So, seriously, who is getting traded?

[UsernameWasTaken]

Basically all teams.

http://www.capgeek.com/payrolls/?charts_year=2014 from Vancouver all the way down. 18 teams give or take.

I'd highlight Florida, Arizona, Winnipeg, Calgary, Buffalo, San Jose, Carolina, New Jersey.

Everyone, literally everyone can use Nick Leddy. Hawks fans need a whipping boy and he's been it, doesn't mean he's been bad or anything close to bad. Look at his numbers, advanced or counting stats. They are in rarified air for a defensemen his age.

Leaving aside San Jose, because I assume it will continue to do well in the regular season (and apparently it's a budget team), despite what the critics say, you've identified 7 other teams that are likely to have a high draft pick and who Leddy alone wouldn't be a difference maker. Why would those teams risk their first for Leddy? I know you said it should be a 2016 first - but would any team - competitive of not - give up a 2016 prior to the start of the 2014-15 season? And re San Jose - I don't see them wanting to deal a 1st for him. What's he going to do for the team?

 

[Taze em]

Leaving aside San Jose, because I assume it will continue to do well in the regular season (and apparently it's a budget team), despite what the critics say, you've identified 7 other teams that are likely to have a high draft pick and who Leddy alone wouldn't be a difference maker. Why would those teams risk their first for Leddy? I know you said it should be a 2016 first - but would any team - competitive of not - give up a 2016 prior to the start of the 2014-15 season?

Because those teams aren't projecting themselves to be bad for that long. If they are, those GMs need to be worried about losing their jobs. If they are worried about losing there jobs they need to make something happen very soon.

Look at Chevy or Tallon as illustrations of that point.

 

[Taze em]

And re San Jose - I don't see them wanting to deal a 1st for him. What's he going to do for the team?

I think you might be wrong here. Leddy is exactly what San Jose needs, their most popular blog has written multiple times this offseason imploring Murray to trade a 1st+(!) for Leddy. No comments on the articles or replies on twitter saying he is crazy, only people saying "awesome but Murray is a joke and would never do it".

Murray has his feet to the fire, his 1st isn't worth as much, has the cap room and has his fans and his blogosphere asking him to do it.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Because those teams aren't projecting themselves to be bad for that long. If they are, those GMs need to be worried about losing their jobs. If they are worried about losing there jobs they need to make something happen very soon.

Look at Chevy or Tallon as illustrations of that point.

I really doubt any of the GMs of those teams are so confident they'd flip a 1st almost 2 years prior to the draft.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Who has said Versteeg has value?

I'm saying Versteeg is a good player that we will need this year and Bowman doesn't want to give him away because he is a valuable asset to the team. He would be willing to trade away other assets that can give our team more assets, like an Oduya or Leddy. They also give the team wiggle room in case of injury, if moved.

No I didn't, I said I don't think Bowman wants to give him away.

No idea where anybody would get that idea.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Which would make things tight. Doesn't mean we cant keep one of Oduya/Leddy/Versteeg. Between the cap's projected raise and possibly trading away Bickell and Sharp, we'll be fine.

...

Toews and Kane signed matching 10.5 million per deals awhile ago.

 

[CallMeShaft]

...

Toews and Kane signed matching 10.5 million per deals awhile ago.

I'm aware, Hawkaholic thought that we wouldn't be able to keep any of Oduya/Leddy/Versteeg next year. I was simply implying that while 10.5mil per for each Toews and Kane would be a lot, we could still move some minor pieces to keep any hawk that impresses this season.

 

[EmeticDonut]

I think you might be wrong here. Leddy is exactly what San Jose needs, their most popular blog has written multiple times this offseason imploring Murray to trade a 1st+(!) for Leddy. No comments on the articles or replies on twitter saying he is crazy, only people saying "awesome but Murray is a joke and would never do it".

Murray has his feet to the fire, his 1st isn't worth as much, has the cap room and has his fans and his blogosphere asking him to do it.

If only blogs had a say in how a GM's do business. And Doug Wilson is the GM of the Sharks.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Because those teams aren't projecting themselves to be bad for that long. If they are, those GMs need to be worried about losing their jobs. If they are worried about losing there jobs they need to make something happen very soon.

Look at Chevy or Tallon as illustrations of that point.

Here, i started a trade board thread for you: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=90152735#post90152735

please go post away in that and see whether anyone else shares your optimism.

 

[Taze em]

If only blogs had a say in how a GM's do business. And Doug Wilson is the GM of the Sharks.

"Blogs have no say in what a GM does, now listen to my unsolicited opinion on a message board". I'm merely pointing out that even San Jose fans are open to the idea.

By the way, just because a fanbase is against a trade doesn't mean a GM will be. There is no expiration date on a San Jose fan's fandom. There is an expiration date on a GM and when your head is on the chopping block, you won't be making a lot of long term decisions. It's a universal truth across all sports. And also Leddy is worth a first round pick, it's not like they are handing over the future of the franchise for nothing. Anyone willing to bet there life that Leddy won't be top 4 defensemen?

 

[Taze em]

Here, i started a trade board thread for you: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=90152735#post90152735

please go post away in that and see whether anyone else shares your optimism.

There has been a Leddy thread over there for a week or so with 10+ teams offering up trades.

Brouwer was worth a 1st. Fact
Byfuglien is worth a 1st 2nd and Morin. Fact.
Rundblad is worth a 2nd. Fact.

All 3rd liners with the Hawks or worse.

Those things actually happened. No fan wants to give up a 1st round pick, ever. Fans like shiny new toys especially on Hockey's FUTURE. Do you realize how rare 23 year old defensemen putting up 31 points are? There are 6 of them I believe. Gardiner. Barrie. Fowler.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

There has been a Leddy thread over there for a week or so with 10+ teams offering up trades.

Brouwer was worth a 1st. Fact
Byfuglien is worth a 1st 2nd and Morin. Fact.
Rundblad is worth a 2nd. Fact.

All 3rd liners with the Hawks or worse.

Those things actually happened. No fan wants to give up a 1st round pick, ever. Fans like shiny new toys especially on Hockey's FUTURE. Do you realize how rare 23 year old defensemen putting up 31 points are? There are 6 of them I believe.

None of your 'comparables' have anything to do with the fact Bowman is dealing from a position of weakness. You continually ignore that fact.

 

[Taze em]

Here are some trades around the league in the last 2 years:
Brad Stuart for a 2nd and a 6th
Andrew Macdonald for a 2nd, 3rd and a prospect (that's close to 1st round value)
Josh Gorges for a 2nd round pick
Jason Garrisson for a 2nd round pick
David Rundblad for a 2nd round pick
Robin Regehr for 2 2nd round picks
Douglas Murray for 2 2nd round picks

None of those players are as young and none of them are as good as Leddy. It really so isn't even close. Those are mostly 30 year old bottom pairing dudes. Some yielded 2 2nds which is almost 1st round value.

Asking for only a 2nd rounder for Leddy is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Taze em]

None of your 'comparables' have anything to do with the fact Bowman is dealing from a position of weakness. You continually ignore that fact.

Right, 2010 cap crunch wasn't a position of weakness at all.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Right, 2010 cap crunch wasn't a position of weakness at all.

it wasn't 9 days away from a cap crunch everyone else in the league was fully aware of...and the hawks had no relief from.

i don't really agree with you re how good a player leddy is - and like i've said many times before, it wouldn't be my own choice to trade him. but i'm resigned to the cap reality and the fact that bowman's trade is coming from a position of weakness.

 

[Taze em]

it wasn't 9 days away from a cap crunch everyone else in the league was fully aware of...and the hawks had no relief from.

i don't really agree with you re how good a player leddy is - and like i've said many times before, it wouldn't be my own choice to trade him. but i'm resigned to the cap reality and the fact that bowman's trade is coming from a position of weakness.

Whatever, agree to disagree. Here is the excerpt from a gushing article all about trading for Nick Leddy from the San Jose Blogger.

But if the Hawks are willing to work out a deal with the Sharks, it goes without saying that the team should pounce on the opportunity. The entire point of the trade would be to free up cap space for Chicago meaning San Jose would not have to part with anyone on their roster. So it'll take some combination of picks and prospects and while it might hurt to give up a 1st rounder in the deep 2015 draft, the odds of the Sharks selecting someone as good as Leddy are slim and, again, Leddy is still young enough that it's reasonable to expect him to be a top-four staple for the next decade and possibly even a legitimate first-pairing defenseman in his prime.

It isn't often that you have a chance to acquire an established 23-year-old puck-moving defenseman who meets your franchise's biggest need without having to give up a single roster player but the Sharks could have the opportunity to do just that here. One of the advantages of operating significantly below the cap for the first time in years is that the Sharks can now take advantage of other teams having cap trouble rather than be under the cap crunch themselves.

No disagreement from commenters, links to the blog on another website we can't quote and no disagreement. How crazy of me to agree with the oppositions own fanbase and writers. Maybe it's because I look at these things from the analytical side of things that our valuations are so different. Because Leddy is wayyyy up there in Corsi, Corsi Rev, counting stats, zone exits, zone entries etc. those stats have been shown to have weak correlation to Quality of Competition which is Leddys only knock(meaning they should hold even if he is moved into a teams top4).

By the way UsernameWasTaken, saw you posted this question on the Sharks board, one person said hell no and then 2 more said yes they would do it after you'd already deemed it ridiculous. A+.

 

[Hawkaholic]

No idea where anybody would get that idea.

I was saying he was valuable to our team, not another team...pretty big difference.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Which would make things tight. Doesn't mean we cant keep one of Oduya/Leddy/Versteeg. Between the cap's projected raise and possibly trading away Bickell and Sharp, we'll be fine.

I'd much rather keep Bickell and Sharp over any of the other 3, especially if Leddys play continues to go sideways.

 

[hisgirlfriday]

No offense UWT, but I hope Taze Em wins this argument.

The idea of Leddy not returning better than what the Hawks gave up for Rundblad would be pretty obnoxious.

 

[Nothingman*]

No offense UWT, but I hope Taze Em wins this argument.

The idea of Leddy not returning better than what the Hawks gave up for Rundblad would be pretty obnoxious.

The main reason that would happen is the Hawks are in a bad position. In most of these other trades Taze mentioned the team holding that player was not up against the cap. There is a cavern of difference in negotiation power.

 

[Taze em]

The main reason that would happen is the Hawks are in a bad position. In most of these other trades Taze mentioned the team holding that player was not up against the cap. There is a cavern of difference in negotiation power.

Here's why Stan still has more negotiating power than you all are thinking: He doesn't HAVE to trade Leddy.

If I'm Stan I call Detroit and work out a Roszival for 7th round pick type deal.
and/or
I call Nashville and offer something similar for Versteeg.
and/or
I make it clear I'm prepared to start the season with 22
and/or
I call NYI (or whoever) and make a deal for Oduya
and/or
Any number of other deals involving morin, smith, Shaw,Bickell, Sharp whoever.

You can go back and dictate to San Jose or whoever that I'm not taking anything less than a 1st for a Leddy, I have other moves to fix the team.

Like the San Jose article I excerpted said, productive, stat darling 23 year old PMD go on the market NEVER. This is your shot at one, take it or leave it. If I don't get value, I'll make my move elsewhere

Does that sound like you are in a position of weakness? Not to me.

This is essentially what Stan has been doing all summer, I guarantee it. He's had discussions with tons of teams on a lot of people on our roster because it provides him the leverage he needs when he negotiates on deadlime with the team he eventually wants to deal with for the player he wants to deal.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

The main reason that would happen is the Hawks are in a bad position. In most of these other trades Taze mentioned the team holding that player was not up against the cap. There is a cavern of difference in negotiation power.

The Hawks were in a good position and gave up a 2nd for Rundblad.

Other teams would be in a good position now and Leddy would fetch.....?

 

[BobbyJet]

If Leddy is moved at all I'd consider it a mistake outside of equal value at a position of need. But my views are well established on this matter.

and even then I'd be pissed. Leddy needs another year to prove his value, and Stan needs to get creative to get us over this bump.

 

[Ace Rothstein]

The Hawks were in a good position and gave up a 2nd for Rundblad.

I think most on here would say that wasn't one of Stan's best moves.

 

[Ace Rothstein]

This is essentially what Stan has been doing all summer, I guarantee it. He's had discussions with tons of teams on a lot of people on our roster because it provides him the leverage he needs when he negotiates on deadlime with the team he eventually wants to deal with for the player he wants to deal.

Do you think if one of those other teams obliged that Stan wouldn't have already made the move? The fact that a trade hasn't happened yet tells me that Stan doesn't have as many options as he thought he would have.