Tavares and the excuses

[majormet]

Most NHL players are pretty vehement after they score goals, guys like Ovechkin and Crosby still celebrate as if they just scored their first NHL goal. JT was more animated when he scored much like most NHL players. If you saw his reaction on his shootout game winner, and on Lee's goal against the Sharks you would think it was a practice in East Mudhole. You do have to look at it as some sign of something, and in his walk year, you have to be concerned as a fan. I don't expect him to be like OBJ or even Ovechkin, but it just doesn't seem like JT, when you compare to JT of seasons past.

As an Isles fan, we are facing the biggest crossroads since the post cup years as arguably our best post cup player can leave next season, there is and should be some hyper vigilant reaction to abnormalities. We don't have a signed contract with this player, and he was the nucleus of the rebuild, if you remove your nucleus then you are back to basics.

 

[CupHolders]

Most NHL players are pretty vehement after they score goals, guys like Ovechkin and Crosby still celebrate as if they just scored their first NHL goal. JT was more animated when he scored much like most NHL players. If you saw his reaction on his shootout game winner, and on Lee's goal against the Sharks you would think it was a practice in East Mudhole. You do have to look at it as some sign of something, and in his walk year, you have to be concerned as a fan. I don't expect him to be like OBJ or even Ovechkin, but it just doesn't seem like JT, when you compare to JT of seasons past.

As an Isles fan, we are facing the biggest crossroads since the post cup years as arguably our best post cup player can leave next season, there is and should be some hyper vigilant reaction to abnormalities. We don't have a signed contract with this player, and he was the nucleus of the rebuild, if you remove your nucleus then you are back to basics.

Actually no, I don't think I or anyone as a hockey fan has to go above and beyond enjoying the game itself. One is certainly welcome to try and "figure out" the hearts and minds of an NHL player.

I saw enough of that with fan reactions to Rick DiPietro. He was certainly a flawed player with an inconsistent career for various reasons. Yet the focus of fan criticism would routinely extend beyond his on ice play and focus on vilifying him with baseless conjectures. Some fans tend to tend to treat these things like this is a scripted TV drama.

 

[majormet]

Actually no, I don't think I or anyone as a hockey fans has to go above and beyond enjoying the game itself. One is certainly welcome to try and "figure out" the hearts and minds of an NHL player.

I saw enough of that with fan reactions to Rick DiPietro. He was certainly a flawed player with an inconsistent career for various reasons. Yet the focus of fan criticism would routinely extend beyond his on ice play and focus on vilifying him for their own conjectures and perceptions. Some fans tend to tend to treat these things like this is a scripted TV drama.

Missing the point... you are comparing Rick DiPietro to JT LOL.

JT is a great player, there is no one knocking his performance, this board is universal on how great he is, biggest debate would be if he is a top 10 player in the league. This team is going to lose JT if he is not signed, there are reasons to be looking beyond the surface without any certainty that our best player could be gone in a year. I actually watch the games and could care less about reactions but anomalies stand out and then you think. I would be reacting the same way if Jordan Eberle got the GW'ing shootout goal in fantastic (or Butch would say glorious) fashion and acted like he had a stomach cramp from eating at Chipotle. As a fan, you are happy then they show the screen and JT looks melancholy.

As a human being, some say that DP was the nicest Islander of all time. It sure ain't Ray Ferraro.

 

[CupHolders]

Missing the point... you are comparing Rick DiPietro to JT LOL.

I'm missing the point... where did I compare Dipietro to JT? I specifically used two players as a device to addressed how FANS are given to over-conjecture. What difference does it matter if the player is a bust or a franchise player? This has nothing to do with either player, and all to do with how false presumptions by FANS to any player has the same BS smell.

This team is going to lose JT if he is not signed, there are reasons to be looking beyond the surface without any certainty that our best player could be gone in a year. I actually watch the games and could care less about reactions but anomalies stand out and then you think. I would be reacting the same way if Jordan Eberle got the GW'ing shootout goal in fantastic (or Butch would say glorious) fashion and acted like he had a stomach cramp from eating at Chipotle. As a fan, you are happy then they show the screen and JT looks melancholy.

So what you're proposing is that we make a pointed effort to read Tavares body language at all times possible in search of a sign that Tavares does not want to stay? And to what point would that serve us as fans? Will it allow us a better opportunity to keep Tavares? At some point He will either stay or go and we will all know.

 

[majormet]

I'm missing the point... where did I compare Dipietro to JT? I specifically used two players as a device to addressed how FANS are given to over-conjecture. What difference does it matter if the player is a bust or a franchise player? This has nothing to do with either player, and all to do with how false presumptions by FANS to any player has the same BS smell.



So what you're proposing is that we make a pointed effort to read Tavares body language at all times possible in search of a sign that Tavares does not want to stay? And to what point would that serve us as fans? Will it allow us a better opportunity to keep Tavares? At some point He will either stay or go and we will all know.

I get what you are saying about DP, but I guess you are misinterpreting my intent

What I am saying is that I am "not" trying to watch and read JT. It is actually the reaction after the goal that spurns the mysticism.

I watch JT assuming he is a happy Islander and is motivated, then he does something incredible (feed to Lee, OT goal) and his reaction is not JT like, which triggers the red flag.

Analogy, you go to a Bruce Springsteen concert and the sounds and performance is amazing but he doesn't speak to the audience at all, and you hear rumors that he is retiring, so you go to the show and he probably will kill Trump for 3 minutes between songs and 90 minutes into the show he says "thank you very much" ... I love the show but I am now thinking that something is wrong.

I am not saying that we should consciously watch for JT's movements, hmm he spit and it landed on CDH... he must hate CDH... nooooooooooooooooo.... more like he just scored a shootout winner and he is acting like he was just dealt to the Coyotes.

 

[crasherino]

Most NHL players are pretty vehement after they score goals, guys like Ovechkin and Crosby still celebrate as if they just scored their first NHL goal. JT was more animated when he scored much like most NHL players. If you saw his reaction on his shootout game winner, and on Lee's goal against the Sharks you would think it was a practice in East Mudhole. You do have to look at it as some sign of something, and in his walk year, you have to be concerned as a fan. I don't expect him to be like OBJ or even Ovechkin, but it just doesn't seem like JT, when you compare to JT of seasons past.

As an Isles fan, we are facing the biggest crossroads since the post cup years as arguably our best post cup player can leave next season, there is and should be some hyper vigilant reaction to abnormalities. We don't have a signed contract with this player, and he was the nucleus of the rebuild, if you remove your nucleus then you are back to basics.

I mean this in the nicest way possible as you seem like a nice guy....but you're insane. I just went back and watched Lee's goal and JT's arms shot in the air like he did on previous goals during the game. And then he did something else....he skated over and.....wait for it....CONGRATULATED HIS TEAMMATE!!!! The nerve on that guy.

 

[PK Cronin]

I guess we should've known he wanted out after he didn't celebrate this shootout goal years ago!



Wait, and there's this one too!

 

[Lame Lambert]

I guess we should've known he wanted out after he didn't celebrate this shootout goal years ago!

I bet he was too busy thinking about the house he's going to buy in LA!!11!1!!!1!1!

 

[aronjudge11]

I still think Tavares is wearing a different uniform next year or sooner. He will say its for family reasons to not hurt the islanders brand. Personally I would of traded him by now since I dont think he is that great and certainly the team wouldnt win a playoff round if the playoffs started tomorrow and the islanders were in it. If the islanders with this team made the playoffs ten times they would probably win 1 round small chance for 2. Thats if they made it ten times. If you were a odds maker that would be how you set it. Thats not high enough quality to keep a guy thats worth 3 first rounders if you moved him before the year.

 

[majormet]

I mean this in the nicest way possible as you seem like a nice guy....but you're insane. I just went back and watched Lee's goal and JT's arms shot in the air like he did on previous goals during the game. And then he did something else....he skated over and.....wait for it....CONGRATULATED HIS TEAMMATE!!!! The nerve on that guy.

I can't be insane and a nice guy at the same time, but... LOL

I may be overreacting but not insane, this is what happens when your best player is not signed, and I may have PTSD from being a Mets fan.

I was 12 years old when the Mets franchise player was dealt away, and still the best player to don the blue and orange (Tom Seaver) and we did not make the playoffs for 8 years after that...

I will put it another way that doesn't seem insane, you watch a TV show or movie and you know how it ends and then you watch it again and look for the signs on how it ended in a way that was not suitable to your liking.

I guess I will treat JT like the Rolling Stones, it is his farewell tour.. and then hope like the Stones, that they re-appear with another tour over and over again

 

[TommytheCat]

I can't be insane and a nice guy at the same time, but... LOL

I may be overreacting but not insane, this is what happens when your best player is not signed, and I may have PTSD from being a Mets fan.

I was 12 years old when the Mets franchise player was dealt away, and still the best player to don the blue and orange (Tom Seaver) and we did not make the playoffs for 8 years after that...

I will put it another way that doesn't seem insane, you watch a TV show or movie and you know how it ends and then you watch it again and look for the signs on how it ended in a way that was not suitable to your liking.

I guess I will treat JT like the Rolling Stones, it is his farewell tour.. and then hope like the Stones, that they re-appear with another tour over and over again

Major your here stirring the pot ... LOL... forget the stones alex geddy and neil have hung em up

 

[BelovedIsles]

JT has not appeared to be his usual self. I’m sorry I’m going to stand by this observation. I would make this claim whether he had a significant long-term decision to make or not. It’s reasonable to deduce that the long-term future of what is probably the most meaningful component of his life is lurking in the background. We can’t say with certainty that this is conclusively the reason he’s looked ‘off.’ Maybe it’s his usual slow start, maybe something else. This is a message board composed of fanatics; a forum to banter and surmise.

With all that said, he looked better last night; hoping he’s trending upward. Water under the bridge until D day.

 

[LetsGoIslanders]

Tavares has improved his skating, but when you look at McDavid, Eichel, or even Barzal, you wonder what a $10 million contract will look like eight years from now. He has the hands, I don't know if he has the feet. The league is simply getting faster and faster. Maybe he needs to drop 10-20 pounds and that might be the answer. It just seems that it's Anders Lee finishes off his chances. He enters the zone, takes a nice shot, but can't make moves at speed that recent 1st overall picks make.

I know I am in the minority here, but maybe we're reaching for Tavares to be the answer in 2017 and going forward. The team could probably rip off a team or two (in a three way trade) for certain players. Nashville would love them some Tavares for Eeli Tolvanen (who I think is the next Laine) in a three way deal with top-5 draft team. Then add a bunch of early first round picks from a struggling team.

 

[majormet]

Major your here stirring the pot ... LOL... forget the stones alex geddy and neil have hung em up

The Stones are like Mr Jagr, they will never give up... in 1989 it was to be their farewell tour and I saw them in Atlantic City and they have toured 7 times since then.

Rush, very talented, but I never got into them as much as I was supposed to I guess, I'll take the Clash and Jam at that era.... and Jam farewell tour was during the Isles cup run LOL

 

[MikeyMike01]

Most NHL players are pretty vehement after they score goals, guys like Ovechkin and Crosby still celebrate as if they just scored their first NHL goal. JT was more animated when he scored much like most NHL players. If you saw his reaction on his shootout game winner, and on Lee's goal against the Sharks you would think it was a practice in East Mudhole. You do have to look at it as some sign of something, and in his walk year, you have to be concerned as a fan. I don't expect him to be like OBJ or even Ovechkin, but it just doesn't seem like JT, when you compare to JT of seasons past.

As an Isles fan, we are facing the biggest crossroads since the post cup years as arguably our best post cup player can leave next season, there is and should be some hyper vigilant reaction to abnormalities. We don't have a signed contract with this player, and he was the nucleus of the rebuild, if you remove your nucleus then you are back to basics.

The best hypothesis is the one with the fewest assumptions.

You are assuming Tavares is unhappy. You are assuming he is unhappy because he is on the Islanders. Both equally baseless.

I would be shocked if Tavares were unhappy. If he were unhappy, it would be because he is disappointed in his play as of late.

 

[lazycop]

The best hypothesis is the one with the fewest assumptions.

You are assuming Tavares is unhappy. You are assuming he is unhappy because he is on the Islanders. Both equally baseless.

I would be shocked if Tavares were unhappy. If he were unhappy, it would be because he is disappointed in his play as of late.

Good post. I think the only things anyone can accurately assume are that JT is unhappy with the arena, and that he looks frustrated that he's off to a(for him) slow start.
Everything else is conjecture, but this is an internet message board, so what do you expect.

 

[periferal]

The bottom line is this...

Tavares is not signed.

We can analyze his facial features until ours turn blue, but ACTIONS are everything. And in an NHL where pretty much every major star who could resign with their current team in the past few months did so except Tavares - Every one of us would be extremely foolish to ignore that Tavares hasn't.

It would be equally foolish to think that Tavares is a shoo-in to resign because of all the years of him proclaiming how much he loves it here. And because until he resigns there is a chance that he leaves for nothing, it would be even more foolish not to prepare for that reality.

I've said it for months prior to the season that the Islanders should've given Tavares/JT a very professional/polite pseudo-deadline of training camp to resign or else the Isles would be forced to shop him in a trade. No player, and I mean NO PLAYER, is above the team, and if after 9 years and so may other of his teammates willing to resign long–term, Tavares cannot commit to the Isles, then maybe they shouldn't commit to him and seek out a trade for the best of the franchise.

A smart team will always do what is best for the team - Not the individual. And to let JT walk at the end of this year for nothing is literally the worst possible outcome and not best for the team. And every moment that passes without JT resigned speaks volumes, and the options/power that the Isles have to do something about it dwindles. We're now at the point where a (very professional) ultimatum must be given where if Tavares doesn’t sign by let’s say by New Year’s, then the Isles will actively look to deal him to the highest bidder.

And the mystery of where the Isles will play going forward cannot be an excuse to wait longer because not only could the RFP decision not come until late 2018, but Leddy, Boychuck, Cizikas, Ladd, Clutterbuck, etc all signed here long-term with less (even no) information about Belmont. That, along with any other personal issues, didn’t stop all those guys from committing to this team…So what does it say that the guy whose supposed to be the captain of your entire franchise that he so far refuses do the same?

No smart person wants to lose Tavares, but if he cannot step up and commit to a team that wants him, what is going to be an insane amount of money, and in the only place he’s ever known professionally, then the Isles need to do what’s best for the Isles and use Tavares as an asset that can get us closer to the Cup. Because losing him for nothing will set them back literally years, and I’d rather win the Cup without Tavares then be part of another rebuild.

 

[majormet]

We have reached a pretty bad place with JT at this point, what can we get at this point for 70 games and a playoff run of JT.

Trading him at this point, is a rental situation, what if JT wants to play for Montreal or whoever, can we sign him and deal him to the team of his dreams, that would have some value, but sounds pretty shady to me. For instance, we sign JT, Bailey and CDH and ship them to Montreal for Weber, Galchenyuk and 2 first rounders. Is that legal in this game. Adding Weber fills the star void left by JT, would make Nelson the first line center, make them take Kulemin back as well, leaves us room to sign Turris or Atkinson in the offseason.

Perif makes very good points that the arena uncertainty didn't affect the other players. Not sure sure though that we slide back that horribly if we can get a lot of draft picks for next year with our potential UFA's, and have cap room to get players in the offseason by which time the arena deal may be locked up.

I know people don't like Weber because of his age, but he should be top 10 in the league for 4 more years. Galch... not a fan but who knows, maybe less pressure in Isles land will help him like it did with Streit.

I don't think we sign any of our UFA's outside of Thomas Hockey... I mean Hickey

 

[ekill08x]

Even though I agree with all this, its pretty damn depressing that this is likey it for him here. They really need to figure this out though. At some point its unfair to all parties included.

 

[BKIsles]

I've said it for months prior to the season that the Islanders should've given Tavares/JT a very professional/polite pseudo-deadline of training camp to resign or else the Isles would be forced to shop him in a trade. No player, and I mean NO PLAYER, is above the team, and if after 9 years and so may other of his teammates willing to resign long–term, Tavares cannot commit to the Isles, then maybe they shouldn't commit to him and seek out a trade for the best of the franchise.

A smart team will always do what is best for the team - Not the individual. And to let JT walk at the end of this year for nothing is literally the worst possible outcome and not best for the team. And every moment that passes without JT resigned speaks volumes, and the options/power that the Isles have to do something about it dwindles. We're now at the point where a (very professional) ultimatum must be given where if Tavares doesn’t sign by let’s say by New Year’s, then the Isles will actively look to deal him to the highest bidder.

This implication that Tavares has been anything less than loyal to the franchise because he hasn't re-signed yet is embarrassing and idiotic. The holdup could be as simple as structuring the salary against the cap, if we end up being buyers, it may have an impact how the first year or two of the contract is structured. JT's going to get a massive contract, it will need to be executed perfectly to optimize our chance of winning. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes, I'm sure FO/Ownership has a fairly clear picture on which way JT is leaning. And if JT is truly waiting to see how the team is trending this year before re-signing or going to FA, then why would you elicit an ultimatum before the latest time possible? Losing JT immediately sinks our season.

Obviously, letting Tavares walk without getting anything in return is the worst case scenario, but I think a player of JT's caliber on the last year of their contract probably has the most value at the trade deadline anyway (because of cap hit and the amount of potential FA suiters), so the front office has a four month window to make the right move for the franchise.

 

[beach]

Tavares has improved his skating, but when you look at McDavid, Eichel, or even Barzal, you wonder what a $10 million contract will look like eight years from now. He has the hands, I don't know if he has the feet. The league is simply getting faster and faster. Maybe he needs to drop 10-20 pounds and that might be the answer. It just seems that it's Anders Lee finishes off his chances. He enters the zone, takes a nice shot, but can't make moves at speed that recent 1st overall picks make.

I know I am in the minority here, but maybe we're reaching for Tavares to be the answer in 2017 and going forward. The team could probably rip off a team or two (in a three way trade) for certain players. Nashville would love them some Tavares for Eeli Tolvanen (who I think is the next Laine) in a three way deal with top-5 draft team. Then add a bunch of early first round picks from a struggling team.

I know this is not a popular sentiment but I agree with you. While JT is currently our best player, I've always seen him as a 1a level player, a level below the top talent eschelon. His foot speed is not top notch, and he is atrocious in 3-3 play.

I think Snow and Co. Should give him a Christmas deadline to sign. If he doesn't, they should trade him over the holidays, mainly because you never get a good enough return at the trade deadline.

I'm sorry, but he is a pro making millions per year. If the game day commute 41 times per year is that big of a deal, then he really doesn't want to be here.

JT is a great player, but if he doesn't sign soon, they need to pull the trigger and get solid value back before it's too late.

 

[leeroggy]

I can't be insane and a nice guy at the same time, but... LOL

I may be overreacting but not insane, this is what happens when your best player is not signed, and I may have PTSD from being a Mets fan.

I was 12 years old when the Mets franchise player was dealt away, and still the best player to don the blue and orange (Tom Seaver) and we did not make the playoffs for 8 years after that...

I will put it another way that doesn't seem insane, you watch a TV show or movie and you know how it ends and then you watch it again and look for the signs on how it ended in a way that was not suitable to your liking.

I guess I will treat JT like the Rolling Stones, it is his farewell tour.. and then hope like the Stones, that they re-appear with another tour over and over again

Speaking of the 80's Mets Ray Knight was arrested for getting into a brawl with someone half his age, some things never change

 

[Axel574]

I still think Tavares is wearing a different uniform next year or sooner. He will say its for family reasons to not hurt the islanders brand. Personally I would of traded him by now since I dont think he is that great and certainly the team wouldnt win a playoff round if the playoffs started tomorrow and the islanders were in it. If the islanders with this team made the playoffs ten times they would probably win 1 round small chance for 2. Thats if they made it ten times. If you were a odds maker that would be how you set it. Thats not high enough quality to keep a guy thats worth 3 first rounders if you moved him before the year.

How bout dem Rangers!!! LMFAO.

 

[Rehabguy]

This implication that Tavares has been anything less than loyal to the franchise because he hasn't re-signed yet is embarrassing and idiotic. The holdup could be as simple as structuring the salary against the cap, if we end up being buyers, it may have an impact how the first year or two of the contract is structured. JT's going to get a massive contract, it will need to be executed perfectly to optimize our chance of winning. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes, I'm sure FO/Ownership has a fairly clear picture on which way JT is leaning. And if JT is truly waiting to see how the team is trending this year before re-signing or going to FA, then why would you elicit an ultimatum before the latest time possible? Losing JT immediately sinks our season.

Obviously, letting Tavares walk without getting anything in return is the worst case scenario, but I think a player of JT's caliber on the last year of their contract probably has the most value at the trade deadline anyway (because of cap hit and the amount of potential FA suiters), so the front office has a four month window to make the right move for the franchise.

Good post! Getting tired of the bottomless pit posts. JT already stated over and over again that wants to remain an Islander. Garth Snow stated negotiations are moving along "excellently". Nothing to see here folks just enjoy the season and expect JT to be here for years to come.

 

[Bones45]

1. If somehow the Isles signed on the dotted line today getting a new arena, guess what -- JT still isn't signing a contract with the Isles. Ya know why? He is using that as a tactic and rationale not to make a deal until he checks out the open market. If you think teams aren't already reaching out to him, you are mistaken.

2. The drive of a superstar player in any league is beyond what anyone on this board knows. He wants to be the best in the world and win every $&@& trophy and have success in every level. He has been exceptional in every aspect of hockey so far.. so there is no way he is going to be content in staying in a team which celebrates one season where they had a PO series victory. Make no mistake, his goal is to win the Cup and there is no way that is going to happen with the Islanders.. which brings me to point #3.

3. This organization is a joke. There is no hockey based reason why he would stay with the Isles. Not one. I don't need to expand on this. If you don't agree -- just google it.

If he does end up resigning long term, I'd be shocked and question his end game. ($$ vs Stanley Cup success)