Teuvo Teravainen
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BK
"Goalie Apologist"
Not at all actually.
Q/Babcock/Sutter in today's game are the elite coaches and Bowman/Arbor are some of the elite coaches of the past. The don't think on the level as Gretzky or Mario but what they do know is how to push the right buttons, put the teams in the right systems, and players in the right places. The best coaches put the players where they need to be and then let them play (there are other things as well).
There is a huge difference between the two.
pvr
Leather Skates
- Jan 22, 2008
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I'm not the one making the absurd statement "a lot of times elite minds are terrible teachers ".
BK
"Goalie Apologist"
Now are just deflecting but I will list a few elite players that were bad coaches.
Gretzky, Trottier, Bob Gainey, Savard, and Phil Espisito for hockey players.
Other sports - Ted Williams, Isiah Thomas, Kevin McHale, Elgin Baylor, Diego Maradona, Magic Johnson, Pete Rose, etc.
Need more?
TLEH
Pronounced T-Lay
To add more. They think the game UNLIKE, the average player. So their explaining does not work as well. Like explaining addition to a 10 year old as a Math professor, and the 10 year old isn't getting it. Mathmatician gets pissed and only knows how to explain in the way he gets it, not ways for other people to get it. Doesn't understand why they don't get it either
Venthon
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- Nov 11, 2014
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To be clear, I dont see him as the 3c past this season. He might spend some time there but he will eventually be a top 6 winger/2c, imo. Just wanted to make my point before that trading him this offseason would be really dumb and not something that Stan would even entertain unless he gets an overpayment.
This thread has gotten pretty derailed but all I'm gonna say on it is that this is a pretty good way of looking at it. The smartest minds always have difficulty trying to explain their thinking to weaker minds. Coaching is also a skill completely independent from hockey knowledge, imo. You have to have a beat for your team and know when you can push the buttons and when to pull in the reigns.
Jesus Christ, I regret making that offhand comment about smart people often making lousy teachers. I'm a smart person who can't effectively teach anyone below the college level. I've tried. Eyes glaze. Poor kids... 
Good coaches are smart, but tend to be journeyman players who acquired their intelligence over years and years of practice and failure and watching the game incessantly. And the best ones know their limits and hire assistants who are smarter than they are to think tactics, and then teach those tactics to their players effectively. With some concerted effort to learn how to teach and inspire, Gretzky might learn to be a good coach. But he has to work hard at coaching the way good coaches had to work hard to be good hockey players.
Now, get back to ripping me about my premonition that TT will be gone soon...
Good coaches are smart, but tend to be journeyman players who acquired their intelligence over years and years of practice and failure and watching the game incessantly. And the best ones know their limits and hire assistants who are smarter than they are to think tactics, and then teach those tactics to their players effectively. With some concerted effort to learn how to teach and inspire, Gretzky might learn to be a good coach. But he has to work hard at coaching the way good coaches had to work hard to be good hockey players.
Now, get back to ripping me about my premonition that TT will be gone soon...
Maybe their explanations are good and you just have trouble understanding.
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pvr
Leather Skates
- Jan 22, 2008
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Yes. Give me the intellectually inferior teacher or professor to teach me or my child on the chance that he/she will be able to explain it to me better than a more intelligent individual. Makes sense to me. Maybe that's why we have an educational crisis in the USA. Schools teach down to the dumbest students rather than teaching up to the smartest. PC bs at its best. Intellectually inferior math teacher for incompetent intellectually inferior students who don't get it.
People here are confusing physically less gifted but still intelligent hockey players with the few elite players who are both, while throwing out a small sample size of failed elite player coaches as proof that an inferior hockey mind makes a better coach because his inferior hockey IQ will mesh better with the mentally challenged hockey players. I'm willing to bet that in the list of bad coaches from juniors on up the ranks to the NHL there are more failed average ex hockey player coaches, and that the sample size will be statistically significant vs the six or eight players that have been mentioned above as proving that more intelligent people somehow aren't able to pass on their knowledge in any coherent fashion to anyone.
Marotte Marauder
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- Aug 10, 2008
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For whatever reason, elite players seem less likely to go into coaching. There success rate is probably not that different from the success rate of all coaches. Coaches get hired to be fired as they say.
Some successful players who became successful coaches:
Darryl Sutter
Phil Jackson
Joe Torre
Mike Ditka
Red Berenson
Al Arbour
Scotty Bowman
Doc Rivers
Ozzie Guillen
Dusty Baker
Mike Sciosia
Also Ron Rivera, Harbaugh, Girardi, Jason Kidd, Byron Scott, Larry Bird, Lenny Wilkins, Rudy T...
BK
"Goalie Apologist"
We are talking about the elite players and no successful ones. Other than Ditka no one on your list was a HoF type player.
Hawksrule has has a few but far more fail than succeed.
Hawkaholic
Registered User
Everyone? I have seen maybe 1 or 2 people agree with that silly reason.
What GM is trading a high quality prospect like Galchenyuk, or Drouin for Saad who wants 6mil? (remember, TB had zero intentions of trading Drouin until this year).
And what free agent C would have commanded as little as AA and been as good? Not only that, there is a possibility that the FA C you wanted didn't fit well with Kane and Panarin.
I don't understand how anyone can be upset with Anisimov. Kane has a career year, we have a rookie with 70+pts and it's arguably the best line in the league. Not only that, the trade allowed us to get Ladd, who has been pretty good in his time here.
Anisimov & Ladd >>>> Saad, 1st (for this year, no one cares about the future right now)
We've reached the point in this discussion where the misunderstandings have been revealed and we're mostly all agreeing but nobody wants to admit it: several elite players have failed to become successful coaches for reasons we can all imagine and relate to.
Let's get back to TT. Or at least AA, apparently.
Let's get back to TT. Or at least AA, apparently.
BobbyJet
The accountability era?
TT needs to be good. Better than he has shown this RS. If he plays with Flash and Weise that should give him some support physically but he needs to get involved between the dots as Eddie would say.
Habs fan coming in peace!
Would Teuvo be available for both our 2nd picks this year!?
I've watched him around 10 times this year and I really do like him. He's smart and fast, which fits with Habs style of play (+ apparently, Timmins was VERY high on him at the draft).
I'm pretty sure you need to clear all the cap space that you're able to. Still, I'm not sure how much you value him and if it's worth for you to get more picks to add to your prospect pool (eventually filling the holes in your lineup with cheap players)
Last question, I know he plays all 3 positions, let's say 2 2nds are enough, would he be able to play wing in a top 6 role?
Thanks!
Good luck in the playoffs!
Would Teuvo be available for both our 2nd picks this year!?
I've watched him around 10 times this year and I really do like him. He's smart and fast, which fits with Habs style of play (+ apparently, Timmins was VERY high on him at the draft).
I'm pretty sure you need to clear all the cap space that you're able to. Still, I'm not sure how much you value him and if it's worth for you to get more picks to add to your prospect pool (eventually filling the holes in your lineup with cheap players)
Last question, I know he plays all 3 positions, let's say 2 2nds are enough, would he be able to play wing in a top 6 role?
Thanks!
Good luck in the playoffs!
Do you have some kind of weird obsession with me? This is starting to get a bit awkward...
At least you diddnt use any phrases wrong when attempting to poke fun this time. Baby steps!
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Putt Pirate
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- Dec 15, 2015
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So a top 6 on most teams (and a middle 1st round pick) for one or two 2nd rounders? You see how low the chances are for second rounders to make it to the NHL? Hell no to that offer. He is exactly the player we need going forward. Especially how he is still on his ELC. So he is a cheap player filling a spot already for us.
The Hawks would have zero interest in just draft picks for TT unless its HEAVILY in our favor. With the stage our core is it, it wouldn't make any sense to trade TT for futures. There would have to be another good young player that's NHL ready coming the other way. Just draft picks isnt gonna get it done, if he were to even become available.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
Hey, thanks for stopping by. To answer you, though, I don't believe there's any chance TT is moved, let alone for two 2nd's. It would take a dynamic NHL-ready player coming back over, + picks. He's a cheap top 6 player on his ELC still, which is a huge need for a team like the Hawks. Can't go around trading away cheap top 6 talent for nothing, which is essentially what two 2nd round picks are. I honestly don't think he would ever even have a chance at being moved, though. Just won't happen.
BK
"Goalie Apologist"
BK
"Goalie Apologist"
He 100% does need to be good. He has been one of our stronger players in the second half and the past few weeks he has been more aggressive. I also don't think it is a coincidence that our PP has looked much better since he was moved to the slot position with the Kane unit.
He has to be will to grind come playoff time and I think he is based on last years playoffs and his play of late.
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