like a will o' the wisp, and they kept hitting spots where Frank had been. He shot several goals, some of them under difficult circumstances, netting a couple from the side through a throng of players... Gerard was sent to the fence for tripping Dissette and Rankin accompanied him soon afterwards for slugging... Rankin took the puck and came through the whole team and scored the fourth one unassisted with a bullet-like shot... Dissette shot from the side, but Slack blocked and Rankin knocked it in before he could recover it... Rankin eintercepted the puck from Davidson, rushed and shot. Slack stopped it over his head, but Frank slipped the puck between his feet when it fell to the ice.
Toronto World said:Rankin, after playing a waiting game in the first half, was like a crazy man in this session, and was all over the ice. Nothing could stop him, and he gave Laird dozens of shots that were dead on...
Montreal Gazette said:No wonder Frank Rankin complained of a sore shoulder. The St. Mike's management had an x-ray examination made, and it was ascertained that the shoulder had in fact been dislocated. The fact that he played through the initial half of the first game at Midland in that condition is a tribute to Rankin's pluck.
Toronto World said:Rankin was the only St. Mikes man to really be in the hunt when it came to skating with the speed from the (Winnipeg All-Stars). Frank gave battle back all the way, and netted the only two tallies that fell to the Saints.
Toronto Sunday World said:Frank Rankin netted the first goal of the game by carrying the puck down the east boards and, stickhandling his way through the defense, he went right up to the net and put it past Smith... Torontos could only get their men strung across the ice at rare intervals, for Laflamme, Rankin, Richardson and McCamus never left them for a second with their pestering checking...
Toronto World said:Rankin was the first to be marked. He got a slash over the nose in the first period and had to retire for repairs, but was soon back in the game... Rankin was a better puck carrier and wiggled his way through closer than Stephenson... Rankin opened up a rush, and shoved it across the goal mouth, but Richardson was unable to bat it in with four men checking him. Rankin drew the next penalty for charging Gooch... Rankin's work was more effective than Stephenson's... St. Mikes tore right back and Frank Rankin notched one a minute and a half later when Mccamus shot the puck on ahead, the rubber hitting Heffernan's skate and putting Rankin onside. The Saint rover had no trouble in batting it past McGiffin.
Rankin almost went pro, but never did:
Toronto World said:The Toronto Club have made him a handsme offer and if he makes the jump he will be assured of a hockey job next season that will make him one of the highest salaried men in the NHA.
Player A
NHL: 382 GP, 148 Pts, 0.39 PPG (age 22-35)
IHL/AHL: 132 GP, 140 Pts, 1.06 PPG (age 22-27)
SM-Liiga: 365 GP, 324 Pts, 0.89 PPG (age 19-39)
Swiss: 131 GP, 176 Pts, 1.34 PPG (age 30-32)
Player B
NHL: 407 GP, 159 Pts, 0.39 PPG (age 25-35)
IHL/AHL: 343 GP, 341 Pts, 0.99 PPG (age 22-28)
SM-Liiga: 106 GP, 97 Pts, 0.92 PPG (age 29-30)
Swiss: 183 GP, 216 Pts, 1.18 PPG (age 31-38)
- exact same NHL PPG over almost the exact same sample size at almost the exact ages
- nearly identical AHL/IHL scoring at the exact same age range, the one who scored more did so over a smaller sample
- practically identical Finnish league scoring rates, again the one who scored more did so over a smaller sample
- noticeable difference in swiss league scoring rates, probably fully explained by the ages of each player at the time
can anyone tell who these two players are who are so incredibly statistically similar? They're even only a year apart in age.
Player A
NHL: 382 GP, 148 Pts, 0.39 PPG (age 22-35)
IHL/AHL: 132 GP, 140 Pts, 1.06 PPG (age 22-27)
SM-Liiga: 365 GP, 324 Pts, 0.89 PPG (age 19-39)
Swiss: 131 GP, 176 Pts, 1.34 PPG (age 30-32)
Player B
NHL: 407 GP, 159 Pts, 0.39 PPG (age 25-35)
IHL/AHL: 343 GP, 341 Pts, 0.99 PPG (age 22-28)
SM-Liiga: 106 GP, 97 Pts, 0.92 PPG (age 29-30)
Swiss: 183 GP, 216 Pts, 1.18 PPG (age 31-38)
- exact same NHL PPG over almost the exact same sample size at almost the exact ages
- nearly identical AHL/IHL scoring at the exact same age range, the one who scored more did so over a smaller sample
- practically identical Finnish league scoring rates, again the one who scored more did so over a smaller sample
- noticeable difference in swiss league scoring rates, probably fully explained by the ages of each player at the time
can anyone tell who these two players are who are so incredibly statistically similar? They're even only a year apart in age.
The chart VI provides annually showing Peltonen's scoring "exploits" needs to be updated for the 2010 Olympics. he had 20 points in 30 best-on-best games. the players he most often paired with, Koivu and Selanne, had 31 in 30 and 32 in 29. 1.06 to 1.03 to 0.67 is a massive gap to outscore your linemate by.If you want to remove 2010 because they were all greybeards, it was 1.30 and 1.21 to 0.79. And while I don't doubt Peltonen did a good job as the worker bee of the line, it's hard to deny that offensively, he was a passenger, in a big way. Peltonen was just very fortunate to be seen as the best LW option for Finland four times in a best-on-best, which he'd have never received had he been born in Canada, USA, Russia, Sweden, the Czech Republic, or even Slovakia. And indeed, if Glenn Metroplit was Finnish, being the type of player he was in terms of skill and skillset, if he was a LW it's not hard to imagine him being the Peltonen for Finland's top line a few times.
I just need to comment on the Finnish lines. In Nagano IIRC in first couple of games Peltonen played with Selänne and Koivu. Atleast to the quarter final they raised Lehtinen on that line to replace Peltonen. That line just never really worked. For the Bronze game they formed back the old Huey, Dewey, and Louie because Selänne was out of that game.
In 1996 they still used Lehtinen-Koivu-Peltonen. Selänne played with atleast Juha Ylönen and Juha Riihijärvi.
In 2004 World Cup Peltonen played mostly with Olli Jokinen and Tuomo Ruutu.
In Torino he was with Olli and Jussi Jokinen. That was the second line for the whole tournament.
In 2010 he played atleast with Jarkko Ruutu and with several centers, but not with Koivu.
Thank you Sanf. I'm glad there's someone out there who remembers line combinations of other countries. I sure don't, except for most of Canada's, and I was just going by what I thought had been said before on this board. VI says that Peltonen was frequently "top six" not "top line", so fair enough.
Peltonen does not appear to have been a "passenger" offensively with the players that he played with according to the above. That's good for him at least. However, most of the guys you mentioned finished their careers with better scoring numbers in best on best tournaments (at least those with full careers to speak of).
Also, as a Canadian or American he would never even play in a best on best tournament; he'd be a 3rd liner at best for the Czechs in his career, and it's debatable whether he'd make Russia or Sweden on a 4th line in 96 or 98 (he'd have to beat out guys like Zelepukin, who was a better NHLer than he was, and Mikael Andersson, who was about as good) but he would not have a hope at either team (or the others) in 2006 or 2010. His scoring stats in these tournaments are dependent on him being there, and that's a completely situational factor, not necessarily a symptom of being a great player.
And hey, you're not who I'm arguing with here, I'm just continuing my point. Thank you for the clarification.
So the Peltonen pick is the worst pick of all time? OF ALL TIME!