Value of: Shea Weber to TOR

[Zorro]

I’m a habs fan and while obviously TO would love to have a Weber, his contract is the deterrent here. The only way this trade happen is if we’re not getting full value, that is 25% retained, plus some prospects. And at that point we my as well shop him to the rest of the league and see what we can get. If I was TO I wouldn’t do the trade unless they can get Weber on the cheap...give the upcoming contracts they need to dish out.

 

[Boud]

I'd like to have Weber, but he's just not worth that contract though. Montreal would have to retain like, 25% of his salary to make it work.

Brown, Lilegren, a 1st and a 3rd for Weber(25% retained)

BAM

You get a #1D at decent salary IMO you have to give up more than that and there's no way Montreal would trade Weber unless they got a solid piece to build around and that isn't Brown or Liljegren.

If you're Montreal logically the only thing that makes sense is to trade Weber for a #1C or a potential #1C or else another potential #1D and Liljegren is not there.

I'm not saying the offer is terrible but Toronto's 1rst will be a couple spots before Montreal's 2nd if the trends keep up. At that point you lose your best D for a middle 6 forward and a prospect and that just doesn't make any sense from a team building perspective.

Defensemen are in high demand right now, a #1D is probably the hardest thing to acquire.

That being said, I don't think Montreal and Toronto are the best trade partners. Leafs are not going to be wiling to give up one of their good young forwards and the Habs won't trade Weber for an underrwhelming return while retaining after they traded Subban for him. Other teams might be better suited to make it happen.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Y'all were crazy to trade Subban for him to begin with.

 

[Legion34]

What would montreal want? I don’t think we can afford his cap hit either but just out of curiousity....

 

[firstemperor]

You get a #1D at decent salary IMO you have to give up more than that and there's no way Montreal would trade Weber unless they got a solid piece to build around and that isn't Brown or Liljegren.

If you're Montreal logically the only thing that makes sense is to trade Weber for a #1C or a potential #1C or else another potential #1D and Liljegren is not there.

That's probably why this trade won't work. Not only do the Leafs need the Habs to retain on Weber but we're not giving up much more than what the poster you replied to proposed...certainly not Marner, Nylander.

Weber may net you a ROR, Duchene....but not much else. We would have had more interest in Subban....a new-age defenseman that can skate and play defense. With Weber, your getting someone who may be strong defensively but doesn't provide much ability in terms of breakouts/moving the puck which is critical in today's NHL- especially at his salary and when your talking in the context of actual #1D. We'd have to shelter him with a high-end PMD to maximize his worth on any top-pairing.

Not a top 20 defenseman anymore? Maybe you can argue he is not a top 10 but he is most definitely a top 20 and he's in many peoples top 10. The contract is not monstrous when you consider he does not play those last 3 years at $1M. So with Weber, it's $7.86M from the age of 32-37.

Leafs just signed Marleau from age 38-40 at $6.25M and some people are worried about Weber from 32-37 at $7.86M

He really isn't a top 20D anymore. To be a top 20D (or really, a #1D) in today's NHL, you need to be a plus defender and have plus offensive skills/creativity. He's honestly been a net-negative in terms of skating the puck out/break outs which exacerbates some of the Habs issues in terms of scoring/offensive creativity- at least in part (definitely not the major or sole reason).

He's an old-age defenseman......when you have younger defenseman who many consider to be emerging #1D's who can do a bit of everything- move the puck, pinch in for offense, and provide high-end level defense both ways.

He's a good player and probably a #1B at best. But he's not a #1A anymore.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Just ridiculous to think the Leafs would even want Weber. That cap this year and the never ending contract. You realize there is a salary cap in the NHL.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's not the worst contract at all, but it's simply too much for the Leafs with all the other ones they will have to pay, coming up very soon. Y'all would have to retain/take a contract coming back, for it to happen.

Not so sure I agree we have to retain salary. I think when multiple teams line-up for a guy like Weber, the Habs don't have to retain salary based on supply and demand.

 

[Leafsmann]

Leafs can't afford weber without him being retained for at least 25%, or you take back lupul (UFA to be) and horton's contract + decent prospects/picks.

 

[Trapper]

I’m a habs fan and while obviously TO would love to have a Weber, his contract is the deterrent here. The only way this trade happen is if we’re not getting full value, that is 25% retained, plus some prospects. And at that point we my as well shop him to the rest of the league and see what we can get. If I was TO I wouldn’t do the trade unless they can get Weber on the cheap...give the upcoming contracts they need to dish out.

Montreal would have to retain and the deal would be for picks/prospects (not Matthews,Nylander,Marner etc.) so the Habs can start a rebuild. You aren't getting the Subban/Weber return at this stage (well not from us). That ship has sailed. If that doesn't work for Montreal then nothing else works for the Leafs.

 

[Captain97]

I stopped reading this thread after page one thinking holy f*** you people are stupid. Weber isn't in the top 20 dmen anymore? he finished 6th in norris voting last year, so obviously he is still top 10. His contract is expensive? Under 8 million a year for a top 10 player in his position is not a lot. Term term Term to those who don't know weber will either retire or go on LTIR once his salary drops to 1 mil a year all retirement penalties go to nashville if he plays 2 or 3 more years.

But I guess the leafs are a God tier team now because they are having a hot start. They are good, I think they finish second in the atlantic behind tampa, but to think weber wouldn't make the leafs an amazingly better team would be ludicrous.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

Y'all were crazy to trade Subban for him to begin with.

Blame Bergevin and his team of idiots. I still can't believe Subban isn't a Hab anymore..

 

[Holymakinaw]

But I guess the leafs are a God tier team now because they are having a hot start. They are good, I think they finish second in the atlantic behind tampa, but to think weber wouldn't make the leafs an amazingly better team would be ludicrous.

I don't think there are any serious Leaf fans who wouldn't agree that Weber would make them a LOT better a team. But we're already at the cap, and we have MAJOR raises to pay soon, to our three up & coming superstar players. So Weber is just a pipe dream for us. We can't fit his contract in.

If we trade Marleau? Then maybe. But that's extremely doubtful to happen.

I'd love Weber on the Leafs. Maybe if we can trade JVR to someone else for futures, we can fit him in.......

 

[Pi]

This is actually something I am concerned about.

Shea Weber is not the type of defenseman the Leafs need, he doesn't fit our up tempo fast skating team. Babcock loves him but he's not the right fit for this team. The good news is that the Habs would never trade Weber to Toronto so we'll be fine.

No disrespect, he's a good defenseman and makes the team better but I am not sure he's the D the Leafs are looking for.

Leafs need Subban/Doughty type #1D.

 

[Drytoast]

Y'all were crazy to trade Subban for him to begin with.

Not one Habs fan I've talked too is happy about that trade...

I think they know this.

 

[firstemperor]

This is actually something I am concerned about.

Shea Weber is not the type of defenseman the Leafs need, he doesn't fit our up tempo fast skating team. Babcock loves him but he's not the right fit for this team. The good news is that the Habs would never trade Weber to Toronto so we'll be fine.

No disrespect, he's a good defenseman and makes the team better but I am not sure he's the D the Leafs are looking for.

Leafs need Subban/Doughty type #1D.

Pretty much what I've been trying to say in a eloquent and non-antagonizing way. We basically need a legitimate #1D who can help carry a pairing regardless of their partner...and who would be a upgrade on Gardiner, Rielly.

And to be consistent, I don't think Gardiner and Rielly are #1D.

 

[Pi]

I stopped reading this thread after page one thinking holy f*** you people are stupid. Weber isn't in the top 20 dmen anymore? he finished 6th in norris voting last year, so obviously he is still top 10. His contract is expensive? Under 8 million a year for a top 10 player in his position is not a lot. Term term Term to those who don't know weber will either retire or go on LTIR once his salary drops to 1 mil a year all retirement penalties go to nashville if he plays 2 or 3 more years.

But I guess the leafs are a God tier team now because they are having a hot start. They are good, I think they finish second in the atlantic behind tampa, but to think weber wouldn't make the leafs an amazingly better team would be ludicrous.

Why isn't he making the Habs "amazingly" better? I am sorry but outside of an extremely hard shot, he brings nothing to the Leafs offensively. He can't be relied upon to skate with the puck, he can't be relied upon to join the rush.

Weber is a much better version of Dion Phaneuf. Hard shot, good on the PP, physical.

Leafs need a transition type D. If the Habs had Subban, the Leafs would be calling the Habs 24/7.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Unless 50% is retained nope.

 

[Legion34]

The problem isn’t the player. It’s the contract and questions of how he will age. Phaneuf (who is no Webber) was solid top 3’D who was signed until what 35? We gave him up for Lindberg and a 2nd. At the age of 30.

Weber is on the hook until 40 with a higher cap hit. The league is going toward speed an skill. I would love to have him for like 3’years. But then what?

If we spend 35 on Kadri marleau and the big 3. We will have 7 in goalies and buyouts. That’s 42.

Add 22 for rielly Weber gards and Z. That’s 66. Then have 7 in hyman,martin, brown. That’s 73 with 3 d and 4 forwards to sign.

Would be tough. What would montreal want?

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Gardiner + Liljegren + 1st

 

[Kent Nilsson]

You said it would cost us one of our future young players who will take up cap-space. That's primarily the big 3. And, I mean, what else would you want, a package of Liljegren and Brown?

Weber for Liljegren + Brown ? Done.

 

[LeafGm]

Even if Montreal was willing to trade him to Toronto for nothing except "future considerations", I still wouldn't make the deal.

I mean, if he had a year or two left on his deal, then maybe there's a fit there. But eight more years at a $7.8M cap hit per season, when he's already 32 years of age, showing signs of decline, and perhaps doesn't have the kind of game suited to excelling in the new NHL?

Hell to the no.

But hey, Habs fans, best of luck dumping that contract off on someone else. It seems impossible, but since the Leafs managed to dump Clarkson & Phaneuf's deals, I guess there's always hope.

 

[Trapper]

Gardiner + Liljegren + 1st

Leafs aren't doing any of this.
Weber, Tanev, Muzzin all make the Leafs better yes.
But we still aren't in a position to deplete a not entirely stocked organization to make these moves.
We need Gardiner in addition to another D.
We need a young RHD because we are seriously lacking in that department.
We are lacking in organizational depth down the middle. We are still in that phase. That's why we sign Marleau and Hainsey. Because it doesn't deplete us.
Eventually we will be in a position to make this kind of move but not today. Let us make the playoffs 2 years in a row before we go sending top prospects, 1st round picks etc. We've been good in the month of October, but it's only October.

 

[deletethis]

He has been a great NHL defenseman but he would be a square in a round hole on this current Leafs' team. His point shot would be wasted in Toronto. Montreal should call Philadelphia. Philly has a history of overpaying for players like this.

 

[njdevil26]

I would say the Leafs would be insane to take on that contract... but doesn't Nashville get stuck with the recapture penalties regardless of where he is when he retires or stops playing?

 

[LeafGrief]

If we could have Shea Weber for free, I would take him. He would obviously make our team better this year and next year, plus we could fit him in without making drastic changes. But in years 3-8 on that contract? Not only does it mess with our cap structure, but the guy is going to slow down a lot. We can't afford an $8m guy on the back-end unless he is going to be elite, and I certainly wouldn't put any money on Weber being elite in years 3-8. If we could have him for free, the chance at cups in the next two years would be enough of an incentive that I'd be willing to pull the trigger and then try to figure out an escape route once the time comes.

But of course Weber isn't going to be free. He's still a very good hockey player and the Habs are going to want to get some value for him if they want to move him. If we're paying something like Liljegren and a 1st (I don't care if you don't think that is enough or think it's an overpay, it's just an example to make a point), then the issues of year 3-8 compound even further. The Leafs are just opening up their cup window and have stars on ELCs. We have the opportunity to contend for 10 years here. Why on earth would we go all in on year one and two with a deal that really hurts years 3-8? If Liljegren and our 1st this year turn into impact players we could have a team that is even better than the one we have now. So I ask, why would we trade two years for six years? Shea Weber and his contract do not fit in with the Leafs timeline. If he had two years left, we'd give you a very, very good package. But he has 8 years, so a deal just isn't going to work out.