Stephen Weiss

[Actual Thought*]

12 points in 16 games seems like a decent commodity to me. Compared to the rest of the time we have had Weiss, his stock right now is comparably high. Also, considering it's widely believed we are actively looking to make a trade to bolster defence, it's not unthinkable we are fishing Weiss around.

Now, you could argue how successful we will be, certainly. Feel free to offer your own explanation for why he's playing 4th line minutes. I personally don't think it's because he's playing semi-injured or because Babcock wants to shelter him from further injury.

He has a nmc. He isn't going to be traded. I suspect he is still nursing a sore shoulder. They want to get him healthy.

 

[Dotter]

since weiss has been producing lately, perhaps his diminished minutes ir our attempt to keep him from getting injured due to us actively using him as trade bait.

nmc??

 

[RedWingsDad]

He has a nmc. He isn't going to be traded. I suspect he is still nursing a sore shoulder. They want to get him healthy.

nmc??

I didn't realize he had a NMC. I did a quick internet search and found an article on his signing that didn't mention it... should have looked further obviously.

 

[Frk It]

Babcock said Weiss has been fine, but he must take someone else's minutes.

"I think he's battling real hard, now he has to take someone's job," Babcock said. "That's how it is."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/01/red_wings_tomas_jurco_playing.html

 

[Dotter]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/01/red_wings_tomas_jurco_playing.html

Babcock did say the tie doesn't go to the vet anymore.

 

[The Geelee]

Summer buyout incoming, Sheahan pretty much stole his role as 2C, Doesn't fit this team anymore

 

[detredWINgs]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/01/red_wings_tomas_jurco_playing.html

What the....? He was playing great hockey, got injured, and now has to steal someone else's minutes because of it? In no world was Weiss being outplayed by Jurco or Franzen prior to his demotion.

This is why I can't ever get behind Babcock long term. Weiss had 10 points in 8 games where he was seeing 10-14 minutes of TOI per night, then he goes pointless for two games where he is still seeing 11-13 minutes and all of a sudden he's getting 7-8 minutes a game? And the crazy thing is, Weiss only went without a point for 3 games. He played 8 minutes against Buffalo, scored a goal, and then the next game still had less than 9 minutes.

There's no way Weiss can feel like he's getting a fair shake under Babcock. Wouldn't be surprised if Weiss would actually be willing to waive his NTC if he stays healthy and this continues. Weiss is probably calling up Val to commiserate as we speak.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

What the....? He was playing great hockey, got injured, and now has to steal someone else's minutes because of it? In no world was Weiss being outplayed by Jurco or Franzen prior to his demotion.

This is why I can't ever get behind Babcock long term. Weiss had 10 points in 8 games where he was seeing 10-14 minutes of TOI per night, then he goes pointless for two games where he is still seeing 11-13 minutes and all of a sudden he's getting 7-8 minutes a game? And the crazy thing is, Weiss only went without a point for 3 games. He played 8 minutes against Buffalo, scored a goal, and then the next game still had less than 9 minutes.

There's no way Weiss can feel like he's getting a fair shake under Babcock. Wouldn't be surprised if Weiss would actually be willing to waive his NTC if he stays healthy and this continues. Weiss is probably calling up Val to commiserate as we speak.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember his ice time taking a hit as soon as he came back from the shoulder injury. I am not sure what that is about exactly.

He certainly isn't the same player he was in FLA. His skating has taken a hit from the groin injuries. I am not sure that he will ever get back to being a legit number two NHL center. My fear is that his skating just won't allow it. He still, however, has a bunch of value on the PP and can still contribute some offense on the bottom two lines (or perhaps as a second-line winger). I think he has great vision down low and in tight spaces...still has nice hands.

I too would like him to be seeing more than eight minutes a night, but I am not going to act like he is the player we thought that we were getting.

 

[BinCookin]

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember his ice time taking a hit as soon as he came back from the shoulder injury. I am not sure what that is about exactly.

He certainly isn't the same player he was in FLA. His skating has taken a hit from the groin injuries. I am not sure that he will ever get back to being a legit number two NHL center. My fear is that his skating just won't allow it. He still, however, has a bunch of value on the PP and can still contribute some offense on the bottom two lines (or perhaps as a second-line winger). I think he has great vision down low and in tight spaces...still has nice hands.

I too would like him to be seeing more than eight minutes a night, but I am not going to act like he is the player we thought that we were getting.

he has 12 pts in 16 GP. That is 0.75 PPG.

Nyquist has 0.66 PPG
Tatar has 0.66 PPG

He is the 3rd best producing player on the team.

Dont even get me started on points per 60 min. Ill be you he would be #1 on the team.

His Ice time doesn't add up with his play.

Legwand didn't produce alot. Weiss has produced much more!

 

[TheOtherOne]

he has 12 pts in 16 GP. That is 0.75 PPG.

Nyquist has 0.66 PPG
Tatar has 0.66 PPG

He is the 3rd best producing player on the team.

Dont even get me started on points per 60 min. Ill be you he would be #1 on the team.

His Ice time doesn't add up with his play.

Legwand didn't produce alot. Weiss has produced much more!

I like the current version of Weiss and would be happy to see him on the first line right now.

But don't go around making PPG comparisons with a 16 game sample size. It doesn't do your argument any favors. The best you can say right now is "let's give him more time to see if he keeps it up."

 

[Actual Thought*]

What the....? He was playing great hockey, got injured, and now has to steal someone else's minutes because of it? In no world was Weiss being outplayed by Jurco or Franzen prior to his demotion.

This is why I can't ever get behind Babcock long term. Weiss had 10 points in 8 games where he was seeing 10-14 minutes of TOI per night, then he goes pointless for two games where he is still seeing 11-13 minutes and all of a sudden he's getting 7-8 minutes a game? And the crazy thing is, Weiss only went without a point for 3 games. He played 8 minutes against Buffalo, scored a goal, and then the next game still had less than 9 minutes.

There's no way Weiss can feel like he's getting a fair shake under Babcock. Wouldn't be surprised if Weiss would actually be willing to waive his NTC if he stays healthy and this continues. Weiss is probably calling up Val to commiserate as we speak.

Really? I love the idea that players earn their ice. If a guy like Weiss falls out hurt and a guy like Jurco gets his minutes the benefit is twofold. Jurco is gonna work hard because he knows Weiss is breathing down his neck. If he wants to keep his minutes and sign a huge deal someday he has to fight off Weiss. On the other hand you have Weiss who is a veteran guy. He knows what is going on. If he is a character guy he will just grind in the minutes he gets and earn more I.T. This is what having depth is. It isn't just that you can fill a position when injuries happen. It is also competition for ice time which is very healthy.

 

[TheOtherOne]

I think in principle, "you have to earn your job" is a good thing.

But I think in this case, Weiss already earned Jurco's job.

 

[BinCookin]

Really? I love the idea that players earn their ice. If a guy like Weiss falls out hurt and a guy like Jurco gets his minutes the benefit is twofold. Jurco is gonna work hard because he knows Weiss is breathing down his neck. If he wants to keep his minutes and sign a huge deal someday he has to fight off Weiss. On the other hand you have Weiss who is a veteran guy. He knows what is going on. If he is a character guy he will just grind in the minutes he gets and earn more I.T. This is what having depth is. It isn't just that you can fill a position when injuries happen. It is also competition for ice time which is very healthy.

You are suggesting Jurco has earned Weiss's spot? I would state the opposite. Jurco has to earn a spot on this team IMO.

Who has taken Weiss's Job? We have scoring issues right now.. and honestly Jurco doesn't help at all in this regard.

 

[BinCookin]

I like the current version of Weiss and would be happy to see him on the first line right now.

But don't go around making PPG comparisons with a 16 game sample size. It doesn't do your argument any favors. The best you can say right now is "let's give him more time to see if he keeps it up."

I think we are in agreement anyway.

Regardless of Stats. Weiss has played fine this year. He has produced well.

Jurco to me has underperformed badly. I honestly think he should be in the AHL right now. (Or at least borderline). Franzen probably deserves a shift on the 4th line for a game.

So... I don't see how Weiss has "lost his job"

Arguably better players this year:

Dat, Z, Sheah, Tats, Goose, Helm, Abby. Thats about it. That still leaves lots of room on the top 9 IMO.

 

[ElysiumAB]

The "you have to take someone's spot" mantra doesn't hold its water when Clearly has played about 25% of the games this year. He's done less than nothing over a HUGE sample size and when he plays he sees the same TOI that Weiss is now.

 

[Actual Thought*]

You are suggesting Jurco has earned Weiss's spot? I would state the opposite. Jurco has to earn a spot on this team IMO.

Who has taken Weiss's Job? We have scoring issues right now.. and honestly Jurco doesn't help at all in this regard.

Without analyzing ice time numbers I couldn't actually say who got his minutes or how many got his minutes. I was merely presenting a hypothetical example of why competition is good. I know that isn't a popular position here but it is the correct position.

 

[BinCookin]

Without analyzing ice time numbers I couldn't actually say who got his minutes or how many got his minutes. I was merely presenting a hypothetical example of why competition is good. I know that isn't a popular position here but it is the correct position.

I agree competition is good.

I just wonder if a slumping alfredsson would be put on the 4th line?
Could Franzen be put on the 4th line?
Is Eriksson going to get moved down in the lineup to a #5/6 spot?

Babcock just doesn't seem to have a track record for moving people up and down the lineup when they are in slumps or when they are hot to create competition. Babcock often rides the same guys on expectations based on passed results.

I am not sure what the right choices are. I am just a fan. But I am not sure if he is behind 100% competition and accountability.

 

[Frk It]

You are suggesting Jurco has earned Weiss's spot? I would state the opposite. Jurco has to earn a spot on this team IMO.

Who has taken Weiss's Job? We have scoring issues right now.. and honestly Jurco doesn't help at all in this regard.

Jurco is playing 12 minutes a night on the season. If you are looking for a place to cut someone's minutes to give to Weiss, that's not the place. And minutes are good for Jurco's development.

 

[TheOtherOne]

The "you have to take someone's spot" mantra doesn't hold its water when Clearly has played about 25% of the games this year. He's done less than nothing over a HUGE sample size and when he plays he sees the same TOI that Weiss is now.

Cleary is kind of an irrelevant point to make. The only spot he took this year was Andersson's and that was pretty much a wash in terms of one earning it over the other.

 

[Actual Thought*]

I agree competition is good.

I just wonder if a slumping alfredsson would be put on the 4th line?
Could Franzen be put on the 4th line?
Is Eriksson going to get moved down in the lineup to a #5/6 spot?

Babcock just doesn't seem to have a track record for moving people up and down the lineup when they are in slumps or when they are hot to create competition. Babcock often rides the same guys on expectations based on passed results.

I am not sure what the right choices are. I am just a fan. But I am not sure if he is behind 100% competition and accountability.

I think when you bring a guy like Alf into the equation it is a bit different. The guy is a HOF candidate. Without question guys like him do all the right things and bring it every shift. There is never a doubt that you are getting the best he has to offer. Guys like that aren't really competing for jobs as much as setting the bar. It's a bit murkier with a guy like Weiss. However I am not as worried that Weiss won't pan out now as I was before his return. The guy has faced a ton of adversity. I don't think at this point a few 4th line minutes are gonna crack him.

 

[BinCookin]

I think when you bring a guy like Alf into the equation it is a bit different. The guy is a HOF candidate. Without question guys like him do all the right things and bring it every shift. There is never a doubt that you are getting the best he has to offer. Guys like that aren't really competing for jobs as much as setting the bar. It's a bit murkier with a guy like Weiss. However I am not as worried that Weiss won't pan out now as I was before his return. The guy has faced a ton of adversity. I don't think at this point a few 4th line minutes are gonna crack him.

Well lets hope he gets a hattrick on the 4th line

Then they have to move him up. I feel like he can produce if we put him in the right spot.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Weiss is absolutely NOT getting a fair shake from Babs. He says he has to take someone's job, that's fine if that player (Jurco) were playing great. But Jurco hasn't done anything to keep that spot. Why give Jurco the benefit of the doubt instead of Weiss when it was Weiss that was performing well when given the minutes. I just don't get it.

 

[ashenhigh]

Weiss is outplaying Franzen, no way you can deny that.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

They just want to get him healthy because he's nursing a bad shoulder guys.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Well lets hope he gets a hattrick on the 4th line

Then they have to move him up. I feel like he can produce if we put him in the right spot.

I think Weiss is still a potential win for us. He just needs to stay healthy. Maybe he needs to play low, sheltered minutes for a bit to stay in shape while he heals up. If he is nursing a sore shoulder it might be a great way to keep his body in game shape while he heals. The guy had a lot of time off the ice over the last two years. I just want him to be healthy for the playoffs. We are a lot deeper with healthy Weiss.