Speculation: Tavares Tells Toronto, "I'm YOUR Huckleberry Now". Fans leaguewide mourn.

[yogintheaveragebears]

I can' be the only one worried about dealing with yzerman am i

 

[Alklha]

I too would be shocked if Thornton bolts. I was just using him as an example. I don't know if there are any other short-term 1 year stop-gaps, either through free agency or trade. I was tried to imply that question in my post. Is there anyone available to tide us over until next year? Of the 2019 UFA crop, Duchene might be available in trade right now, but Seguin probably won't be, especially not for us. If Tavares bolts, Lee might be available for futures. Then we can shift him to wing if we sign a C next year. Although he is a LHS and prefers LW, plus I think Tavares drastically inflates his numbers. Plekanec might sign a cheaper short-term deal.

I don't know. I'd just hate to make a 4 year commitment to someone less than ideal, and be out of the Center market next-year if Seguin and/or the Sharks Cs want to test the market. Seguin would have almost the impact that Tavares will, with Pavelski and Couture not too far behind. They are 65-80 point guys vs signing a 45-50 point guy that was the best available right now..

We can't afford to be viewing it like this. Schenn and Tarasenko are 27 this year, Schwartz is 26. We can't continue wasting their prime years and hoping something just falls into our laps.

We have the assets to trade for a top-6 centre in June, and it shouldn't take moving Thomas or Kyrou. It's up to Armstrong to try and find out what is out there and get a deal done.

If we trade for a top-6 centre in June, we gain a lot of flexibility going into UFA. We can go after Tavares, and if we miss out on him then we aren't panicking looking for a centre. If we get Tavares then our other centres are capable of playing wing. If we don't get Tavares then we still have our 2 top-6 centres and we've got a boatload of cap space to either overpay a winger short term or get creative in the trade market.

If we're in a position where we are needing to be considering Stastny or Bozak on 4 year deals, it's because the work wasn't done at the draft.

I can' be the only one worried about dealing with yzerman am i

Not worried in the slightest. Armstrong has his valuations and he doesn't shift much from them. Drouin for an extended Shattenkirk seems to have been agreed, but Shattenkirk wouldn't sign. It's not like that would have been bad for us.

 

[The Note]

Staple had this in his latest Athletic article: "There's chatter around the league that the magic number to sign Tavares on July 1 is $88 million, which comes out to roughly $12.6-million per on a seven-year deal. Expand that out a year for the Islanders and you've got a nice, round $100 million or so."

Lifted this from SCMURRAY over on the NYI board.

 

[Brian39]

I don't think there is any chance Ottawa trades Duchene and it certainly won't be for the type of value we would give up. The gave up Turris, the guy they drafted with their 1st rounder last year (Bowers), this year's 1st (which should become a 1st in 2019 since they will have a top 5 pick this year), Hammond, and a 3rd. So basically Turris, an early (maybe mid) 1st, a late 1st and some filler. They absolutely aren't moving him until all extension talks are exhausted, which likely won't be this summer. They would need a coup to justify trading him this summer since they gave up a ton and need him to produce in order to prevent the embarassment of sending Colorado a lottery pick in 2019 and losing Duchene.

 

[TK 421]

We can't afford to be viewing it like this. Schenn and Tarasenko are 27 this year, Schwartz is 26. We can't continue wasting their prime years and hoping something just falls into our laps.

We have the assets to trade for a top-6 centre in June, and it shouldn't take moving Thomas or Kyrou. It's up to Armstrong to try and find out what is out there and get a deal done.

If we trade for a top-6 centre in June, we gain a lot of flexibility going into UFA. We can go after Tavares, and if we miss out on him then we aren't panicking looking for a centre. If we get Tavares then our other centres are capable of playing wing. If we don't get Tavares then we still have our 2 top-6 centres and we've got a boatload of cap space to either overpay a winger short term or get creative in the trade market.

If we're in a position where we are needing to be considering Stastny or Bozak on 4 year deals, it's because the work wasn't done at the draft.

Not worried in the slightest. Armstrong has his valuations and he doesn't shift much from them. Drouin for an extended Shattenkirk seems to have been agreed, but Shattenkirk wouldn't sign. It's not like that would have been bad for us.

Great post.

The plan you outlined is the smartest approach imo. Go hard after a center at the draft via trade to grab some headlines then make Tavares an offer. We can always move a center to wing and like you said we then wouldnt be scrambling if/when Tavares goes elsewhere. I hope this is exactly what Armstrong does because I don't think we have time to sit around waiting for something that may never materialize. Being proactive and going after what you want gets results while waiting could see you with nothing.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Great post.

The plan you outlined is the smartest approach imo. Go hard after a center at the draft via trade to grab some headlines then make Tavares an offer. We can always move a center to wing and like you said we then wouldnt be scrambling if/when Tavares goes elsewhere. I hope this is exactly what Armstrong does because I don't think we have time to sit around waiting for something that may never materialize. Being proactive and going after what you want gets results while waiting could see you with nothing.

I absolutely agree with you guys. Try and get a top 6 RHS center, then go hard after Tavares.

Schwartz-Tavares-Tarasenko
Fabbri-TBA-Schenn
Steen-Thomas-Berglund

I’ve been thinking about it, and as great as Schwartz is with Schenn, I think Fabbri would be just as good of a fit with him. Also, I think Schwartz would fit more with Tavares/Tarasenko than Fabbri, especially after him missing a season and a half.

 

[Ranksu]

You guys really have put all your hopes at Tavares. Jeesus.

I still believe our only change for 1c is to draft it and change curse of Blues, but we're too good team for tank and Army can't acquire right needs and waste good assets for nothing. So eventually we end up wasting our best players primes.

Re-build.

 

[TK 421]

You guys really have put all your hopes at Tavares. Jeesus.

I still believe our only change for 1c is to draft it and change curse of Blues, but we're too good team for tank and Army can't acquire right needs and waste good assets for nothing. So eventually we end up wasting our best players primes.

Re-build.

Ironically Tavares is more realistic than your proposal of waiting on an 18 year old messiah and rebuilding.

And if you bothered to read my post or Alklha's you would have seen that we both(along with several other astute posters) are in favor of trading for a center at the draft 1st THEN pursuing Tavares in UFA also. That way we're NOT putting "all your hopes at Tavares".

 

[Ranksu]

Ironically Tavares is more realistic than your proposal of waiting on an 18 year old messiah and rebuilding.

And if you bothered to read my post or Alklha's you would have seen that we both(along with several other astute posters) are in favor of trading for a center at the draft 1st THEN pursuing Tavares in UFA also. That way we're NOT putting "all your hopes at Tavares".

I've read it. You don't need to be jerk.

Eh, its quite far-fetched to get 1c via trading market. I know Schenn was sick move by Army, but he isn't 1c in my book, but really frigging awesome trade, no doub it.

Name me couple 1c (80point center) or center prospect who has ceiling to 1c (80 points) who are available this off-season?

 

[The Note in MI]

I've read it. You don't need to be jerk.

Eh, its quite far-fetched to get 1c via trading market. I know Schenn was sick move by Army, but he isn't 1c in my book, but really frigging awesome trade, no doub it.

Name me couple 1c (80point center) or center prospect who has ceiling to 1c (80 points) who are available this off-season?

Getzlaf could be potentially available given the ducks struggles. William Karlsson is arguably an 80 pt player and is a UFA. Backstrom is potentially available as is Kuznetsov if the capitals are looking to make some big shakeup. Sequin is a free agent next year and can play center.

If Schenn has a stable right winger who can score goals he will produce 80 points. We don’t need an 80 point center. We need a 60 Point Center And that could be any number of players. Look at Eric Staal.

Tavares still represents the most available option but he’s not alone.

 

[TK 421]

I've read it. You don't need to be jerk.

Eh, its quite far-fetched to get 1c via trading market. I know Schenn was sick move by Army, but he isn't 1c in my book, but really frigging awesome trade, no doub it.

Name me couple 1c (80point center) or center prospect who has ceiling to 1c (80 points) who are available this off-season?

Ok Ranksu, my apologies. It just seemed like you completely ignored what was actually said and focused on Tavares.

I'm not suggesting trading for a 1C, those are never available in trade typically. Because we already have Schenn I think we should be targeting a 2C or 3C/2C tweener who is capable of 40-50 points in trade. I don't think that's unrealistic. It may be a guy that hasn't scored in that range yet but is capable given the right linemates or it may be a guy who has already done it. Obviously if its a guy who has already done it he will have to be making no more than 5 mil but if you're trading for him those guys are out there on teams not projected to be in the PO'S and those are the guys we should be looking at.

The idea would be to have the newly acquired center be the 2C behind Schenn before UFA even opens so that if/when we don't get Tavares we're not completely screwed having to throw money at another FA center. Even if its only a 40 pt guy that's better than what we currently have. Basically I don't see throwing money at anyone other than Tavares as realistic or worth it. In order to still pursue Tavares we would need to trade for another center who comes in at 5 mil a year or less.

The center we're trading for is the part to focus on here. That's the 1st step to improving at the position and has the added benefit of getting the entire leagues attention that the Blues are serious about improving. That move will still be resonating around the NHL as John Tavares is deciding on his new team for the next 7 years. So the timing is perfect and we have the available trade pieces(everyone not named Fabbri, Thomas, Husso) to get it done. Winnipeg 1st is gone as part of that deal along with one of our winger prospects or even Walman. I know not everyone agrees with me here but sitting around waiting is a poor choice when you have the chips to get it done at the draft amd send the right message right as the most coveted UFA to be in forever is set to be looking for a new team.

 

[tfriede2]

Getzlaf could be potentially available given the ducks struggles. William Karlsson is arguably an 80 pt player and is a UFA. Backstrom is potentially available as is Kuznetsov if the capitals are looking to make some big shakeup. Sequin is a free agent next year and can play center.

If Schenn has a stable right winger who can score goals he will produce 80 points. We don’t need an 80 point center. We need a 60 Point Center And that could be any number of players. Look at Eric Staal.

Tavares still represents the most available option but he’s not alone.

I wish...he's an RFA after this season.

 

[MissouriMook]

I wish...he's an RFA after this season.

One of the quirks of the current CBA is that by the time most desirable players become unrestricted (usually age 27) they are considered "old" and you may be reluctant to offer them long-term money for fear of declining skills in the back half of the deal.

 

[The Note in MI]

I wish...he's an RFA after this season.

Touché, misread capfriendly.

 

[mw2noobbuster]

Oh man, what I would give for Willy Karlsson...

 

[Dbrownss]

Staple had this in his latest Athletic article: "There's chatter around the league that the magic number to sign Tavares on July 1 is $88 million, which comes out to roughly $12.6-million per on a seven-year deal. Expand that out a year for the Islanders and you've got a nice, round $100 million or so."

Lifted this from SCMURRAY over on the NYI board.

it's an overpayment, but he'll get it

 

[Brian39]

I've read it. You don't need to be jerk.

Eh, its quite far-fetched to get 1c via trading market. I know Schenn was sick move by Army, but he isn't 1c in my book, but really frigging awesome trade, no doub it.

Name me couple 1c (80point center) or center prospect who has ceiling to 1c (80 points) who are available this off-season?

That's an insane definition of 1C. 10 guys listed as centers had 80 points last year. There have been just twenty two 80 point seasons by guys listed as centers since the last lockout in 2012/13. Those 22 seasons were accomplished by just 15 guys. In half a decade, just 15 centers have been able to hit the 80 point mark at all. Crosby, Tavares, McDavid, and Giroux are the only guys who have hit it more than once (and Giroux shouldn't count since he is listed as a C but played wing all season this year).

80 point center is not and should not be the definition of a 1C. An 80 point center is an elite center, period. Tavares is the only elite center who is absolutely available, but you consistently dismiss that possibility off hand.

Schenn is absolutely a 1C*. He was 20th in scoring among guys listed as a center this year at 70 points and at least 2 of the people ahead of him on that list played wing almost the entire season. He had great possession numbers, played a physical brand of hockey and was good defensively. We almost certainly aren't trading for your definition of a 1C because people don't trade elite centers. No one is suggesting or expecting Army to trade for one. Coincidentally, that is why many of us want to see us make a market-value offer to Tavares. The cap hit is absolutely brutal, but as you suggest, 80 point centers just don't become available, especially with zero asset cost.


*Last year, Schenn absolutely played like a 1C. The jury is still out on whether this was a career year or if a change of scenery truly elevated his game. If he regresses, then it will be fair to say he isn't a 1C, but the Blues version of Schenn we have seen so far is absolutely a 1C.

 

[Ranksu]

If we're looking for 2c then Stastny trade was huge mistake then. Why trade away player who is now our need?

 

[simon IC]

If we're looking for 2c then Stastny trade was huge mistake then. Why trade away player who is now our need?

He is a UFA and we could have lost him for nothing. Now we have Win's 1st and could still re-sign Stastny.

 

[simon IC]

Ok Ranksu, my apologies. It just seemed like you completely ignored what was actually said and focused on Tavares.

I'm not suggesting trading for a 1C, those are never available in trade typically. Because we already have Schenn I think we should be targeting a 2C or 3C/2C tweener who is capable of 40-50 points in trade. I don't think that's unrealistic. It may be a guy that hasn't scored in that range yet but is capable given the right linemates or it may be a guy who has already done it. Obviously if its a guy who has already done it he will have to be making no more than 5 mil but if you're trading for him those guys are out there on teams not projected to be in the PO'S and those are the guys we should be looking at.

The idea would be to have the newly acquired center be the 2C behind Schenn before UFA even opens so that if/when we don't get Tavares we're not completely screwed having to throw money at another FA center. Even if its only a 40 pt guy that's better than what we currently have. Basically I don't see throwing money at anyone other than Tavares as realistic or worth it. In order to still pursue Tavares we would need to trade for another center who comes in at 5 mil a year or less.

The center we're trading for is the part to focus on here. That's the 1st step to improving at the position and has the added benefit of getting the entire leagues attention that the Blues are serious about improving. That move will still be resonating around the NHL as John Tavares is deciding on his new team for the next 7 years. So the timing is perfect and we have the available trade pieces(everyone not named Fabbri, Thomas, Husso) to get it done. Winnipeg 1st is gone as part of that deal along with one of our winger prospects or even Walman. I know not everyone agrees with me here but sitting around waiting is a poor choice when you have the chips to get it done at the draft amd send the right message right as the most coveted UFA to be in forever is set to be looking for a new team.

Minor point, but I would change the bolded to Kyrou, Thomas, Husso. I think Fabbri can still be a valuable trade chip.

 

[Ranksu]

He is a UFA and we could have lost him for nothing. Now we have Win's 1st and could still re-sign Stastny.

Well, more likely he doesn't come back now. Note he's playing with Laine and Ehlers. That is like dream come true for Paul.

I would rather keep Stastny in then trade him away if our need really is 2c. Take the gamle if he doesn't resign in here.

But if case is Army thought its good get 1st round pick back this year draft and Stastny was the guy who would give us that knowing we're going to lose our own 1st round pick for Philly (Lehterä trade), then that is good move by Army. Draft is right way to build future.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Fabbri won't be a valuable trade chip (in the sense that he would return the value he *should* command) until he shows that he's healthy...at which point he ceases to be an expendable trade chip, and is back to being one of the top three players the Blues have at generating offensive chances (while still being young and cheap, to boot). What's the point of moving him for a 40-50 point center then? I wouldn't trade a healthy Fabbri straight up for a signed Stastny. Even if one would, does that move really improve the team in any significant way over retaining Fabbri and simply playing Steen at center if nothing else can be done to fill the #2 center slot?

 

[Brian39]

Fabbri won't be a valuable trade chip (in the sense that he would return the value he *should* command) until he shows that he's healthy...at which point he ceases to be an expendable trade chip, and is back to being one of the top three players the Blues have at generating offensive chances (while still being young and cheap, to boot). What's the point of moving him for a 40-50 point center then? I wouldn't trade a healthy Fabbri straight up for a signed Stastny. Even if one would, does that move really improve the team in any significant way over retaining Fabbri and simply playing Steen at center if nothing else can be done to fill the #2 center slot?

As much as I hate Steen at C, I completely agree.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

Fabbri won't be a valuable trade chip (in the sense that he would return the value he *should* command) until he shows that he's healthy...at which point he ceases to be an expendable trade chip, and is back to being one of the top three players the Blues have at generating offensive chances (while still being young and cheap, to boot). What's the point of moving him for a 40-50 point center then? I wouldn't trade a healthy Fabbri straight up for a signed Stastny. Even if one would, does that move really improve the team in any significant way over retaining Fabbri and simply playing Steen at center if nothing else can be done to fill the #2 center slot?

I would rather run 21 or 71 on C than moving 20 there.

 

[BA Carroll]

Draisatl.
O'Reilly.
We have the chips to acquire both.