Stamkos Debate - PreDeadline 2016

[Pookie]

Yea me too, that was the point.

We will be tight to sign him if we do.... we are pretty tight on the cap, I guess depending on who plays for the Leafs next year. Sure we could fit Stamkos (Was worried with the Bickle talk), after next year..... its smooth sailing.

Leafs are being called the best cap team currently in the NHL. I'm sure that factors in that we are more than willing to spend to the ceiling, unlike Arizona.

What factors is that the brand needs a boost. Stamkos will get a look by the Leafs. No question.

Best cap team right now... there's a reason.

 

[Faltorvo]

Well, I'd rather pay Stammer at $10.5 than Boedker at $6.5 million.

I'd rather have stammer as Marners Center , then any other "reasonably" available option.

 

[Dough72]

nevermind

 

[slozo]

Well, I'd rather pay Stammer at $10.5 than Boedker at $6.5 million.

EXACTLY!
Boedker is probably going to be overpaid, there's very little chance he becomes a 30 goal scorer in the league, since he's never scored 20 goals.

But even if you think Stamkos will be overpaid at 11 mil say . . . because he isn't Sydney Crosby or Alex Ovechkin . . . can you even get anyone who is close in value to that on the open market?

Like, Loui Eriksson for instance . . . he'll be a UFA I believe. Ok, he's scored over 30 goals once before. And he's had concussion issues and struggles to score 20 now. Sure you could pay him . . . what, 5 mil? 4.5 mil? You want to overpay on that?

Who do you guys want to overpay on, and why do you think overpaying on a few less talented players is better than overpaying on one elite scorer?

 

[Babcocks Marner]

What factors is that the brand needs a boost. Stamkos will get a look by the Leafs. No question.

Best cap team right now... there's a reason.

Yea, but like I said.... we are really tight on cap. People like to toss out numbers without thinking.

Honestly, looking at the numbers, we will need to move a salary guy out to sign Stammer. 54+Mil already.... still need to sign Kadri (Who I think they will trade if we get Stamkos = problem solved) and Rielly. Even at only 4mil/each, pushes us to 62mil, with 3 holes on Defense.... and not even counting that Russian.

Lou will have some magic to work. Fitting Kadri and Stamkos will be very hard unless a Lupul/Bozak is moved. We only gotta make it work next year, after that, we gravy.

 

[Stephen]

Well, Kadri isn't going to cost that much in terms of a cap hit, because even if he gets a $1.5 million raise, that's only a small increase on the total cap hit. Rielly will get a big raise. Stamkos will take up a nice chunk of money. But then Robidas and Lupul could be LTIR and Bozak and Bernier's futures are uncertain. Cowen will be bought out.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs

And then one year out, like you say, we'll be in the clear with Laich, Greening, Robidas are all gone.

 

[Faltorvo]

Yea, but like I said.... we are really tight on cap. People like to toss out numbers without thinking.

Honestly, looking at the numbers, we will need to move a salary guy out to sign Stammer. 54+Mil already.... still need to sign Kadri (Who I think they will trade if we get Stamkos = problem solved) and Rielly. Even at only 4mil/each, pushes us to 62mil, with 3 holes on Defense.... and not even counting that Russian.

Lou will have some magic to work. Fitting Kadri and Stamkos will be very hard unless a Lupul/Bozak is moved. We only gotta make it work next year, after that, we gravy.

Cowan has a 3.1m cap hit , his buy out gives us a +650k cap credit , so add those together to get the full effect.

IF lupul does not get "robidod" , I see him as a strong buy out candidate

5.25m cap hit turns into a 1.5m buyout hit

so with those 2 moves

cowen= 3.75m cap adjustment
Lupul = 3.75m adj

7.5 million cap adjustment and that gets us past next years "bottle neck"

 

[Stephen]

Does Lupul's buyout actually shrink that much?

 

[slozo]

Yea, but like I said.... we are really tight on cap. People like to toss out numbers without thinking.

Honestly, looking at the numbers, we will need to move a salary guy out to sign Stammer. 54+Mil already.... still need to sign Kadri (Who I think they will trade if we get Stamkos = problem solved) and Rielly. Even at only 4mil/each, pushes us to 62mil, with 3 holes on Defense.... and not even counting that Russian.

Lou will have some magic to work. Fitting Kadri and Stamkos will be very hard unless a Lupul/Bozak is moved. We only gotta make it work next year, after that, we gravy.

You accuse others of tossing out numbers without thinking . . . but that's exactly what you are doing.
You toss out a few salaries and guesses, and then expect us to just agree with you that we'd need to move out a salary to fit Stamkos in. Which isn't necessarily true at all, since there are many moving parts in that equation. But even if it were, you then treat that problem as near impossible, as if moving out bigger contracts were magic - even after we've just gone through a year and a half of trading/disppearing Clarkson, Kessel, Robidas, Phaneuf.

At the very least, look at the recent history and learn from it.
ANYTHING is possible in terms of moving out big contracts. And this current regime has been EXCELLENT at doing that so far.

I think the naysayers like to toss out scenarios without thinking.

 

[ACC1224]

I have yet to hear anywhere that cap would be a concern to sign Stamkos this summer.

 

[Faltorvo]

Does Lupul's buyout actually shrink that much?

Lups=

1.5
3.0
1.5
1.5

as per "capfriendly" calculator

 

[6ix]

If we do sign Stammer I think it would be wise to front load the contract.

Reason being is a lot of our kids will be on ELC or bridge deals so we can afford to have his cap hit extremely high for the first 3 years.

Year 1: 15 mill
Year 2: 15 mill
Year 3: 12 mill
Year 4: 7 mill
Year 5: 7 mill
Year 6: 7 mill
Year 7: 7 mill

That's basing off him signing a 7 year $70 mill deal.

 

[Faltorvo]

You accuse others of tossing out numbers without thinking . . . but that's exactly what you are doing.
You toss out a few salaries and guesses, and then expect us to just agree with you that we'd need to move out a salary to fit Stamkos in. Which isn't necessarily true at all, since there are many moving parts in that equation. But even if it were, you then treat that problem as near impossible, as if moving out bigger contracts were magic - even after we've just gone through a year and a half of trading/disppearing Clarkson, Kessel, Robidas, Phaneuf.

At the very least, look at the recent history and learn from it.
ANYTHING is possible in terms of moving out big contracts. And this current regime has been EXCELLENT at doing that so far.

I think the naysayers like to toss out scenarios without thinking.

Actually BM was pretty accurate

I'd argue using the descriptor "magic" might not have been the best but

no magic needed when you have 2 pretty obvious buy out candidates in Cowen/Lups.

 

[ACC1224]

If we do sign Stammer I think it would be wise to front load the contract.

Reason being is a lot of our kids will be on ELC or bridge deals so we can afford to have his cap hit extremely high for the first 3 years.

Year 1: 15 mill
Year 2: 15 mill
Year 3: 12 mill
Year 4: 7 mill
Year 5: 7 mill
Year 6: 7 mill
Year 7: 7 mill

Cap hit is the average of the entire contract, not year to year.

In your exanmple, cap = 10 per year

 

[Stephen]

If we do sign Stammer I think it would be wise to front load the contract.

Reason being is a lot of our kids will be on ELC or bridge deals so we can afford to have his cap hit extremely high for the first 3 years.

Year 1: 15 mill
Year 2: 15 mill
Year 3: 12 mill
Year 4: 7 mill
Year 5: 7 mill
Year 6: 7 mill
Year 7: 7 mill

That's basing off him signing a 7 year $70 mill deal.

Agreed. I'd pay him up front as much as possible as an incentive for him to sign. It also protects the organization in the event he doesn't work out and can be shipped to a non cap team as a contingent.

 

[6ix]

Cap hit is the average of the entire contract, not year to year.

In your exanmple, cap = 10 per year

Disappointing

 

[ACC1224]

Disappointing

Just one of the many things that suck where the cap is concerned.

 

[slozo]

Actually BM was pretty accurate

I'd argue using the descriptor "magic" might not have been the best but

no magic needed when you have 2 pretty obvious buy out candidates in Cowen/Lups.

So if you have two really obvious buyout candidates . . . then it's not really accurate, is it?

 

[Faltorvo]

So if you have two really obvious buyout candidates . . . then it's not really accurate, is it?

Well, he stated that we will have to make moves to fit stammer and those others

and that we have a "bottle neck" next year

those are accurate statements, IMO

it's just that the "fix" does not require "magic" say like losing Clarkson,kessel,dion cap hits.


our "fix" is pretty standard and easy

 

[Stephen]

Well, he stated that we will have to make moves to fit stammer and those others

and that we have a "bottle neck" next year

those are accurate statements, IMO

it's just that the "fix" does not require "magic" say like losing Clarkson,kessel,dion cap hits.


our "fix" is pretty standard and easy

I'm actually not seeing much of a problem at all.

 

[Faltorvo]

I'm actually not seeing much of a problem at all.

Without buy outs?

and going for stammer?

 

[Babcocks Marner]

You accuse others of tossing out numbers without thinking . . . but that's exactly what you are doing.
You toss out a few salaries and guesses, and then expect us to just agree with you that we'd need to move out a salary to fit Stamkos in. Which isn't necessarily true at all, since there are many moving parts in that equation. But even if it were, you then treat that problem as near impossible, as if moving out bigger contracts were magic - even after we've just gone through a year and a half of trading/disppearing Clarkson, Kessel, Robidas, Phaneuf.

At the very least, look at the recent history and learn from it.
ANYTHING is possible in terms of moving out big contracts. And this current regime has been EXCELLENT at doing that so far.

I think the naysayers like to toss out scenarios without thinking.

WTF are you talking about?

We have 54mil ALREADY signed for next year. That is a FACT.

Then I gave Rielly and Kadri very low contracts just to show how tight we are.

We have to make all these moves with 17million. Still Two holes on Defense.

Why don't you read the last page, where I do support Stamkos.

You have 17million.... and then tell me we don't have to move a large chunk of salary???????? Regardless if that is a trade, buyout, w.e.

And who said impossible? Do you even read? I said Lou has to work some magic.... does that sound like impossible to you? Even buying out Lupul.... It's tight, VERY TIGHT, as I said, ONLY for 1 year..... Geez.

Simple.... 54+10 = 64/71 cap. No Rielly, no Kadri, no Zaitsev, no Vessey, all UFA replaced with ECLs........ But we don't need to move salary off the books, and Lou doesn't have to work some magic? ok there....

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Cowan has a 3.1m cap hit , his buy out gives us a +650k cap credit , so add those together to get the full effect.

IF lupul does not get "robidod" , I see him as a strong buy out candidate

5.25m cap hit turns into a 1.5m buyout hit

so with those 2 moves

cowen= 3.75m cap adjustment
Lupul = 3.75m adj

7.5 million cap adjustment and that gets us past next years "bottle neck"

Wow... Somebody that gets it and is willing to have a real conversation to the moves we need to make in order to put this whole team together ..... and I am trying to include Stamkos here... not sure why Pro-Stammer are jumping all over me

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Well, he stated that we will have to make moves to fit stammer and those others

and that we have a "bottle neck" next year

those are accurate statements, IMO

it's just that the "fix" does not require "magic" say like losing Clarkson,kessel,dion cap hits.


our "fix" is pretty standard and easy

Sorry, working magic is just a saying. Nothing magical about it

 

[Faltorvo]

Wow... Somebody that gets it and is willing to have a real conversation to the moves we need to make in order to put this whole team together ..... and I am trying to include Stamkos here... not sure why Pro-Stammer are jumping all over me

Well to be honest Babs I had to read your post twice

at first glance, you did kinda make it sound like this was "not possible" or at the least "very tough to pull off".

and I fully agree, I am so glad we avoided adding Bickells dead contract.