Shattenkirk and Free Agency

[cardinalnation]

What? Just for clarification, did you say Pietrangelo was carried by Bouwmeester in the WCF?

I shouldn't have the word round in there. They both were pretty mediocre this ROUND. Bow carried Pie in this years playoffs. Or didn't you watch the games?

 

[Oberyn]

Either Shatty or Pie HAVE to be traded this off season ifBlues have any hope of adding skill upfront. To me both players are highly overrated. Shatty has big offense but is easily the worst defender on the team blueline wise. Pie is strong defensively but horrid offensively and was flatout carried by Bow this playoff round. With the league moving towards puck carrying, offensive defenders Pie is just not as good as Blues fans want to pretend moving forward. Pie would bring a bigger return though i think with teams like Edmonton, Buffalo, Calgary and Vancouver in desparate need of a veteran presence like Pie. He also provides more money than Shatty to improve up front I would go the route of "who can we get the best deal for".

Your judgement on Pietrangelo is laughable, even more so when you think Bouwmeester carried that line. Bouwmeester is terrible and was awful throughout the entire playoffs.

 

[Majorityof1]

Either Shatty or Pie HAVE to be traded this off season ifBlues have any hope of adding skill upfront. To me both players are highly overrated. Shatty has big offense but is easily the worst defender on the team blueline wise. Pie is strong defensively but horrid offensively and was flatout carried by Bow this playoff round. With the league moving towards puck carrying, offensive defenders Pie is just not as good as Blues fans want to pretend moving forward. Pie would bring a bigger return though i think with teams like Edmonton, Buffalo, Calgary and Vancouver in desparate need of a veteran presence like Pie. He also provides more money than Shatty to improve up front I would go the route of "who can we get the best deal for".

Shattenkirk vs Pietrangelo is night and day. Petro is clearly more valuable. Its not even a contest. And he is signed to a very friendly contract. Who knows what Shattenkirk will sign for. Petro would bring in a ton more assets, sure. But we would be trading away the far superior player. Petro was our best player this playoffs. Shattenkirk was a defensive blackhole. Petro played the 30 absolute toughest minutes every night and did it with relatively few mistakes. Any other D on the team playing those minutes and we give up an extra goal or more a game. Pietrangelo is the single most important Blue, and I'd be done as a fan if we traded him unless we got an absolute ridiculous offer. More so than even Tarasenko.

And Pietrangelo is not bad offensively. As ES, its already been pointed out he is right there with Shattenkirk. This was his worst year as a point-producer in a while, and he was still a top 30 D-man for ppg. He is not given the favorable situations of the big offensive D-men either. He carries the defensive load for this team for half the game and still pitches in offensively. When he went down, nobody else could do what he did this year. Maybe PArayko can one day, but not today. Today we trade Shatty.

 

[Majorityof1]

I shouldn't have the word round in there. They both were pretty mediocre this ROUND. Bow carried Pie in this years playoffs. Or didn't you watch the games?

Wow, just wow. No offense, but maybe you should stick to watching baseball. That assessment could not be more far off.

 

[BlueDream]

Sorry to pile on but it's too funny to not share. I still remember that time when KirkOut jokingly posted that Bouwmeester was this team's emotional leader and I'm fairly certain this was the guy that went along with it as if it was 100% true. That still cracks me up.

 

[The Grouch]

I shouldn't have the word round in there. They both were pretty mediocre this ROUND. Bow carried Pie in this years playoffs. Or didn't you watch the games?

I must have missed all of the games. Based on what I saw Pietrangelo was the Blues' best defenseman in the playoffs and it wasn't particularly close.

 

[Venthon]

My goodness, somebody thinks Pietrangelo is the problem for the Blues? Bouwmeester could be blamed for at LEAST a goal a game, yet AP is the issue defensively? That takes some mental gymnastics. This is coming from a Blackhawks fan, soooooo......yeah. That guy is crazy, right?

 

[Borderbluesfan]

Petro has been solid both on offense and defense. We need to get Bouw off the pairing with Petro, been saying this all year; they don't look good together. They both have the same weaknesses that teams can exploit by pressuring them with a heavy forecheck. Petro needs a more defensive minded defenseman on his line. Hopefully, also more physical on defense than Bouw. Bouw can move the puck, but also needs a more physical defenseman next to him than Petro. Together, they both have problems when pressured.

Shattenkirk during the playoffs was a liability. 1A, -4. Another offensive defenseman that can't play defense. We keep Petro, but don't know that we really need to keep Shattenkirk. Bouw needs to move down, if we could unload him, I would but don't know if we can.

 

[Stealth JD]

I shouldn't have the word round in there. They both were pretty mediocre this ROUND. Bow carried Pie in this years playoffs. Or didn't you watch the games?

I could not disagree anymore. But to each his own.

 

[MissouriMook]

I shouldn't have the word round in there. They both were pretty mediocre this ROUND. Bow carried Pie in this years playoffs. Or didn't you watch the games?

In the same sense that Adron Chambers carried the Cardinals to the World Series title in 2011, sure. But I'm not sure I really want to spend any time in THAT alternate universe. Not trying to flame, but I'd be hard pressed to find an example of a less informed opinion on this board.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

question becomes do you trade him in the off-season, or at the deadline next year?

The problem with waiting until the deadline is that you may be tempted to keep him for the playoffs as the Blues did with Backes this year, and the Bolts did with Stamkos. We'd then risk losing him for nothing. But as a pure rental at the deadline, he'd command a 1st and a prospect. I'm sure Armstrong would rather have a deal done prior to entering next season though. Gotta get back a 1st in addition to something else. No more "veteran plus a 3rd" nonsense. Our prospect depth is scary thin.

Most likely before the draft, but off-season certainly.

 

[BuLLeT1291]

I can't even believe someone would entertain the idea of trading Petro instead of Shatty.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Thought I would do a short review of Shattenkirk's stats this year vs his two previous outings. I'll put Pietrangelo's numbers below each category to compare (marked P-ES, P-PP, P-PK)

2015-16 Regular Season:
ES: 72 Games, 16.20 TOI/G, 0.26 G/60, 0.26 A/60, 52.39 CF%, 48.26 HSCF% (-14), 52.91 ZSO%
P-ES: 73 Games, 19.02 TOI/G, 0.22 G/60, 0.78 A/60, 51.05 CF%, 51.64 HSCF% (+18), 46.37 ZSO%

PP: 69 Games, 2.83 TOI/G, 1.84 G/60, 6.15 A/60, 14.13 HSCF/60
P-PP: 70 Games, 2.24 TOI/G, 0.38 G/60, 1.53 A/60, 10.73 HSCF/60

PK: 71 Games, 1.83 TOI/G, 0.0 G/60, 0.46 A/60, 23.06 HSCA/60
P-PK: 72 Games, 3.21 TOI/G, 0.0 G/60, 0.26 A/60, 24.44 HSCA/60

2015-16 Playoffs:
ES: 20 Games, 16.36 TOI/G, 0.18 G/60, 0.37 A/60, 48.98 CF%, 40.48 HSCF% (-24), 63.45 ZSO%
P-ES: 20 Games, 21.82 TOI/G, 0.14 G/60, 0.55 A/60, 47.61 CF%, 50.88 HSCF% (+3), 36.93 ZSO%

PP: 19 Games, 2.64 TOI/G, 0.0 G/60, 7.18 A/60, 16.76 HSCF/60
P-PP: 19 Games, 1.98 TOI/G, 0.0 G/60, 4.78 A/60, 33.48 HSCF/60

PK: 20 Games, 1.02 TOI/G, 0.0 G/60, 0.0 A/60, 29.46 HSCA/60
P-PK: 20 Games, 3.24 TOI/G, 0.0 G/60, 0.0 A/60, 15.74 HSCA/60

2013-14 through 2014-15 Regular Season:
ES: 137 Games, 15.85 TOI/G, 0.19 G/60, 0.75 A/60, 54.78 CF%, 56.12 HSCF% (+89), 56.44 ZSO%
P-ES: 162 Games, 18.23 TOI/G, 0.20 G/60, 0.93 A/60, 52.54 CF%, 51.97 HSCF% (+41), 50.53 ZSO%

PP: 135 Games, 3.44 TOI/G, 1.42 G/60, 5.16 A/60, 19.23 HSCF/60
P-PP: 158 Games, 2.54 TOI/G, 0.45 G/60, 3.89 A/60, 17.64 HSCF/60

PK: 134 Games, 1.06 TOI/G, 0.0 G/60, 0.42 A/60, 15.17 HSCA/60
P-PK: 157 Games, 3.30 TOI/G, 0.0 G/60, 0.12 A/60, 16.77 HSCA/60

2013-14 through 2014-15 Playoffs:
ES: 12 Games, 19.38 TOI/G, 0.26 G/60, 2.06 A/60, 55.40 CF%, 55.13 HSCF% (+8), 53.10 ZSO%
P-ES: 12 Games, 21.37 TOI/G, 0.0 G/60, 0.70 A/60, 58.57 CF%, 57.83 HSCF% (+13), 52.15 ZSO%

PP: 11 Games, 3.84 TOI/G, 0.0 G/60, 2.84 A/60, 18.47 HSCF/60
P-PP: 11 Games, 2.89 TOI/G, 0.0 G/60, 0.0 A/60, 17.01 HSCF/60

PK: 12 Games, 1.83 TOI/G, 0.0 G/60, 12.93 A/60, 12.93 HSCA/60
P-PK: 12 Games, 3.21 TOI/G, 0.0 G/60, 0.0 A/60, 8.30 HSCA/60

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obviously, small sample size caveats apply for all the playoff numbers.

The point here isn't to attempt to directly compare Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk. There really isn't any comparison to be made there. Different players, different usage. Pietrangelo's numbers are just there as a measuring stick of sorts.

The point here is to remind people of what Shattenkirk has historically brought to the table. There's no arguing that Shattenkirk was (uncharacteristically) bad this year. Let's not let recency bias taint our memory of what he's provided in the past, in either the regular season or the playoffs.

 

[SteenMachine]

Easton's point is the main reason I'm afraid to move on from him as quickly as we can. I feel like this was a year the opposing coaches exploited him instead of Hitch doing it to our advantage. His ability to generate a good odd-man rush or break away chances was almost invisible.

However we need a potent power play considering we don't have the same 1-2 punch as a lot of contenders. I don't want our PP to hinge on Parayko's development, that's not fair to him or the team.

Even if Pietro can contribute that's more ice time he has to endure all season. If Bouwmeester continues to decline that's a blue-line presence that's getting weaker for us that will be getting ice time due to lack of a better option. (I dunno why Steen's point shot is off the table if we're taking as many defensive risks with JBow or a young d-man) If we're still banking on inserting rookies into the line up and having them succeed all year long and take that into the post season it's gonna backfire eventually. We need some stability and experience that isn't in physical decline.