Shipachyov leaves Vegas for KHL, warns other Russians about going abroad

[Nino33]

Russian Hockey Federations has adopted a rule - if a prospect wants to move abroad, he has to pay a financial compensation to his Russian club.

Sounds like something that could/likely would result in the best prospects just leaving the country even earlier (maybe age 14-16) to play in NA.....is Russia really going to make teenage kids pay to be able to leave the country?

 

[vorky]

Sounds like something that could/likely would result in the best prospects just leaving the country even earlier (maybe age 14-16) to play in NA.....is Russia really going to make teenage kids pay to be able to leave the country?

When the CHL/USHL clubs are not able to pay, someone has to

 

[Zine]

It's too bad he couldn't give it a bit longer try. He may live to regret that.
Yes going to the AHL is not 1st choice however not all NHL players are "Silver spoons". Those who go directly to the NHL and not spending any time in the AHL first.

It reminds me of myself. Years ago I went to a recruitment session for working in the film industry. We were told that everyone wants to work in film and if we wanted it bad enough we would be prepared to crawl over broken glass.
I wasn't prepared to do that at the time. Others were. I sometimes wonder what other doors would have opened had I made that commitment.

The difference is those future employers were straight up and honest from the beginning. They let you know you’d have to work your way up from the bottom.

This didn’t happen with Shipachyov. The Vegas GM told him he’d be given a significant role on the team from the get go. So after uprooting his life from half-way across the globe he finds out the Vegas GM lied to him. The GM is a predatory schmuck.

But, ultimately, Shipachyov was stupid not to get those promises written into his contract. Business is business.

 

[Fantomas]

"Russian players should think ten times before leaving for abroad, it's different from what the clubs and agents tell you.""

Needed to be said.

 

[Butch 19]

Needed to be said.

Right now, how many other Russian players are going thru a similar situation?

Needed to be said.

 

[mouser]

But, ultimately, Shipachyov was stupid not to get those promises written into his contract. Business is business.

Teams aren't allowed to write "promises" like that into NHL contracts.

 

[Oh Baby!]

It's a very strange situation. His agent is Petr Svoboda, who's very experienced both as a player and as an agent. Either Svoboda did an extremely poor job of informing his client about the possible outcomes of signing that contract, or Ship is the sort of fellow who brushes off the possibility of failure until it hits him like a ton of bricks, then blames other people.

whoa, this explains a lot right here.
he botched the Sobotka thing pretty bad...

 

[jvr32]

Shipachyov gets by far the biggest blame for this farce. Why did he sign that deal with Vegas? Why not a deal with full NMC? Dadonov signed with Florida a 3 year 12 million deal without even before establishing himself in the league and got NMC (lists 10 teams he can be traded to). Why not with Shipachyov? He had even better pedigree than Dadonov. Surely he could take a pay cut to make it happen in another team if he was so uncertain to begin with. Probably teams knew he wasn't going to work out in NA and didn't want him. Not so many were even interested about him when he was looking for a trade from Vegas. And now he's traumatized because... he made bad decisions himself.

 

[RossiyaSport]

My basic belief is there should be around 10 premium Russian players in the NHL and no others in NA. This should be the goal.

If you are a top player and can make 7+ million a year the NHL is a good gig. For most other players the money is nothing special. There is also a lot of wear and tear on the body because of the small ice and crazy long schedule.

On top of this they have to live in a country that has a crazy amount of Russophobia eminating from the establishment including the hockey msm. Russia is basically in a golden age with sky high patriotism etc. Imagine coming here and seeing ridiculous propaganda like "Russia is a horrible place full of horrible people where nothing good ever happens". US and Canadian players that go to the KHL don't have to deal with even a 1/100th of that kind of thing.

Another issue is how sports in the West are used for social agendas, social engineering. This kind of thing is non existent in Russian sports and as these agendas become more aggressive its turning more players off.

The problem with Russian kids coming over before finishing developing in the Russian style of hockey has been well documented. The NHL gms seem to be hip to this now and are avoiding Russian players that go to the chl except outlier physical specimans like Sergechyov and Andrei Svechnikov. What they then do is pressure players who avoided chl to come over after being drafted because they some how think that will avoid the problem. Eventually they would seemingly evolve again and realize doing that is no better.

So a RU player coming here is for most not a bed of roses and I think this is gradually correcting itself.

 

[Nino33]

On top of this they have to live in a country that has a crazy amount of Russophobia eminating from the establishment including the hockey msm. Russia is basically in a golden age with sky high patriotism etc. Imagine coming here and seeing ridiculous propaganda like "Russia is a horrible place full of horrible people where nothing good ever happens". US and Canadian players that go to the KHL don't have to deal with even a 1/100th of that kind of thing.

Russian players in NA don't deal with the "ridiculous propaganda" you claim (that's ridiculous Russian propaganda) & NA players have commented on dealing with the lack of minority/women's rights among other things (like not being paid); you think NA players don't notice the constant anti-NA sentiment from Russian media? I suspect you'd just call such reality "Russiaphobia" too

Another issue is how sports in the West are used for social agendas, social engineering. This kind of thing is non existent in Russian sports and as these agendas become more aggressive its turning more players off.

No, in "the West" sports are a way to make a living, they're entertainment, they're a business...the sports and social agenda/engineering thing is a Russian thing (leftover from communism I'd think)


Shipachyov was never drafted by the NHL and has never played a single game of best-on-best...he was a 30 year old nothing special player outside of the KHL/Russia who didn't honor his contract in NA (and judging by his supporter's comments, he thought himself something special when clearly he's not); Vegas hasn't missed him at all, and he returned to the KHL for a small salary...not sure why any young Russian player would think giving up 4.5 million US for 500K rubles was anything but stupid

 

[mouser]

Shipachyov gets by far the biggest blame for this farce. Why did he sign that deal with Vegas? Why not a deal with full NMC? Dadonov signed with Florida a 3 year 12 million deal without even before establishing himself in the league and got NMC (lists 10 teams he can be traded to). Why not with Shipachyov? He had even better pedigree than Dadonov. Surely he could take a pay cut to make it happen in another team if he was so uncertain to begin with. Probably teams knew he wasn't going to work out in NA and didn't want him. Not so many were even interested about him when he was looking for a trade from Vegas. And now he's traumatized because... he made bad decisions himself.

Shipachyov was not allowed to have a NMC or NTC in his contract. In fact, Vegas tried to include a NTC in the original contract with Shipachyov and the NHL rejected that contract. Vegas and Ship had to file a second contract without a NTC/NMC that the NHL then approved.

Dadonov and Shipachyov were different types of UFA's. Dadonov was a Group 3 UFA, able to have an NMC or NTC. Shipachyov was a Draft-Related UFA. Only Group 3 UFA's can have NMC/NTC clauses.

 

[LeHab]

Since an official NTC/NMC was not allowed, could he have signed a two-way contract where he is paid more in AHL than NHL? In this case a player requests a ridiculous amount of money to play in AHL making very unlikely a trip down for any extended time. Trade is still possible.

 

[dechire]

Since an official NTC/NMC was not allowed, could he have signed a two-way contract where he is paid more in AHL than NHL? In this case a player requests a ridiculous amount of money to play in AHL making very unlikely a trip down for any extended time. Trade is still possible.

He could ask. The team would laugh and say no.

 

[MisterNoItAll]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass, Ship. Weak player. He was invisible in his short time in the NHL. The facts are heavily stacked against his arguments. Lots of Russians both past and present have had great success in the NHL, and Vegas is doing extremely well without him - they're a playoff team as it stands. So, whatever he says otherwise, has no relevance.

 

[Confucius]

Sounds like Vegas was better than even the GM thought they’d be, and ship wasn’t needed afterall.

 

[Fantomas]

Funny how Ship leaves quietly after being treated like garbage, barely says a word, gives Vegas back all the money including the bonus and some people still trash him.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

for those complaining, how is this any different than what Tampa did?

 

[Kimi]

He could ask. The team would laugh and say no.

Why would they?

If they had a handshake agreement that he'd be a first team player, as due to the NHL rules they couldn't put anything (NMC) in the contract to directly ensure it, why wouldn't they also be willing to effectively create one by giving him a massive pay increase in the AHL to force them to keep him on the main roster?

If they turn him down, then they are saying their handshake means nothing.

 

[dechire]

Why would they?

If they had a handshake agreement that he'd be a first team player, as due to the NHL rules they couldn't put anything (NMC) in the contract to directly ensure it, why wouldn't they also be willing to effectively create one by giving him a massive pay increase in the AHL to force them to keep him on the main roster?

If they turn him down, then they are saying their handshake means nothing.

What is the benefit for the team ? There isn't one. So why would they even consider it ?

 

[Kimi]

What is the benefit for the team ? There isn't one. So why would they even consider it ?

They've already promised to play him on the main roster, and that was a condition of him signing. The only reason not to do it is if they plan on breaking their promise. By not doing it, they are saying that they are intending on breaking their word.

The team does not benefit from a higher AHL salary; but they also would not benefit from a clause saying "we will keep you on the NHL roster", which is what they were willing to promise the player in the first place. To both promise an NHL spot and refuse the AHL salary is paradoxical.

 

[dechire]

They've already promised to play him on the main roster, and that was a condition of him signing. The only reason not to do it is if they plan on breaking their promise. By not doing it, they are saying that they are intending on breaking their word.

The team does not benefit from a higher AHL salary; but they also would not benefit from a clause saying "we will keep you on the NHL roster", which is what they were willing to promise the player in the first place. To both promise an NHL spot and refuse the AHL salary is paradoxical.

I think you're overvaluing promises which are actually worth absolutely nothing.

 

[LadyStanley]

Funny how Ship leaves quietly after being treated like garbage, barely says a word, gives Vegas back all the money including the bonus and some people still trash him.

Incorrect. He repaid (large, like more than 90) % of signing bonus but kept all the salary earned (excluding taxes and other standard deductions that get taken out).

 

[Kimi]

I think you're overvaluing promises which are actually worth absolutely nothing.

You're missing the entire point I was making.

 

[Fantomas]

Incorrect. He repaid (large, like more than 90) % of signing bonus but kept all the salary earned (excluding taxes and other standard deductions that get taken out).

For the entire year?

 

[LadyStanley]

For the entire year?

Salary earned, IOW just the weeks he was in the league.