The 2015 B Draft (Open Edition) has ended.

[seventieslord]

I think Dawson's 2nd line could benefit from a playmaking winger that is solid defensively - Nelson Emerson, RW/C.

he's definitely in my top few guys available right now, but it's not like that line needed a defensive guy, it already has Steen, we could go balls out for offense on the right side.

 

[seventieslord]

well, the emerson pick came in first, so he goes to Dawson, but it's dawson that needs dorey, so let's postpone that one till their next turn. anyone here to pick for praha?

 

[MadArcand]

Weren't there two consecutive Prague picks before I picked Emerson anyway?

 

[VanIslander]

well, the emerson pick came in first, so he goes to Dawson, but it's dawson that needs dorey, so let's postpone that one till their next turn. anyone here to pick for praha?

We don't do that. Either: wait around until the team is up (as I've waited hours), or else post for the other team.

Let's not change rule #1 unilaterally when it has defined this draft and the last one.

 

[chaosrevolver]

Praha selects a defender who played over 1000 games, recorded over 400 points and averaged almost 22:00 TOI/G. D - Patrice Brisebois

- 6’2â€, 197 lbs
- Stanley Cup (1993)
- Averaged 21 minutes per game for 1009 games for average teams
- Top-3 on team in TOI 12 seasons (1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd)
- Best defense points percentages: 65, 61, 57, 56, 56, 54
- Spent 51% of the time on his teams’ above average PP and 32% on above average PK

As a relatively small defensemen, Brisebois understood in his junior days that he would have to rely on his attacking and puckhandling skills to get noticed. An admirer of top offensive blueliners like Paul Coffey and Ray Bourque, he tried to imitate their style… by 1992-93 the Habs were convinced the flashy defenseman was ready for full time work on the big team… Since then Brisebois has been a regular for the Canadiens, posting 10 seasons of 20 or more assists. In spite of his success as a homegrown player, Brisebois hasn’t always found it easy in Montreal. Being a local French Canadian can add pressure to playing for the Canadiens, and when a soft defensive zone is as noticeable as the offensive tablet, evenings at the rink can be long. Brisebois’ strength is his ability to move the puck and make a good, crisp pass. Able to join the attack at any time, he also has a low, hard drive from the point, useful on the PP. His defensive play isn’t always as strong as it should be, moreover, his decision-making in his own end can get him into trouble… he became the target of Montreal boo-birds, but injuries and his sizeable contract made dealing him away nearly impossible. When Bob Gainey became the Habs’ GM in 2003, he defended the beleaguered player, admonishing Montreal fans for booing a loyal soldier.

Rest of Bio -> http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=74079477&postcount=176

 

[chaosrevolver]

They were both Dawson picks anyway. So it's all good. They get Emerson and Dorey.

 

[seventieslord]

Weren't there two consecutive Prague picks before I picked Emerson anyway?

yeah. it's a snake draft with two teams.

We don't do that. Either: wait around until the team is up (as I've waited hours), or else post for the other team.

Let's not change rule #1 unilaterally when it has defined this draft and the last one.

and this would violate or change that rule how?

I was entering the Dorey pick before Madarcand was even in the thread, and the pick was meant for that team. i could delete and reselect, but is that really necessary?

anyway, doesn't matter now.

 

[seventieslord]

Praha selects hal Winkler, G. Winkler enjoyed a long and successful career in the multi-league era and was a 1923 1st team all-star.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=35216541&postcount=752

- WCHL 1st Team All-Star (1923)
- record of 183-144-47 in various leagues in an 18-year career (MHL Sr, WCHL, NHL)

Hal Winkler, G: Winkler spent five seasons in the best senior league before the WCHL opened shop in 1921. He then spend five season with Edmonton and Calgary, leading the league in GAA in 1921/22 and being named First Team All-Star in 1923. He played in the NHL for two seasons, and finished his career with three seasons in the minors. In 1927/28, he led the AHA in GAA with a mark of 0.98, which was 36% better than the #2 figure, which was also recorded by an ex-WCHL player.

We have save percentage data for two of his seasons. In 1917/18 in the MHL, he recorded a mark which was 100 points better than the second-best, recorded by another goalie who would also play int he WCHL. In 1927/28, he was fourth in the NHL in save percentage, trailing only three Hall of Famers.

 

[VanIslander]

LTC Praha selects a defenseman I remember vividly and profiled over 7 years ago (after a AAA draft):

"Big" Willie Huber​

Was NHL's tallest and heaviest player throughout most of his playing career, and was tallest player in N.Y. Rangers history at the time he played for team​

Blessed with exceptional hands and skating ability, Huber was amongst the league's highest goal-scoring defenders in the early 1980s, and a fixture on the Detroit powerplay. While he was also solid in his own zone, fans often - unfairly - expected him to be a nasty physical presence, which didn't come as naturally to him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Huber

321 points in 655 NHL games with 950 PIM. In NHL All-Star Game (1983).

In his 10-year NHL career his first five were his best:

1978-79 Detroit Red Wings NHL 68 7 24 31 114
1979-80 Detroit Red Wings NHL 76 17 23 40 164
1980-81 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 15 34 49 130
1981-82 Detroit Red Wings NHL 74 15 30 45 98
1982-83 Detroit Red Wings NHL 74 14 29 43 106

won the Memorial Cup in 1976... one of the top defensemen in the OHA.... Huber was chosen in the 1st round, 9th overall, by the Detroit Red Wings in the 1978 NHL Amateur Draft. During his rookie season he played in 68 games, scoring seven goals and 31 points. He played in Detroit for five seasons in total, surpassing the 40-point plateau during the last four years. However, a nasty dispute arose between Huber and Wings general manager Jimmy Devellano during the offseason, which resulted in Huber calling the GM "a liar." Huber was sent to the New York Rangers..

http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=13022

 

[seventieslord]

Praha needs two "pure" defensive defensemen badly.

 

[seventieslord]

Dawson selects a defenseman I profiled over 7 years ago (after a AAA draft):

[/QUOTE]

24 minutes a game in his career. He was pretty heavily relied on by some really bad teams (15% below average, a rare mark for a 1980s player)

decent PP option at this level, but really just an all-around minute muncher with size and perhaps unfairly seen as having unfulfilled potential.

 

[seventieslord]

OK, he's fallen far enough. Praha selects Bob Rouse, D. 19.38 minutes per game isn't great, but that was over a really long career of 1008 games, and he never played on the power play. Rouse was a consummate tough, defensive defenseman and helped teams to the 3rd round or beyond six seasons in a row (1993-1998).

- 6'2", 220 lbs
- 19.38 minutes per game for 1008 games for teams 3% better than average (no PP time whatsoever, 23 career PPP)
- 20.88 minutes per game in 9-season prime (1986-1994)
- killed 41% of penalties for teams 7% better than average
- 137 NHL fights (27-20-20)
- 136 playoff games

 

[VanIslander]

OK, he's fallen far enough. Praha selects Bob Rouse, D. 19.38 minutes per game isn't great, but that was over a really long career of 1008 games, and he never played on the power play. Rouse was a consummate tough, defensive defenseman and helped teams to the 3rd round or beyond six seasons in a row (1993-1998).

As per the simple and straightforward rules, he goes to Dawson City. He's the 5th drafted dman to start the third pairing.

 

[VanIslander]

Dawson City selects Ville Peltonen, a winger who has shined in a top-6 role internationally, but was more of a third liner later in his career when in the NHL, though he played all lines in Florida. He is a 4-time Olympic medalist, three-time world championship all-star and Finland's all-time leader in points in international play, including several clutch goals, leadership and two-way play. He captained the Finns to the final of the 2004 World Cup where Canada edged them by a single goal. He struggled in the Dead Puck Era NHL, but returned in the new NHL as a fast-skating role player, with 148 points in 382 NHL games.

Skates well, and oozes offensive creativity and puck poise. Owns a wealth of experience at all levels. Is solid at both ends of the ice.

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.cgi?1539

All other of the top-40 on the following list have been drafted:

All Time Top Scorers In Best-On-Best Tournaments

Rank | Player | Pos. | Nationality | Career | Tournaments | GP | G | A | Pts | Pim
1| Wayne Gretzky |C|CAN|1981-1998|6|45|20|48|68|12
2| Mats Sundin |C|SWE|1991-2006|6|30|18|20|38|38
3| Teemu Selänne |RW|FIN|1991-2006|6|33|18|17|35|20
4| Sergei Makarov |RW|SOV|1981-1987|3|22|16|15|31|12
5| Brett Hull |RW|USA|1991-2004|5|27|14|17|31|12
6| Mike Modano |C|USA|1991-2006|6|36|8|23|31|16
7| Paul Coffey |D|CAN|1984-1996|4|33|6|25|31|24
8| Vladimir Krutov |LW|SOV|1981-1987|3|22|14|16|30|18
9| Mario Lemieux |C|CAN|1987-2004|3|20|14|15|29|10
10| Saku Koivu |C|FIN|1996-2006|4|24|9|20|29|22
11| Daniel Alfredsson |RW|SWE|1996-2006|5|24|8|18|26|12
12| Mark Messier |C|CAN|1984-1996|4|32|6|20|26|36
13| Jere Lehtinen |LW/RW|FIN|1996-2006|5|28|11|14|25|6
14| Joe Sakic |C|CAN|1996-2006|5|30|12|11|23|12
15| Alexei Kasatonov |D|SOV|1981-1991|4|27|3|19|22|20
16| Jaromir Jagr |RW|CSK/CZE|1991-2006|6|31|8|13|21|16
17| Mike Bossy |RW|CAN|1981-1984|2|15|13|7|20|4
18| Phil Esposito |C|CAN|1972-1976|2|15|11|9|20|15
19| Sergei Fedorov |C|SOV/RUS|1991-2002|4|22|8|12|20|20
20| Nicklas Lidström |D|SWE|1991-2006|6|30|8|12|20|10
21| Ray Bourque |D|CAN|1981-1998|4|30|4|16|20|28
22| Alexander Yakushev |LW|SOV|1972-1974|2|15|12|7|19|6
23| Gilbert Perreault |C|CAN|1972-1981|3|13|8|11|19|4
24| Ville Peltonen |LW|FIN|1996-2006|4|24|8|11|19|14
25| Peter Forsberg |C|SWE|1996-2006|4|18|3|16|19|12
26| Brian Leetch |D|USA|1991-2004|5|29|2|17|19|12
27| John LeClair |LW|USA|1996-2002|3|17|12|6|18|10
28| Alexander Maltsev |C/RW|SOV|1972-1981|4|25|8|10|18|6
29| Igor Larionov |C|SOV/RUS|1981-2002|5|32|6|12|18|26
30| Bobby Hull |LW|CAN|1974-1976|2|15|12|5|17|2
31| Eric Lindros |C|CAN|1991-2002|4|28|9|8|17|28
32| Theoren Fleury |RW|CAN|1991-2002|4|27|6|11|17|28
33| Alexei Yashin |C|RUS|1996-2006|5|29|6|11|17|14
34| Chris Chelios |D|USA|1984-2006|8|47|4|13|17|32
35| Guy Lafleur |RW|CAN|1976-1981|2|14|3|14|17|12
36| Kent Nilsson |C|SWE|1981-1987|3|19|3|14|17|8
37| Viacheslav Fetisov |D|SOV/RUS|1981-1996|3|20|3|14|17|31
38| Keith Tkachuk |LW|USA|1996-2006|5|26|12|4|16|83
39| Alexei Kovalev |RW|RUS|1996-2006|4|23|11|5|16|20
40| Michel Goulet |LW|CAN|1984-1987|2|16|7|9|16|0

 

[seventieslord]

As per the simple and straightforward rules, he goes to Dawson City. He's the 6th drafted dman alongside Slegr.

you missed winkler. doesn't change what you said about rouse, but it does change where you think you drafted Huber to... and also your annual lipsticked pig experiment (I actually called it a minute before you posted!)

...and you've listed Rouse on praha's roster anyway... I'm lost now.

 

[seventieslord]

ok, i edited the roster, I think it's all fixed now.

 

[VanIslander]

Thanks.

All fixed.

LTC Praha is up.

They need a coach, a 4th line center and winger (either side) and third line pairing (both sides).

 

[Rob Scuderi]

For Praha's defensive-minded defenseman needs, I'll select Tom Reid. Average 22.58 minutes per game for the 701 games he played, almost all of that came at ES or on the PK with 21.92 ES+PK minutes per game. He garnered some all-star team voting attention in one season, finishing 10th in voting. His career was cut short from a persistent (and undiagnosed) allergic reaction to dyes used in jerseys.

North Stars figure he can become one of league's top defenders...Can play either side on defense...Has good size and is a better than average skater...Moves the puck well and likes to carry it out of his own end...A hitter, he accumulated 107 penalty minutes last year, easily the highest total of his career.

A defensive specialist in the style of all-star Bill White...One of the league's top shot-blockers, and he has all the bruises to prove it...

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=77222975&postcount=272

 

[Rob Scuderi]

There is definitly some weird stuff going on. Sterner goes in the A (even with what ifs hes better than that) and Steen goes in the B.


And no Im not concerned because they are swedes. They just happen to be the glaring "mistakes" that Ive seen when Ive popped by. In case anyone was going to pull that card.

Homer

It makes me sad that Sterner was still out there, I would have picked him first in the AA (okay maybe second since I wanted to research Kuhnhackl). Instead I missed him totally. He's an MLD spare/AAA scoring liner for me, but I can see if someone would make a meal out of his unsuccessful stint in North America.

FWIW, I don't understand why Sterner and some undrafted Swedish players go after never-weres from USSR or CSSR. You still have more Swedes out there that absolutely should have been picked this far, but since their teams didn't win as much they seem to be overlooked. I see a Swedish forward who finished top 10 in WC scoring five times, one who finished top 10 four times, and a final one who did it three times. Framing their candidacy that way avoids all the messiness that is trying to crunch domestic scoring tables with the different schedules.

 

[Sanf]

...Wait, you picked Lalli Partinen while under the impression Jerry Korab was available?

I think you are being pretty hard on this one. There probably is misinformation about him being a best player in some tournament. And if you try to google Lalli Partinen you probably will find Finnish articles praising him. Like I said he has sort of legendary status in here. So you very well might think that he was better player than he actually was.

And Javanainens goal scoring records in Finland are almost Gretzky like. Never going to get beaten. So you can create a stat based argument on him.

I would say that they weren´t the best available even from Finns, but I can very well understand why someone would try to pick them.

And agree everything said about Sterner.

And like the Hal Winkler pick. He really had quite outstanding "amateur" career before he went to WCHL. Don´t have my "Hal Winkler file" in this computer but couple of quotes.

The Morning Leader - Nov 21, 1919

For goal there is Winkler, an inhuman goalkeeper...

The Morning Leader - Dec 18, 1919

Hal Winkler,their goalkeeper, is one of the very best in the game today. He stood between nets when Ypres team went down to Toronto two years ago to meet the Kitchener team. His work at that time was nothing short of miraculous.

 

[Hobnobs]

Homer

It makes me sad that Sterner was still out there, I would have picked him first in the AA (okay maybe second since I wanted to research Kuhnhackl). Instead I missed him totally. He's an MLD spare/AAA scoring liner for me, but I can see if someone would make a meal out of his unsuccessful stint in North America.

FWIW, I don't understand why Sterner and some undrafted Swedish players go after never-weres from USSR or CSSR. You still have more Swedes out there that absolutely should have been picked this far, but since their teams didn't win as much they seem to be overlooked. I see a Swedish forward who finished top 10 in WC scoring five times, one who finished top 10 four times, and a final one who did it three times. Framing their candidacy that way avoids all the messiness that is trying to crunch domestic scoring tables with the different schedules.

I dont even see Sterners time in NA as a failure. He did very well and were praised by people like Emile Francis, Camille Henry and Fred Shero (yes Seventies Im still looking for quotes and stuff).

 

[seventieslord]

It seems sterner is more highly regarded than his Swedish league and international scoring finishes would warrant, though. Or is that inaccurate? If that's accurate, then what is it about him that gives him that elevated status relative to other undrafted Swedes?

 

[Rob Scuderi]

It seems sterner is more highly regarded than his Swedish league and international scoring finishes would warrant, though. Or is that inaccurate? If that's accurate, then what is it about him that gives him that elevated status relative to other undrafted Swedes?

What do you mean? I analyzed Swedish scorers in international tournaments a year or two ago. Nils Nilsson is the guy who should have been drafted awhile ago, despite era concerns. Tord Lundstrom should also be drafted imo, but Sterner's international scoring record is more impressive with the top 5 finishes over four top 10 finishes.

Analysis of Swedish forwards in international competitions

|Intl Pts|Intl GP|PPG|Best Intl Finishes
Sven Tumba|119|97|1.23|1, 1, 1, 4, 5, 6, 7
Nils Nilsson|87|63|1.38|1, 2, 6, 7, 9
Tord Lundstrom|81|91|0.89|6, 6, 6, 8
Ulf Sterner|85|86|0.99|1, 3, 4
Hakan Loob|60|60|1.00|2, 4, 5
Ronald Pettersson|85|91|0.93|2, 6, 10
Mats Ahlberg|73|73|1.00|3, 10, 10
Roland Eriksson|40|53|0.75|3, 9
Thomas Rundqvist|64|111|0.58|4, 9
Lars-Eric Lundvall|50|65|0.77|6
Willy Lindstrom|15|17|0.88|6
Jorgen Jonsson|59|127|0.46|
Pelle Eklund|36|63|0.57|

I don't see anything undercutting his reputation there relative to other Swedes, or do you disagree?

In terms of his domestic stats, I'm not sure what you have. I started putting less stock in Swedish league scoring tables because of the messed up schedule they play. Few of the players in the same scoring table are an apples to apples comparison. I can tell you that as Sterner didn't play for either Djugarden or Brynas, he's going to be systematically disadvantaged.

 

[seventieslord]

If there's interest in the C draft, I'm gonna run it. I have an idea. It complicates things a little more (for me) but it will result in a better product, yet it follows almost the exact same format we're following now.

 

[seventieslord]

We really need to agree upon some sort of adjusted method of looking at international scoring starts, eh? Some eras are much more important than others, and even within the important era, there are seasons that are out of whack (68,72 I believe) to the point where rolling all starts into one career number may be too reductionist.

Looking at the time frames of those stats, no, I can't say it's such a sure thing that Nilsson should have been taken long ago.