hockeyfan125
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- Jul 10, 2004
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Gartner's in the Hall because he did something that nobody else in the history of the game has done. He scored 30-goals in 15 consecutive seasons to start his career, had the streak interrupted by the 1994-95 lockout, and then had two more 30-goal seasons. Gretzky and Howe couldn't match it. Nobody could. Even if Jagr does wind up breaking Gartner's record, this is still going to go down as one of hockey's most enduring and endearing accomplishments. It's sort of like Curtis Martin's run of 1,000-yard rushing seasons in the NFL. Consistency is of great importance, and in Gartner's case, his was unprecented, a sign of greatness and the reason he's in the HHOF.007 said:Selänne will make the HoF for a bunch of good reasons (individual trophies, overall reputation, that rookie year) and for several controversial reasons:
1) The bar for making the HoF is quite low: Gartner it can be argued made it because of his contributions to the game off the ice as well as on, but there are a lot of players in the Hall who, while they are well-loved and well-remembered, shouldn't be there according to some of the purists on this board. In a sense, I agree with them, but we're not the ones voting.
2) It can be argued that Selänne never improved his game for the playoffs. Here's the counter-argument: when you are head-and-shoulders above the level of everyone else on your team, when they ride you INTO the playoffs in the first place, how much higher can you raise your game? For all the great playoff performers, I can't think of any teams who have been able to ride a single player (except a hot goalie) deep into the playoffs. Teemu didn't make any playoff teams successful, but he did get several non-playoff teams into the post season. Elevating your game for the playoffs is a default setting for a lot of people, but quite frankly, it's a result of a lot of factors, individual brilliance isn't necessarily enough. You can argue this one all day and night, and mostly, people aren't going to change their minds.
3) He's the most talented, and 2nd-greatest Finnish player ever. I don't think it's a good argument, but it will be a factor, whether you like it or not.
I would like for his international career to get taken into account. The HoF should be about hockey, not just the NHL. Generally, you don't have to include performance in European leagues, because they are not on the level of the NHL. You also don't have to include performance in the WC, because that isn't on the highest level, either. But in the NHL-Olympics, he has been magnificent and I would like that to be taken into account, even though it won't be.
God Bless Canada said:Gartner's in the Hall because he did something that nobody else in the history of the game has done. He scored 30-goals in 15 consecutive seasons to start his career, had the streak interrupted by the 1994-95 lockout, and then had two more 30-goal seasons. Gretzky and Howe couldn't match it. Nobody could. Even if Jagr does wind up breaking Gartner's record, this is still going to go down as one of hockey's most enduring and endearing accomplishments. It's sort of like Curtis Martin's run of 1,000-yard rushing seasons in the NFL. Consistency is of great importance, and in Gartner's case, his was unprecented, a sign of greatness and the reason he's in the HHOF.
Mogo said:<< points at topic
God Bless Canada said:Selänne will be in the Hall because he did something that nobody else in the history of the game has done. He scored 76 goals in 84 games to start his career, including not just a rookie but an NHL record 20 goals in one month, and then had two more 50-goal seasons. Gretzky and Howe couldn't match it. Nobody could. Even if Ovechkin does wind up breaking Selänne's record (and I seriously doubt it), this is still going to go down as one of hockey's most impressive and astonishing accomplishments.... goal scoring is of great importance, and in Selänne's case, his was unprecedented, a sign of greatness and the reason he'll be in the HHOF.
You wasted your time doing that? Very low class. At least I had an intelligent, respectful argument with MS.Sampe said:There, fixed it for you.
IMO, the HHOF should be for players you will tell your grandchildren about. Selänne fits that description a lot better than Gartner.
alanschu said:I wasn't sure when I went into this thread, but MS has convinced me.
God Bless Canada said:You wasted your time doing that? Very low class. At least I had an intelligent, respectful argument with MS.
I realize that's totally subjective reasoning, but I agree with you 100%. Even though the statistical argument is a good one for Selanne, I think a lot gets lost when we focus so strongly on it.Sampe said:IMO, the HHOF should be for players you will tell your grandchildren about. Selänne fits that description a lot better than Gartner.
And nowhere did I say that Selanne's best year was his rookie year. IMO, his best was 1997-98, when he basically carried his team on his back for nearly two-thirds of the season. (The only time he didn't was when Kariya was in the lineup in December and January, and when Selanne was injured). There's more to evaluating a player's season than statistics.Sampe said:Didn't mean to offend you, I just felt like choosing a different way (for myself) of demonstrating the flaw in your reasoning.
Gartner doesn't deserve to be in the Hall simply because he did something unprecedented any more than Selänne does. And like BM67 said, you have to take overall scoring into consideration. That's precisely why Selänne's rookie season was not his career year.