Tavares and the excuses

[GTislanders]

i know it's game 5. I know hes our franchise. We all are aware and okay with this. But 5 games in and this guy has not only looked slower, he seems to be disinterested.

This is a guy who will be looking at 11-12 million for us. If he doesnt want to be here, then this discussion needs to be had.

We cant keep making excuses. We arent good enough for John to figure this out on his own terms. He has to be better. He has to find a way to be better.

If the scenario presents itself where you can get back an a level peice, then the conversation has to start.

From day 1 tavares was supposed to be better than just a top 10 player. Why can everyone elses superstars take over games? Why is it that we have to sit here and accept that our superstar, over 8 years, hasnt done enough to seperate himself from the top 20 class? I get that this is difficult to discuss, and we may get a tear where he goes ham.

But i dont see how its good enough at the pricetag hell command.

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[GrandmaSlices51631]

Could be a knee jerk reaction, when he saves the day we will all be screaming blank check.

I hear you though, theres been too many games where I think many of us have wondered "Where is JT?" Unfortunately, I think he would benefit from a change of scenery, he is a professional and will never throw the Islanders organization under the bus. He's played here his whole career and the team as a collective has had very little "success". After a while, that's got to have some effect on you psychologically.

12 Million is a lot of bank for him if he has another 60 point season. Before we write off our franchise player and heart of the team, I'd like to see the PP addressed. A couple goals on the PP could help his confidence and get him playing creative again, he seems to be relying on his individual skill instead of surveying the ice and distributing the puck, which IMO is one of his top-3 assets. In Anaheim, when I saw him try to roll off Josh Manson and get neutralized I sighed. Just a play and it's not alarming when Hedman does that to him but you get my point.

The whole JT on the PK is a great idea and gives him a Blue Collar work ethic but it might be time to switch that up. Let him use that gas to do what he does best, score goals and make his linemates better.

 

[GTislanders]

Could be a knee jerk reaction, when he saves the day we will all be screaming blank check.

I hear you though, theres been too many games where I think many of us have wondered "Where is JT?" Unfortunately, I think he would benefit from a change of scenery, he is a professional and will never throw the Islanders organization under the bus. He's played here his whole career and the team as a collective has had very little "success". After a while, that's got to have some effect on you psychologically.

12 Million is a lot of bank for him if he has another 60 point season. Before we write off our franchise player and heart of the team, I'd like to see the PP addressed. A couple goals on the PP could help his confidence and get him playing creative again, he seems to be relying on his individual skill instead of surveying the ice and distributing the puck, which IMO is one of his top-3 assets. In Anaheim, when I saw him try to roll off Josh Manson and get neutralized I sighed. Just a play and it's not alarming when Hedman does that to him but you get my point.

The whole JT on the PK is a great idea and gives him a Blue Collar work ethic but it might be time to switch that up. Let him use that gas to do what he does best, score goals and make his linemates better.

Agreed on all points. And it comes down to garth snow. Eberle was not the answer. We all know that. How do you think tavares feels? So if snow isnt going to pull the damn trigger and bring in another star to help him, then its time for a trade. I dont see how or why hes staying if we couldnt/cant provide him that support. Add in the arena uncertainty and it is what it is. But we have games to win. And if it isnt going to be the year we need from him either find a way to help him or figure out what the next step is.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Agreed on all points. And it comes down to garth snow. Eberle was not the answer. We all know that. How do you think tavares feels? So if snow isnt going to pull the damn trigger and bring in another star to help him, then its time for a trade. I dont see how or why hes staying if we couldnt/cant provide him that support. Add in the arena uncertainty and it is what it is. But we have games to win. And if it isnt going to be the year we need from him either find a way to help him or figure out what the next step is.

The time to trade him was before the season WHICH would've sent Arena talks into a downward spiral, besides, the reality is we will all feel HOSED since there are very few teams (if ANY AT ALL) with the bluechips we'd want that are in a position to trade for a rental Tavares. Whoever is in the mix will have to be a contender AND put some serious chips on the table.

I see Garth holding him till July 1st and possibly getting flamed if JT walks. To trade JT at the deadline and get a standard return for a big name, such as a 1st + a Prospect will have us furious. We shall see how it goes, if we are in the mix then, no point in discussing....

We also don't know which teams will be buyers.... In reality, I think they need to juggle lines, I know Lee scored 34 goals and i'm all for keeping him on PP Unit1, but Lee has proven he will score goals without JT. He's done it before, I just don't see the speed a top line needs in the NHL. Whoever suggested putting Beauvillier there is wise, we need some jump there. Also, Ho-Sang NEEDS to be on the 1st PP unit, they are putzing around, trying 1,2,3 times to enter the zone, let JHS skate it in and find JT.

He is very in his head and the pathetic power play does nothing to get him out of a rut (not blaming him either).

 

[CREW99AW]

I think there is a good chance the isles win the Belmont bid and then we would see the owners offer Tavares a huge, 8 year extension. Even if he has another down year.
They are not going to want to lose a 27 year old, franchise player.

 

[lazycop]

i know it's game 5. I know hes our franchise. We all are aware and okay with this. But 5 games in and this guy has not only looked slower, he seems to be disinterested.

This is a guy who will be looking at 11-12 million for us. If he doesnt want to be here, then this discussion needs to be had.

We cant keep making excuses. We arent good enough for John to figure this out on his own terms. He has to be better. He has to find a way to be better.

If the scenario presents itself where you can get back an a level peice, then the conversation has to start.

From day 1 tavares was supposed to be better than just a top 10 player. Why can everyone elses superstars take over games? Why is it that we have to sit here and accept that our superstar, over 8 years, hasnt done enough to seperate himself from the top 20 class? I get that this is difficult to discuss, and we may get a tear where he goes ham.

But i dont see how its good enough at the pricetag hell command.

I agree with the bolded. The rest? Lets not forget this guy is coming off off-season surgery and adjusting to a new linemate. It's 5 games. He'll be fine. He's been this team, the Man, since he put the jersey on on draft night. Trading him would set this franchise back for years, and we're never gonna get a comparable return. Besides, good teams don't trade a 27 yr old John Tavares, they do everything they can to hold onto him.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Ho-sang has been better than him, which is just unacceptable.

 

[YearlyLottery]

I get that hating Tavares is the cool thing to do right now, but to say that he doesn't want to be here is not an only an exaggeration but is the definition of reading between the lines. If Tavares has a bad game it does not mean he is thinking of leaving, it may just mean he had a bad game.

Tavares should not be playing with both Eberle and Lee. It is fascinating to me that posters JUST NOW are figuring out Tavares has always been a bit of a streaky player. Stop grasping for imaginary straws.

 

[mm11]

i know it's game 5. I know hes our franchise. We all are aware and okay with this. But 5 games in and this guy has not only looked slower, he seems to be disinterested.

This is a guy who will be looking at 11-12 million for us. If he doesnt want to be here, then this discussion needs to be had.

We cant keep making excuses. We arent good enough for John to figure this out on his own terms. He has to be better. He has to find a way to be better.

If the scenario presents itself where you can get back an a level peice, then the conversation has to start.

From day 1 tavares was supposed to be better than just a top 10 player. Why can everyone elses superstars take over games? Why is it that we have to sit here and accept that our superstar, over 8 years, hasnt done enough to seperate himself from the top 20 class? I get that this is difficult to discuss, and we may get a tear where he goes ham.

But i dont see how its good enough at the pricetag hell command.

might as well adress this 100lb Elephant early right? John Tavares is underperforming for awhile now. Last year as well. Is he really that good? Eventually we have to dig deep and really look. Ho Sang and Barzal are more dangerous right now. Will this change? Probably...We all hope so.....One thing we have known and seen from JT is he can take over portions of seasons and get hot. Law of averages says he will soon. As a GM I would open the wallet and bite the bullet on an 8 year deal and get on with it. (when the time is right, Belmont let's go) He might just slide into a great 2nd line center role in 4 years if Barzal keep creating these chances all by himself. By that time what will JT be then? 32 years old? For us old timers, JT is looking like Ron Francis as he eventually found his groove as a 2nd line elite center....

 

[CupHolders]

might as well adress this 100lb Elephant early right? John Tavares is underperforming for awhile now. Last year as well. Is he really that good? Eventually we have to dig deep and really look. Ho Sang and Barzal are more dangerous right now. Will this change? Probably...We all hope so.....One thing we have known and seen from JT is he can take over portions of seasons and get hot. Law of averages says he will soon. As a GM I would open the wallet and bite the bullet on an 8 year deal and get on with it. (when the time is right, Belmont let's go) He might just slide into a great 2nd line center role in 4 years if Barzal keep creating these chances all by himself. By that time what will JT be then? 32 years old? For us old timers, JT is looking like Ron Francis as he eventually found his groove as a 2nd line elite center....

Tavares as Francis would be a dream in my book! Francis was one of my favorite and often underrated players of all time.

But with that said, Tavares yearly statistics mirror the PP (Power Play) production. When the PP is ranked 15 or above in the NHL, Tavares is at PPG (Point Per Game) or better scoring rate. When the PP is ranked like the last two years his lower PPG is reflected in lack of PP production.

If the Isles have average to above average PP Tavares will be at a PPG average or better.

 

[Local290]

I get all of the complaints. He hasn't looked great. But to be fair, in OT vs St. Louis he beat Allen. The puck went under his arm, clipped his jersey and went an inch wide.

Then Anaheim it was basically the same thing on that last pp. It hit the outside of Gibsons arm. If even one of those go in, the narrative is different.

Time to go back to Bailey. They make each other better. It just works for whatever reason. And Barzal is way too fast to be playing with Ladd and Bailey. Give him Eberle and Beau Then we already saw last year that Ladd Brock and JHS worked.

 

[Isles Drive For 5]

I get all of the complaints. He hasn't looked great. But to be fair, in OT vs St. Louis he beat Allen. The puck went under his arm, clipped his jersey and went an inch wide.

Then Anaheim it was basically the same thing on that last pp. It hit the outside of Gibsons arm. If even one of those go in, the narrative is different.

Time to go back to Bailey. They make each other better. It just works for whatever reason. And Barzal is way too fast to be playing with Ladd and Bailey. Give him Eberle and Beau Then we already saw last year that Ladd Brock and JHS worked.

I keep saying I’d like to see the following:

Line 1: Lee- Tavares - Ho Sang
- Ho sang and his puck carrying ability allows us to establish play in the offensive zone, where Tavares can then go to work on the cycle. Plus, since Tavares has the ability to score as a center, having a skilled set up winger like Ho Sang can help him score more goals. Lee adds the net front presence to that line.

Line 2: Ladd- Barzal- Eberle
- Barzal is given two goal scorers with great shots to set up. Plus, Ladd can go into the corners and be the grinder on this line.

Line 3: Nelson- Beauvillier- Bailey
- Beauvillier hustles much more than Nelson, and is better defensively, so he is better equipped to handle the middle of the ice, which requires more responsibility. Plus, Nelson with his great wrist shot is better suited for the wing. He would get many more goal scoring opportunities there. Bailey slides down to the third line, which better suits his ability level.

Line 4: Kulemin- Cizikas- Chimera
- A very solid 4th line. Clutterbuck rotates in evenly with Kulemin and Chimera on the wings. This line plays a defensively responsible game, and plays with physicality in irder to compliment the rest if the lineup.
Bonus Analysis: If they send one of Barzal, Ho Sang, or Beauvillier down once quine or prince come back, then this organization will prove that it has learned absolutely nothing over the past decade.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

All his points were in the one game too

 

[PK Cronin]

You guys are sick and need your heads examined.

 

[Local290]

I keep saying I’d like to see the following:

Line 1: Lee- Tavares - Ho Sang
- Ho sang and his puck carrying ability allows us to establish play in the offensive zone, where Tavares can then go to work on the cycle. Plus, since Tavares has the ability to score as a center, having a skilled set up winger like Ho Sang can help him score more goals. Lee adds the net front presence to that line.

Line 2: Ladd- Barzal- Eberle
- Barzal is given two goal scorers with great shots to set up. Plus, Ladd can go into the corners and be the grinder on this line.

Line 3: Nelson- Beauvillier- Bailey
- Beauvillier hustles much more than Nelson, and is better defensively, so he is better equipped to handle the middle of the ice, which requires more responsibility. Plus, Nelson with his great wrist shot is better suited for the wing. He would get many more goal scoring opportunities there. Bailey slides down to the third line, which better suits his ability level.

Line 4: Kulemin- Cizikas- Chimera
- A very solid 4th line. Clutterbuck rotates in evenly with Kulemin and Chimera on the wings. This line plays a defensively responsible game, and plays with physicality in irder to compliment the rest if the lineup.
Bonus Analysis: If they send one of Barzal, Ho Sang, or Beauvillier down once quine or prince come back, then this organization will prove that it has learned absolutely nothing over the past decade.

I want. Bailey JT Lee. It works.

Eberle Barzal Beau. Give Barzal a scorer and linemates who can keep up with him. The kid is first and foremost a playmaker and we don't see this at all because Bailey and Ladd can't keep up.

Ladd Nelson JHS. They had solid chemistry last year.

Cal/Chimera- Casey- Kuli.

If Quine or prince play over any kids... Don't want to think about it but I kinda expect it. It's really hard to root for this team sometimes because of lineup decisions. And I thought we were finally past that.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Sigh... These posts are the equivalent of the "Shoooot!" morons at games. Tired, predictable, vapid and ignorant.

 

[dlawong]

Saw some NHL fans commented after last night's game that Sens have the best PP in NHL, so Isles need to send a scout to watch a couple of Sens next 2 games and take notes. If they can somehow get hold of any Sens TV games to analyze the videos even better. They pass the pucks with quick pinpoint accuracies and yes they move the puck well and put guys with good shots in the right spots.

Isles have to identify their go to guys for both units but have a 2nd guy on the unit with potential to deflect pucks or pounce in rebound will help. The other thing is to put pucks to net. A lot of goals scored these days deflect off body of players in front of net, and sometime off the defending D men on the front.

 

[CodeE]

Scapegoating Tavares is not the solution to this problem. If we lose him to another NHL team, this franchise takes a massive step back. #1C is the hardest position in hockey to fill and I see zero silver lining in any situation where he leaves the Islanders.

 

[CupHolders]

might as well adress this 100lb Elephant early right?

By the way i’ve been meaning to ask ... is this the Thomas Hickey of Elephants?

 

[JKP]

Good lord... it's been 5 GMs. He's always had periods where he doesn't show up on the scoresheet then goes nuts for 2 months...

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Why would trading Tavares have anything to do with the arena situation?

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Why would trading Tavares have anything to do with the arena situation?

Because if your investing in an arena, having a "face" of a franchise that draws a crowd is pretty important if you want actual bodies to show up to said arena and pay money to see your on ice product. Make sense?

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Because if your investing in an arena, having a "face" of a franchise that draws a crowd is pretty important if you want actual bodies to show up to said arena and pay money to see your on ice product. Make sense?

Not even a little bit.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Not even a little bit.

Sorry to hear that.

For a guy with 11,000+ posts on a sports forum, you don't understand the concept of "The Face of The Franchise".

Good Day Richie

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I do, it's just that I don't think it's all that relevant to an arena project. Certainly not something that would sink it, everything else being equal.