Prospect Info: The 2013 NHL Entry Draft [Part VI] From Here To Eternity: 18 Days To The NHL Draft

[Carlzner]

He still is one of the best defensemen in the league.

Serious post?

 

[Freudian]

I think Bouwmeester and Brent Sutter was a very bad combination. He looked much better this season when he was just asked to do his thing.

I think he'll be a real asset for Blues going forward.

 

[Carlzner]

I think Bouwmeester and Brent Sutter was a very bad combination. He looked much better this season when he was just asked to do his thing.

I think he'll be a real asset for Blues going forward.

Well... yeah. He looked much better when he wasn't relied on as a top-2 defenseman on a team.

 

[tucker3434]

Am I the only one that's torn 50-50? I think both will be great. I'll be happy with either. If I had to stake my career on it (pracey), I'd probably pick Mac. But for whatever reason, I'd pick jones. If that makes any sense. I guess I feel like Mac is the safer pick but, if jones works out, he'll have the bigger impact.

 

[Avs71]

Well... yeah. He looked much better when he wasn't relied on as a top-2 defenseman on a team.

What?

 

[RockLobster]

Good god this draft can't come soon enough. It's the same arguments re-hashed every few days. I trust the Avs to make the right decision and I'm really OK with any of the top 3 guys, although if we're taking Drouin I'd prefer a trade down.

I'm interested in what other moves can be made at the draft. Dumping some of the dead weight we have or upgrading the blueline or wing position via trade would be a great start for Sakic and Roy and I bet they want to make a splash.

Yeah, I agree on this, I'm almost more interested in seeing what, if any, trades Sakic & Roy make at the Draft.

For what it's worth on Dater's latest podcast, I believe he said that he "guaranteed" that the Avs make move or 2 at the draft. He specifically believes that O'Brien is gone, won't be back with the team next season.

 

[UncleRisto]

Doing no moves and entering the season with the same team that finished 29th would not look that good for the new FO that wants to bring the team back to glory once again so I think at least one trade or a signing is a given.

 

[R S]

It seems like Nathan MacKinnon has the majority vote amongst this board now, very interesting. Not that surprising with his strong finish to the year.

I think I will be surprised if the Avalanche do end up taking MacKinnon but will also be very interested to watch what ideas they have surrounding the defense. Honestly I do believe Tyson Barrie and Stefan Elliott are going to have big seasons in 2014, but leaving things to chance could spell disaster.

Really? Not sure if that's actually true or not.

 

[Avs For Life]

Yeah, I agree on this, I'm almost more interested in seeing what, if any, trades Sakic & Roy make at the Draft.

For what it's worth on Dater's latest podcast, I believe he said that he "guaranteed" that the Avs make move or 2 at the draft. He specifically believes that O'Brien is gone, won't be back with the team next season.

I heard that as well. I would love to see us try to move back up in the the first somewhere and make another splash. I would absolutely love it if we could take a forward and dman both in the first as we need size up front and we all know where our D is...

What that would take...Im not sure.

 

[Foppa Frossa]

Would you rather have #1, #6 or #1 and O'Reilly? Seems like if we didn't have O'Reilly it would be much more likely that we pick Mac.

 

[S E P H]

Really? Not sure if that's actually true or not.

Yeah I agree with you, this is how I see it;

40% - Jones
30% - MacKinnon
29% - Doesn't matter who we get
0.9% - Drouin
0.1% - Nichushkin

 

[Avs For Life]

Would you rather have #1, #6 or #1 and O'Reilly? Seems like if we didn't have O'Reilly it would be much more likely that we pick Mac.

You are probably right, however I think that ROR is quite the asset that many are underrating. I think he is better offensively than people realize and we all know how good he can be defensively. Plus he has a great chemistry with Landy and hopefully with Downie again.

I think I would rather have ROR than #6 for a lower cap hit though. Avs really screwed that up.

 

[Avs For Life]

Yeah I agree with you, this is how I see it;

40% - Jones
30% - MacKinnon
29% - Doesn't matter who we get
0.9% - Drouin
0.1% - Nichushkin

I would say this looks pretty accurate.

I fall in the 29%. Im good with either but I would like the Avs to have a plan in place to fill the other hole that wasnt filled by the draft pick. Our biggest holes being D and top 6 wing.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Am I the only one that's torn 50-50? I think both will be great. I'll be happy with either. If I had to stake my career on it (pracey), I'd probably pick Mac. But for whatever reason, I'd pick jones. If that makes any sense. I guess I feel like Mac is the safer pick but, if jones works out, he'll have the bigger impact.

Nope, you're not. I really like Mackinnon as well as Jones. Both players are going to be very special so I really don't mind who we take.



One thing I will say about those in the Jones camp though, is that some of them are taking the idea of Jones filling a need way to far. At the end of the day the Avs will for sure go BPA with there pick. Need has nothing to do with it even if the difference between Mack and Jones is considered extremely small. If the Avs feel Mack is the BPA even by the smallest of margins, that's who they should take. Likewise if they feel Jones is the BPA by the smallest of margins.


At the same time. The Mack supporters on here are taking the EJ comparison idea way to far as well. Every single draft is different. And no to players are alike. Comparing Jones to EJ is simply wrong. They aren't the same players, they aren't even similar players(One dominated because of his size, the other because of his skating and smarts).


For me, rather then get into the childish bicker that some(Not all) have started to do, I have just stayed out of it, and will continue to know that the Avs will take BPA, whoever they decide that is.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Would you rather have #1, #6 or #1 and O'Reilly? Seems like if we didn't have O'Reilly it would be much more likely that we pick Mac.

No way Calgary would be #6 with O'Reilly and Iggy and others.

Anyway, I think ROR > #6 pick.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

No way Calgary would be #6 with O'Reilly and Iggy and others.

Anyway, I think ROR > #6 pick.

I agree that with ROR the Flames wouldn't have the #6 pick, probably in the 9-12 range.



BUT, The Flames weren't getting ROR at all in that Offersheet fiasco. Remember the whole Waivers thing. There wouldn't have been a chance in hell that ROR would go unclaimed through all 29 other teams and Calgary would have kept him.



If things had went Ideally in that ordeal. The Avs could have made a deal with CBJ(They were in last at the time) and gotten a 1st from them + prospect, and still also gotten the 1st and 3rd from CGY. While CBJ would have ended up the team with ROR.



If the Avs had known about the waiver loophole before matching the offersheet. We could have potentially come out with something like CGY 1st + 3rd, and LAK 1st + Brassard for ex.


The idea of having say the #6, #26, # 66 and Brassard for ROR would have been something else though.


We would have had a real good shot at making an offer for a 2nd Top 3 pick then.

 

[Avs For Life]

Am I the only one that's torn 50-50? I think both will be great. I'll be happy with either. If I had to stake my career on it (pracey), I'd probably pick Mac. But for whatever reason, I'd pick jones. If that makes any sense. I guess I feel like Mac is the safer pick but, if jones works out, he'll have the bigger impact.

You are definitely not. I keep picturing two scenarios.

I picture the dynamic offense we would have with Mack, Duchene, Landy, PAP, and ROR/Staz. It would really be something to watch and I think it would extremely exciting and our PP could be just ridiculous.

Then I picture what Jones could bring to the team. Solid defensive play, great outlet passes, and a QB on the PP which is something we sorely need. His shot and offensive ability in addition to his defensive ability would improve our defense and offense.

It seriously makes me want both of them. That said I dont want to see Duchene or Landy leave this team so acquiring both of them is out of the question.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I agree that with ROR the Flames wouldn't have the #6 pick, probably in the 9-12 range.



BUT, The Flames weren't getting ROR at all in that Offersheet fiasco. Remember the whole Waivers thing. There wouldn't have been a chance in hell that ROR would go unclaimed through all 29 other teams and Calgary would have kept him.



If things had went Ideally in that ordeal. The Avs could have made a deal with CBJ(They were in last at the time) and gotten a 1st from them + prospect, and still also gotten the 1st and 3rd from CGY. While CBJ would have ended up the team with ROR.



If the Avs had known about the waiver loophole before matching the offersheet. We could have potentially come out with something like CGY 1st + 3rd, and LAK 1st + Brassard for ex.


The idea of having say the #6, #26, # 66 and Brassard for ROR would have been something else though.


We would have had a real good shot at making an offer for a 2nd Top 3 pick then.

True, but Avalanche didn't know this. That's too bad!

 

[Ivan13]

Well... yeah. He looked much better when he wasn't relied on as a top-2 defenseman on a team.

Not sure if serious.

And as AJ said JBo is one of the best defensive defensemen in the NHL.

 

[Mr Serious]

Do you all think that the Avs didn't know about Factor having to clear waivers once he signed the offer sheet? It sounded like few knew about it.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Not sure if serious.

And as AJ said JBo is one of the best defensive defensemen in the NHL.

I would like to see meaner JBo though.

 

[Ivan13]

I would like to see meaner JBo though.

Not really a big deal in my mind.

 

[nanzenkills]

I was commenting on a general sentiment, i.e. defensemen should not be drafted with high picks because they are more difficult to project. EJ is the comparison instead of Drew Doughty because EJ was a #1 pick and no other reason.

IMO, teams have to make their projections irregardless of the degrees of difficulty of drafting different positions. In other words, they shouldn't grade defensemen lower because they are riskier, another common sentiment in these boards.

If a defensemen is projected as the most valuable player in the draft, that defensemen should be the pick. I'm talking hypothetically here, not necessarily about Jones.

If the Avs believe MacKinnon will be the most valuable player in the draft when all is said and done, MacKinnon should be the pick.

But these should not be the reasons he is the pick: Forwards are safer, defensemen drafted #1 overall don't have a great history of success, etc.

BTW, while I don't think it should be held up as an excuse for EJ, the golf cart accident had an obvious negative impact on his development. It's a fair thing to bring up when discussing his career.

You make a good point, to take the player who projects to be the best, but ultimately, history has shown that projecting forwards is much more reliable than projecting defensemen.

When was the last time a #1 overall forward pick failed to become a star? You'd have to go back almost 15 years to Patrik Stefan in 1999 to find one that failed in that respect. Every forward picked #1 since then has become a legitimate star in the NHL. In addition to that, in the time frame referenced, even in the years where a forward was not picked #1 overall, the first forward chosen in those drafts has become a legitimate star in all of those years, with the possible exception of 2006 if you don't consider Jordan Staal to be a star.

By contrast, when was the last time a #1 overall picked defenseman was nominated for the Norris Trophy? You'd have to go all the way back to 1973 with Denis Potvin. That means every Norris Trophy nominee that we've had in the 40 years since then was picked lower than #1.

I think we would all be in agreement that a Norris Trophy-nominated defenseman is worth a first overall pick, so it goes to show how unreliable projecting defensemen can be.

If Seth Jones was already playing at a Norris nominee-caliber level right now, then of course I think we should pick him. But since he isn't at that level yet and a fair amount of projection is involved with him, I think we should take MacKinnon, who is almost a sure bet to be a star forward, and address our defense in later rounds or outside the draft.

 

[nanzenkills]

I agree that with ROR the Flames wouldn't have the #6 pick, probably in the 9-12 range.



BUT, The Flames weren't getting ROR at all in that Offersheet fiasco. Remember the whole Waivers thing. There wouldn't have been a chance in hell that ROR would go unclaimed through all 29 other teams and Calgary would have kept him.



If things had went Ideally in that ordeal. The Avs could have made a deal with CBJ(They were in last at the time) and gotten a 1st from them + prospect, and still also gotten the 1st and 3rd from CGY. While CBJ would have ended up the team with ROR.



If the Avs had known about the waiver loophole before matching the offersheet. We could have potentially come out with something like CGY 1st + 3rd, and LAK 1st + Brassard for ex.


The idea of having say the #6, #26, # 66 and Brassard for ROR would have been something else though.


We would have had a real good shot at making an offer for a 2nd Top 3 pick then.

I'm pretty sure that the league would have voided at least one of the parts of that deal. No way that they let a team exploiting a loophole double dip like that, especially with nothing tangible going directly from Colorado to Columbus.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

This whole "#1 overall d-men always FAILZ" argument is getting beyond annoying. Like a broken record.

The sad part is, if Florida had won the lottery and picked Mac and we took Jones at #2, nobody would even say a word about it.

What the hell difference does it make if he's picked 1st or 2nd overall, if he's our guy he's our guy.

If not, then fine, Mac is our guy. Just please stop with this nonsense.