Shattenkirk and Free Agency

Blues88

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Apr 27, 2009
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I think he is a mediocre defenseman with excellent puck moving skills who is worth a lot to other teams. Move him for something fantastic (like another Brouwer:rant:) , let parayko be the next big thing, hope Pietrangelo finds his way on the plus side of the plus/minus stat again. Shatty seriously is not that good of a defender. I was pretty frustrated with him during the Chicago series.

The issue of course is that he's a much better defender than you're implying and Parayko isn't even close to filling the offensive gap that Shatty would create if moved. If not for injury last season, its entirely possible Shatty would have been a 55-60 point player last season, and he hasnt skipped a beat this season, even as the secondary scoring has dried up.

No issues with you wanting to move him for an upgrade, but he's a capable defender and a fantastic OFD.
 

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Is this thread too old to continue?

I think Shattery has been our worst player on post-season. It still bit early to give grades, but so far his performance has been hideous.

Don't remember when was that 'news' about Shattery building strenght same gym like Quick, but far I've seen he's so easy to get out of puck, man handle.
Even Fabbri has shown better strenght 1on1 battle situation. Hard to watch him loose every 1on1 battle at d-zone, he is 'living'/depend on his pair and bit dissapointed to realize he's almost dead weight.

His trade value will be dropping down like crazy. Find best stay-at-home D with him and he's okey. He has some skills on o-zone, but he's even worse at d-zone then Erik f Karlsson.
 

TheBluePenguin

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I think Shattery has been our worst player on post-season. It still bit early to give grades, but so far his performance has been hideous.

Don't remember when was that 'news' about Shattery building strenght same gym like Quick, but far I've seen he's so easy to get out of puck, man handle.
Even Fabbri has shown better strenght 1on1 battle situation. Hard to watch him loose every 1on1 battle at d-zone, he is 'living'/depend on his pair and bit dissapointed to realize he's almost dead weight.

His trade value will be dropping down like crazy. Find best stay-at-home D with him and he's okey. He has some skills on o-zone, but he's even worse at d-zone then Erik f Karlsson.

He has lost himself so much money with this Playoff run its not even funny. No way any contender will give hi, a good contract now. The Blues have sucked against the Sharks, but you are completely right Shatty has been our worst Dman every round this year. To think I was one of those who said it would be stupid to trade him for Dourin ...... I look like an idiot now :shakehead
 

Alklha

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His play isn't going to have a huge impact on his trade value, the contract situation is going to cause that. GM's are going to be viewing his last few seasons when evaluating him, and his age is going to be in his favour when they consider this season.

What was the rumor with Drouin?

The Drouin rumours never made any sense when it came to Shattenkirk. The Lightning have a lot already invested in their defense, plus a huge contract to Hedman coming. They weren't going to want Shattenkirk without dumping Carle, and even then they wouldn't want Shattenkirk with the expansion draft around the corner.
 

Brian39

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You're crazy if you think these playoffs are causing Shatty's value to plummet. He is currently 3rd among D men in playoff scoring. He hasn't been playing his best hockey by a long shot, but if that is the worst case scenario, teams will be lining up to heave money at him. I'm not sold that he will deserve the money he gets and I think GMs tend to overvalue offensive contribution from the blueline. But the reality is that offense is the most reliable way to get paid as a D man and UFA D men get paid ridiculous amounts of money.

If the 'black mark' on his resume is being top 5 among his position in playoff scoring 14 months before free agency, he is going to be just fine.
 

sst338d

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You're crazy if you think these playoffs are causing Shatty's value to plummet. He is currently 3rd among D men in playoff scoring. He hasn't been playing his best hockey by a long shot, but if that is the worst case scenario, teams will be lining up to heave money at him. I'm not sold that he will deserve the money he gets and I think GMs tend to overvalue offensive contribution from the blueline. But the reality is that offense is the most reliable way to get paid as a D man and UFA D men get paid ridiculous amounts of money.

If the 'black mark' on his resume is being top 5 among his position in playoff scoring 14 months before free agency, he is going to be just fine.


I agree with this, that it won't really change anything on his next contract for all the reasons above, but I also agree that he has been atrocious this entire playoffs and the Sharks are well aware of it! Evertime he hops over the boards they are licking their chops to get their top line out there.
 

Evocable Manager

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Shattenkirk could still draw a good return. I'd prefer guys that are a decent age and can play now instead of futures but it depends on the team were trading with.
 

STL fan in MN

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Shatty should still be able to provide a good return but I expect Army to sell low like he did with Perron, Stewart and Oshie.

That said, I'm more than fine with Shatty leaving. We won't be able to afford him and he's simply a liability defensively. We may need to add a PP specialist to maintain a good PP (although Petro is decent and Parayko's PP ability is progressing) but Shatty is not worth the money he will command to only be useful on the PP. 5 on 5, he's a liability.
 

Brian39

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Shatty should still be able to provide a good return but I expect Army to sell low like he did with Perron, Stewart and Oshie.

That said, I'm more than fine with Shatty leaving. We won't be able to afford him and he's simply a liability defensively. We may need to add a PP specialist to maintain a good PP (although Petro is decent and Parayko's PP ability is progressing) but Shatty is not worth the money he will command to only be useful on the PP. 5 on 5, he's a liability.

Did we really sell low on Perron or Stewart?

Perron has been traded twice since we got an early 2nd and PRV for him. The first time was for Klinkhammer and a 1st. At the time of the trade that 1st looked like it would be very late, but the Pens hit a tailspin and made it a mid-1st round pick. The next trade was to the Ducks for Hagelin. Hagelin has been great with the Pens, but was brutal this year with the Ducks and had extremely low value at the time. I certainly wouldn't trade more than an early 2nd and a prospect for Hagelin.

Stewart was part of the Miller deal, and it is tough to gauge exactly what value we got for him specifically since there were many parts to that trade. With that said, the Sabres got a 2nd round pick for him last year at the deadline. It's worth noting that the pick is for 2017 on a trade that occurred in 2015, which is quite a bit different than getting an immediate pick. Buffalo won't get an asset from that trade for another year and likely won't see the effect on their roster until 5+ years after the trade. He signed a cheap 1 year contract with Anaheim this year, had a miserable season, and may very well be done in the NHL.

I didn't really like the return for either of those players, but the last few years have shown that we probably got fair value. Neither player has been all that good since leaving the Blues and each has been traded for low value that's relatively similar to what we got. Edmonton got slightly better value for Perron than we did after he had a career year on their team. Had the Pens not gone into free fall after making that trade, the value would have been near identical to what we got for Perron. I think the Pens got less value for him than we did considering Hagelin's contract. I tend to think Kessel is by far the driving force of that line and that Hagelin won't be more than a 2nd/3rd line guy for the next 3 years. I don't think Buffalo got better value than us, even though the Miller trade didn't work out.
 
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STL fan in MN

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Did we really sell low on Perron or Stewart?

(snip)

Yes, I think they did. I would agree that the trade values for both Perron and Stewie have gone down since the Blues traded them but that doesn't change what they were worth at the time. IMO, Perron was worth a bit more than what they got for him.

For Stewie, yeah, his trade is a little harder to gauge since he was packaged with Halak for Miller and Ott (Halak, Stewart, William Carrier, 1st rd pick and 3rd rd pick for Miller and Ott) but IMO, the Blues held onto Stewie way too long as his value plummeted. It seemed obvious to me that he was on the outs and Army kept trying to get more for him as Stewie's value continually declined due to his play and attitude and once he was finally traded, he was little more than a throw in to the deal. That's the way I saw it. If you see it differently, fine. Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Getting out of the weeds for a minute though, my point is that I don't really trust Army when it comes to trades. He seems like an excellent GM when it comes to contracts but trades...eh, not so much IMO. Given Army's trade history, I'm not expecting a big return for Shatty. I would be thrilled if I'm wrong though.
 

Skinnyjimmy08

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right handed puck moving PP types don't grow on trees... teams will be lining up for him in the offseason. Blues will get an unreal return for him
 

Ranksu

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right handed puck moving PP types don't grow on trees... teams will be lining up for him in the offseason. Blues will get an unreal return for him

3rd liner vet, center b-prospect and 3rd round pick.

Army voice "Workhorse, AHL debt and crapshoot. This trade give us more flexibility going forward and fill our needs."
 

ashnathan

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Jimmy Hayes and a 3rd :naughty: I kid I kid.

I know Boston will be fighting tooth and nail to get him, don't really know what they will offer but I'd have to expect it will involve Spooner in some magnitude. Don't know what the primary piece would be though, Krejci 2 years ago maybe but I doubt anyone takes him now after hip surgery again.
 

LetsGoBooze

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I also feel like Detroit somehow ends up with Shatty. I hope we end up with Mantha among other pieces. I would love:

Shatty + Rattie + Our 1st

for

Mantha + Tatar + 16(Bellows)
 

Evocable Manager

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Sweeney said he would be pushing hard for a puck moving defenseman and would be aggressive.
So maybe he pushes hard and we end up with 15th+Spooner+Blue Chipper. Not sure of Blue Chipper.
https://www.nhl.com/news/bruins-want-puck-moving-defenseman/c-280801834?tid=277350296

As for Detroit, Ken Holland wants to get bigger upfront. Considering Svech won't be ready for a couple years, likely we get him and Tatar along with 16th.
If we get 15 or 16, who would we take?
 

Stealth JD

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question becomes do you trade him in the off-season, or at the deadline next year?

The problem with waiting until the deadline is that you may be tempted to keep him for the playoffs as the Blues did with Backes this year, and the Bolts did with Stamkos. We'd then risk losing him for nothing. But as a pure rental at the deadline, he'd command a 1st and a prospect. I'm sure Armstrong would rather have a deal done prior to entering next season though. Gotta get back a 1st in addition to something else. No more "veteran plus a 3rd" nonsense. Our prospect depth is scary thin.
 

TheDizee

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#22 can go. seen enough of him, will never win a cup with his soft d.
 

EastonBlues22

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question becomes do you trade him in the off-season, or at the deadline next year?

The problem with waiting until the deadline is that you may be tempted to keep him for the playoffs as the Blues did with Backes this year, and the Bolts did with Stamkos. We'd then risk losing him for nothing. But as a pure rental at the deadline, he'd command a 1st and a prospect. I'm sure Armstrong would rather have a deal done prior to entering next season though. Gotta get back a 1st in addition to something else. No more "veteran plus a 3rd" nonsense. Our prospect depth is scary thin.
It's a bad idea to be moving out major assets at the deadline when you're a contender.

He needs to be traded this offseason, or re-signed.
 

cardinalnation

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It's a bad idea to be moving out major assets at the deadline when you're a contender.

He needs to be traded this offseason, or re-signed.

Either Shatty or Pie HAVE to be traded this off season ifBlues have any hope of adding skill upfront. To me both players are highly overrated. Shatty has big offense but is easily the worst defender on the team blueline wise. Pie is strong defensively but horrid offensively and was flatout carried by Bow this playoff round. With the league moving towards puck carrying, offensive defenders Pie is just not as good as Blues fans want to pretend moving forward. Pie would bring a bigger return though i think with teams like Edmonton, Buffalo, Calgary and Vancouver in desparate need of a veteran presence like Pie. He also provides more money than Shatty to improve up front I would go the route of "who can we get the best deal for".
 

The Grouch

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Either Shatty or Pie HAVE to be traded this off season ifBlues have any hope of adding skill upfront. To me both players are highly overrated. Shatty has big offense but is easily the worst defender on the team blueline wise. Pie is strong defensively but horrid offensively and was flatout carried by Bow this playoff round. With the league moving towards puck carrying, offensive defenders Pie is just not as good as Blues fans want to pretend moving forward. Pie would bring a bigger return though i think with teams like Edmonton, Buffalo, Calgary and Vancouver in desparate need of a veteran presence like Pie. He also provides more money than Shatty to improve up front I would go the route of "who can we get the best deal for".


What? Just for clarification, did you say Pietrangelo was carried by Bouwmeester in the WCF?
 

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