Prospect Info: Sven Andrighetto (Re-Called)

[Lebowski]

HSCA60

Andrighetto 8.61
Desharnais 10.54
Weise 10.18

SCA60

Andrighetto 21.65
Desharnais 26.47
Weise 26.20

CF%

Andrighetto 52.95%
Desharnais 51.41%
Weise 51.41%

SA60

Andrighetto 24.67
Desharnais 29.52
Weise 28.66

GA60

Andrighetto 1.40
Desharnais 2.14
Weise 2.17

GF%Rel

Andrighetto 20.26%
Desharnais 0.69%
Weise 1.06%

.
.
.

P60

Andrighetto 1.63
Desharnais 1.57
Weise 1.51

 

[BaseballCoach]

What is it that you expect from Desharnais and Weise on the first line?

How many of the 56 games this season has Desharnais played more minutes than Plekanec? How many times has Weise played more minutes than Gallagher?

What first line are you talking about? Why are you purposely exaggerating? In order to easily win an argument against yourself?

Right now the first line is the line that has three of our four best players on it, and it's not Weise's or Desharnais' lines.

 

[Lebowski]

How many of the 56 games this season has Desharnais played more minutes than Plekanec? How many times has Weise played more minutes than Gallagher?

What first line are you talking about? Why are you purposely exaggerating? In order to easily win an argument against yourself?

Right now the first line is the line that has three of our four best players on it, and it's not Weise's or Desharnais' lines.

Why are you being willingly dense? Whichever lines gets put in the best position to generate offense is the first line, and that tends to be the line where Pacioretty is on.

Desharnais is the 3rd forward in total ice-time on this team this season, and that's taking into account the beginning of the season where he played on the bottom-six.

Weise is sometimes used on the bottom six, sometimes on the top 6. When he plays with Pacioretty, he more likely than not gets the most favorable deployment and even 1st wave power-play time. As does Desharnais.

And if they were actually defensively responsible, maybe they'd actually see the ice on the penalty kill.

 

[montreal]

Hudon is a left winger. Andrighetto is used as a right winger on the Habs. I don't see how that'd work out.

The vets we're speaking of are being put in a position where they are a detriment to the team and fail at doing what's being argued as a flaw for Andrighetto. Something doesn't add up here. "Coaches know what to expect from vets"... What is it that you expect from Desharnais and Weise on the first line? More often than not it rhymes with no offensive production and a negative +/-. What is it that you expect out of Weise and Desharnais on the power-play? They have a total of 10 points in almost 400 minutes of power-play time this season. Safe to say we should be looking at other options at this point.

Hudon can also play Center, but even still they could have tried something like Hudon Eller Weise. it's not like they can't move other players around.

You can keep harping on DD/Weise but it won't change the fact that they are vets and held to different standards then rookies/prospects are. We could be in last place and you still would need to have a different standard for the rookies no matter how bad the rest of the team played.

 

[Lebowski]

Hudon can also play Center, but even still they could have tried something like Hudon Eller Weise. it's not like they can't move other players around.

So Fleischmann becomes the 2nd line RW? How does addressing the 3rd line LW spot affect in any way the situation on the top 6 RW, which is the question at hand with Andrighetto and Weise?

You can keep harping on DD/Weise but it won't change the fact that they are vets and held to different standards then rookies/prospects are. We could be in last place and you still would need to have a different standard for the rookies no matter how bad the rest of the team played.

Coaches with a spine do not spoon feed under performing players with prime minutes. Lecavalier in Philadelphia, for example. Hell, Vanek in Montréal rings a bell? Suddenly that doesn't apply to Weise and Desharnais? That's just hogwash. Rookies make their own room, and the whole argument we're having is whether Andrighetto has made enough room for himself to jump over Weise on the depth chart. The answer to that question is a resounding yes.

 

[TT1]

The usage of Weise and Andrighetto are closely related. If you disagree with the usage of Weise and Desharnais, it means you feel there are better options within the organization to fill in these spots.

And if Andrighetto isn't the one you'd put in Weise's spots, who would it be?

And if you disagree with Desharnais' usage, who should be in his spot? Galchenyuk? Because Galchenyuk has been moved to the wing for the very same reason Andrighetto was "reportedly" relegated to the bottom six.

And all of this is assuming Weise is a superior defensive player than Andrighetto in the first place. A notion I'm not in agreement with.

Your overall position on the matter doesn't make much sense to me. Circular reasoning if I've ever seen one. Feel free to clarify.

Weise isnt better than Ghetto defensively, in my eyes hes the worst defensive forward on our roster.

 

[Grant McCagg]

See too many posts opining that Andrighetto or Chuck need work on their defensive play to play prime offensive roles when both are already superior to DD in that regard. Just because you hear it from coach's and DD loving media members doesn't make it fact.

 

[Lebowski]

See too many posts opining that Andrighetto or Chuck need work on their defensive play to play prime offensive roles when both are already superior to DD in that regard. Just because you hear it from coach's and DD loving media members doesn't make it fact.

A million times this, and something I've been preaching for YEARS in Galchenyuk's case. And the vast majority of posters on this board will agree.

Therrien's bench management is downright mind boggling at times. Favoritism is one of the things that's holding this team back.

 

[Wats]

Okay you prove my point of people not following players. Tyler Seguin started off as a winger not a center so it doesn't matter what center was a head of him. When he eventual did start playing in the top 6 in BOS he played the wing

He was never exclusively winger though. Even at the age of 18 with Bergeron/Krejci he took over 300 faceoffs which strongly suggests he played multiple games at center even though he was playing 12-13 minutes on a cup winning team. Giroux was RW at first too but he was never exclusively RW, he too was eased into C through the first year of his NHL career.

To put this in perspective, Galchenyuk had to play 3 seasons in before having 300 faceoffs taken in his career due to the games at center being so little before this season. Galchenyuk's path to center is in a world of it's own.

 

[PernellsWhiteAmi]

Oh, please! When he first came up this year, he played with Galchenyuk and Eller (not just Eller) and was dynamic with jump in his step for a couple of games. He looked just fine playing with a proven middle six player like Eller.

But then he (by his own ADMISSION) slowed down and suddenly he no longer looked good playing with Eller. Well, duh.

He looked great when he played with Galchenyuk and Eller. But when Galchenyuk was off his line and he was playing with just Eller, it was clear that Andrighetto needed another creative offensive forward.

 

[montreal]

So Fleischmann becomes the 2nd line RW? How does addressing the 3rd line LW spot affect in any way the situation on the top 6 RW, which is the question at hand with Andrighetto and Weise?

Coaches with a spine do not spoon feed under performing players with prime minutes. Lecavalier in Philadelphia, for example. Hell, Vanek in Montréal rings a bell? Suddenly that doesn't apply to Weise and Desharnais? That's just hogwash. Rookies make their own room, and the whole argument we're having is whether Andrighetto has made enough room for himself to jump over Weise on the depth chart. The answer to that question is a resounding yes.

They don't have a full top 6, the only way to replace it is via trade or UFA. They were short a forward going into the season and losing Gallagher for a spell only made it worse.

Lecavalier was overhill and they were trying to get rid of him. Vanek was on the top line. Yes you try vets different then rookies, and Ghetto didn't show enough to be over Weise from his previous call up.

 

[Lebowski]

They don't have a full top 6, the only way to replace it is via trade or UFA. They were short a forward going into the season and losing Gallagher for a spell only made it worse.

Lecavalier was overhill and they were trying to get rid of him. Vanek was on the top line. Yes you try vets different then rookies, and Ghetto didn't show enough to be over Weise from his previous call up.

Vanek ended up on the 4th line. Did you forget that part?

I don't care how overhill Lecavalier is. You said veterans have to be treated a different way and that's just not true. Not even true in Montréal. It only applies to certain players who shall remain nameless.

And Ghetto, at every turn, when he was put in the same chair as Weise on the top line, performed. Weise is a bottom six players that doesn't bring the skill or the so-called defensive acumen to the top 6. Andrighetto is a better player than he is and can help with our scoring woes. He's not only a better fit on the top 6, he's also a better player.

I'm tired of repeating myself so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[PernellsWhiteAmi]

His defensive game hasn't improved tremendously imo and consistency has been his biggest issue in the AHL for sure. He just had his most consistent production in the AHL after he was sent down as he picked up 5 pts over a 5 game span, before that only 1 time this season did he pick up points in more then 3 games in a row.

What he needs to do first to stay in the NHL imo, is have a consistent effort at both ends of the ice every night, always keep his feet moving and hopefully the chances/production will follow no matter who he plays with.

Wow, that's quite the expectation. So a player isn't consistent if he can't score points in 4 straight games several times a season? 'Tis the assertion.

I also find it interesting that your standard for consistency is for a player to pick up points in more than 3 games in a row. I don't think you realize how rare that is from a player in the AHL or NHL. Although I disagree with your standard:

- In October, Sven scored points in 4 straight games, and 3 straight games. He had 9 points in 11 games.

-In November, Sven scored points in 3 straight games. He had 6 points in 6 games.

- In December, Sven scored 1 goal in 1 AHL game, as he got called up to the Habs.

- In January, Sven scored points in 5 straight games despite only playing in 8 AHL games. He had 7 points during those 8 games.


Although scoring points in each game for more than 3 games in a row has no relevance to a player's consistency, Sven scores points in each game for at least 3 games in a row 4 times, spanning across 15 of his 26 AHL games this season. Would Sven be more consistent if you moved your standard down from more than 3 games to at least 3 games?

 

[jaffy27]

See too many posts opining that Andrighetto or Chuck need work on their defensive play to play prime offensive roles when both are already superior to DD in that regard. Just because you hear it from coach's and DD loving media members doesn't make it fact.

How's your French Grant?.....I'd like to see you go on Antichambre for an episode and tear a new one into Gaston, Damphousse, Delorme and Darche, especially Darche, he used to be Jaque Martin's pet, it's why he's always at the defense of DD

 

[McGuires Corndog]

See too many posts opining that Andrighetto or Chuck need work on their defensive play to play prime offensive roles when both are already superior to DD in that regard. Just because you hear it from coach's and DD loving media members doesn't make it fact.

Well said.

It's an utter and clear bias by the coaching staff. There is no good reason why a team starved for offense doesn't put more thought into putting its best offensive players in a position to suceed.

Hell, even Hudon should get a crack in our top 6 at this point. It's blatantly obvious that Desharnais and Weise are not solutions to our scoring woes playing above 14 minutes a game and yet our brain dead coach and general manager continue to deploy these players in the same fashion and expecting different results.

Why not atleast try Hudon-Galchenyuk-Andrighetto as a line? There is some serious offensive skill there. Would it be below average defensively? Probably. But it's not like this roster the way it's currently assembled is playing well defensively, and it's certainly not creating any offense!

 

[montreal]

Vanek ended up on the 4th line. Did you forget that part?

I don't care how overhill Lecavalier is. You said veterans have to be treated a different way and that's just not true. Not even true in Montréal. It only applies to certain players who shall remain nameless.

And Ghetto, at every turn, when he was put in the same chair as Weise on the top line, performed. Weise is a bottom six players that doesn't bring the skill or the so-called defensive acumen to the top 6. Andrighetto is a better player than he is and can help with our scoring woes. He's not only a better fit on the top 6, he's also a better player.

I'm tired of repeating myself so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Was that in the playoffs, cause in the regular season Vanek was one of the reasons we even made the playoffs. Of course it's true that vets get treated differently then rookies, there may be some coaches out there that don't but I think you will find most aren't that way. Vinny is a totally different situation, they were trying to get him to retire so they could get out from under that terrible contract.

That's also not to say that vets can't be benched, just that they are most certainly held to different standards then rookies.

Weise brings different things then Ghetto, if Ghetto plays like he did last game, then he's easily better then Weise who is more suited to the bottom lines with his size and strength that Ghetto doesn't have.

Wow, that's quite the expectation. So a player isn't consistent if he can't score points in 4 straight games several times a season? 'Tis the assertion.

I also find it interesting that your standard for consistency is for a player to pick up points in more than 3 games in a row. I don't think you realize how rare that is from a player in the AHL or NHL. Although I disagree with your standard:

- In October, Sven scored points in 4 straight games, and 3 straight games. He had 9 points in 11 games.

-In November, Sven scored points in 3 straight games. He had 6 points in 6 games.

- In December, Sven scored 1 goal in 1 AHL game, as he got called up to the Habs.

- In January, Sven scored points in 5 straight games despite only playing in 8 AHL games. He had 7 points during those 8 games.


Although scoring points in each game for more than 3 games in a row has no relevance to a player's consistency, Sven scores points in each game for at least 3 games in a row 4 times, spanning across 15 of his 26 AHL games this season. Would Sven be more consistent if you moved your standard down from more than 3 games to at least 3 games?

Being consistent is getting a point most nights, Ghetto hasn't done that. As I said, when he was sent back he had pts in 5 games, that was his most consistent stretch on the season. Before that one time he had 4 games in a row with a point.

Here's how he's done this year,

first 2 games 0 pts
next 4 games 6 pts
next 2 games 0 pts
next 3 games 3 pts
next 3 games 0 pts
next 3 games 6 pts

that's 17 games total, 15 pts but 7 of 17 he didn't have a single point.

then he goes to the NHL,
first 3 games 2 pts
next 3 games 0 pts
next 3 games 2 pts
next 5 games 1 pt

that's 14 games, 5 pts but in 7 of 14 he didn't have a single point.

then he goes to play 1 game in the AHL, 1 pt

then he comes back to the NHL,
3 games, 0 pts

then he goes to the AHL and plays his best,
8 games, 7 pts

then he comes back to the NHL,
4 games, 0 pts
next game 2 pts

 

[Jakomyte]

They don't have a full top 6, the only way to replace it is via trade or UFA. They were short a forward going into the season and losing Gallagher for a spell only made it worse.

Lecavalier was overhill and they were trying to get rid of him. Vanek was on the top line. Yes you try vets different then rookies, and Ghetto didn't show enough to be over Weise from his previous call up.

FA/trade isn't the only way to fill your top 6 spots. At some point, when you need players to fill in the top 6, and you have prospects in the AHL that have the potential to play there, you have to give them a real chance. I'm not talking about rookies like Scherbak and McCarron, but guys like Carr/Andrighetto/Hudon should get their shot to be viable alternatives. I'm not sure why it seems like the coach has been so reluctant to put them where they belong when they are called up in place of guys like Desharnais and Weise considering how the latter two haven't done much for the past 40 games.

I mean would this really be that crazy:

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Gallagher
Hudon-Plekanec-Andrighetto
Desharnais-Eller-Fleishmann
Byron-Mitchell-Weise

I find it hard to believe this lineup would produce FEWER goals than what Therrien has rolled with during this apocalypse of a slump.

 

[Patccmoi]

Being consistent is getting a point most nights, Ghetto hasn't done that. As I said, when he was sent back he had pts in 5 games, that was his most consistent stretch on the season. Before that one time he had 4 games in a row with a point.
...

Seriously, that's how nearly all offensive players are. Players that get 60-70 points a year don't have a very even point production all across the season (at least the vast majority don't). They get a few games with a point in a row or 2-3 in one, then go a few games not having points, then produce some more, etc.

What you described from Andrighetto is about as consistent as it gets. It's not like he had 9 points in 4 games and then 8 games without a point, and then another 2 games with 4 points.

Players more consistent than that are a rarity.

 

[DAChampion]

Seriously, that's how nearly all offensive players are. Players that get 60-70 points a year don't have a very even point production all across the season (at least the vast majority don't). They get a few games with a point in a row or 2-3 in one, then go a few games not having points, then produce some more, etc.

What you described from Andrighetto is about as consistent as it gets. It's not like he had 9 points in 4 games and then 8 games without a point, and then another 2 games with 4 points.

Players more consistent than that are a rarity.

What montreal might not understand is that it's actually extremely unlikely for a player to be perfectly consistent. I used matlab's poissrnd function to generate the point production you might expect from a "50-point" player over 82 games:

1
0
0
0
1
1
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
1
1
1
0
1
0
2
1
2
0
0
2
0
0
0
0
2
1
0
0
0
0
1
1
0
0
0
2
0
0
0
0
0
0
3
2
0
1
0
0
1
1
0
1
0
1
1
0
1
1
0
0
1
0
0
1
1
1
0
0
0
3
0
2
1
0
0
0

Notice how often there are multiple consecutive zero-point games. And this is with the theoretical maximal level of consistency. Real NHL players will have even less consistency due to injuries and lines changes. Also notice how even though I created the ideal 50 point player, he only scored 45 points.

 

[Doc McKenna]

It really stupid when poster demand that our prospects start playing in the top 6 and getting PP time immediately.

It really shows some people don't follow hockey too close, Not even the Montreal Canadiens let alone other leagues or other NHL teams.

Have people heard of Tyler Seguin??? Surprisingly this AllStar started his his career on the 3rd and 4th line and played there a few seasons.

Not one of these guys started playing in the Top 6 when they started there NHL career: Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Plekanec and Gallagher.
PK Subban didn't start in the top 2 pairing.

If you follow othe NHL teams you will see that the stars of today started in the bottom 6 when they came into the league ( of coarse there is always exceptions like Crosby and McDavid....etc) But it is more normal to start on the bottom 6 and work your self up the line up.
.

Brilliant example. A guy that wasn't used properly and got traded for peanuts. Goes to a good coach and plays at a PPG level.

Starting at the bottom 6 is one thing, but when you have injuries and the TYPE of player says they belong on the top 6. You don't move Brian Fn Flynn to the top line and put the kid on the forth. This is Chuckie all over. He started on the 3 rd line with eller. If he wasn't ready to play put him back in the minors.

He was ready. Next 3 year including this one he is learning what with pleks as his center, how not to use your wingers well? Either develop a guy properly or don't. Starting there is fine, if they show they have the ability let them play in the right position and make their mistake to learn from them. You don't learn anything from not making mistakes, or being severely punished if you do.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Oh, please! When he first came up this year, he played with Galchenyuk and Eller (not just Eller) and was dynamic with jump in his step for a couple of games. He looked just fine playing with a proven middle six player like Eller.

But then he (by his own ADMISSION) slowed down and suddenly he no longer looked good playing with Eller. Well, duh.

No he wasn't is this just pulled from you know where. Therrien dumped him from the third line(AG and eller) with 11 minutes a game down to the forth with 7 minutes a game. Hard to score playing with DSP and Flynn (mitchell was injured) getting less than 10 minutes a game starting in the D zone for most draws and no PP time. I swear people are not watching the games.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Hudon is a left winger. Andrighetto is used as a right winger on the Habs. I don't see how that'd work out.



The vets we're speaking of are being put in a position where they are a detriment to the team and fail at doing what's being argued as a flaw for Andrighetto. Something doesn't add up here. "Coaches know what to expect from vets"... What is it that you expect from Desharnais and Weise on the first line? More often than not it rhymes with no offensive production and a negative +/-. What is it that you expect out of Weise and Desharnais on the power-play? They have a total of 10 points in almost 400 minutes of power-play time this season. Safe to say we should be looking at other options at this point.



Neither is Weise.

If weise was good defensively wouldn't MT use him on the PK? He doesn't so that kinds finishes any argument that people say Weise is good defensively(at least in the eyes of MT).

 

[NotProkofievian]

No he wasn't is this just pulled from you know where. Therrien dumped him from the third line(AG and eller) with 11 minutes a game down to the forth with 7 minutes a game. Hard to score playing with DSP and Flynn (mitchell was injured) getting less than 10 minutes a game starting in the D zone for most draws and no PP time. I swear people are not watching the games.

It seems like this always happens. A kid gets called up, produces right away, and then gets relegated to the lower lines, or sent back down. This is not development. What message is he supposed to take from this pattern, when he sees players like Desharnais get 2 and half minutes of PP time per night despite never producing with those minutes? It's a recipe for frustration and stagnation.

 

[yianik]

People are talking about us going after 30 year old UFAs who we will expect to score about 25 goals, and we will have to pay then $5-6M per for 5,6,7 years.

Cap may be stagnant or coming down in coming years.

We have guys like Price , Chucky to resign.

To me it makes a whole lot more sense to give our prospects real shots at proving what they can do. Ghetto and Carr may be 20 goal guys, not sure yet. Then there are others who need NHL time this year, like Hudon, give Big Mac another go.

The difference between stars and others is consistency. That is why stars score 35, 50 goaks and then you have 20 goal guys, 50 point players. Unless Ghetto is a 40 goal guy, people will always say he is not consistent.

I would be thrilled if a couple of prospects can be 20 goal scoreres , we need that.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

People are talking about us going after 30 year old UFAs who we will expect to score about 25 goals, and we will have to pay then $5-6M per for 5,6,7 years.

Cap may be stagnant or coming down in coming years.

We have guys like Price , Chucky to resign.

To me it makes a whole lot more sense to give our prospects real shots at proving what they can do. Ghetto and Carr may be 20 goal guys, not sure yet. Then there are others who need NHL time this year, like Hudon, give Big Mac another go.

The difference between stars and others is consistency. That is why stars score 35, 50 goaks and then you have 20 goal guys, 50 point players. Unless Ghetto is a 40 goal guy, people will always say he is not consistent.

I would be thrilled if a couple of prospects can be 20 goal scoreres , we need that.

I think all of Ghetto/Hudon/Carr can be 15+goal guys in the right environment, coach needs to be willing to use them though. He seems to like Carr because he has that Gallagher esque grind to his game.

Therrien's biggest fault is expecting every player to play the same way and expecting different results.